That explains why the Yanks banned them... maybe at first, but not why the rest of the world did. Britain had a flourishing opium trade (especially with the Chinese) for one, and France wasn't threatened by Chinese railroad workers or Mexican immigrants.

EDIT: You have no real evidence that consumption rates do not change. Like you said, there are no reliable data when drugs are illegal, so we have no way of knowing how many people are only deterred by the law. Once the law is gone, it is quite possible that some people will take up the habit. Just look at the number of people who pop down to Holland simply to take (otherwise) illegal drugs.

Edited by - The Evil Thing on 6/13/2006 11:44:40 AM

TET - erg, i think my post and the guy with the ascii art's post must have gotten mashed together in your memory along with some other posts

re: explosive fireworks. legal (eg off-reservation) fireworks aren't explosive - they may spray sparks, or fly and have a *report* - that is not an explosion, since the device does not fly apart into shrapnel but just spits a plug of clay out the end of the device to create the sound - otherwise there wouldn't be so many whole bottlerockets laying around after the 4th. mortars do explode, but you don't see anyone shooting them at other people - probably because a concealed gun is much more lethal than a fireworks-mortar

an armed society is a polite society - you simply don't see gangs of hoods roaming the street firing rockets into open windows, dropping smoke grenades in mailboxes etc in countries where the victim might retaliate with something a little more lethal than fireworks.

fireworks are a nuisance - YouPeople( excluding the rational ones who agree with me ) seem to think they are the equivalent of the Blitz, setting entire cities ablaze and decimating the population - you're frightened, government-hand-holding lilly-livered Pips hiding behind the skirt of the Public Good, and if you ever came over here i'm sure you would be piddling down your leg in fear for your life from all the fireworks nuts, good grief!

P.S. there's a lot of things i do like about the UK - particularly your contributions to music,television,literature and classic cinema - especially classic cinema; nearly all the great actors in american classics came from england. oh, and your slang is first rate.

i have no idea what a rational anarchist is; i'm pretty damned sure i've never met one though

Edited by - Cold_Void on 6/13/2006 11:47:14 AM

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EDIT: You have no real evidence that consumption rates do not change. Like you said, there are no reliable data when drugs are illegal, so we have no way of knowing how many people are only deterred by the law. Once the law is gone, it is quite possible that some people will take up the habit. Just look at the number of people who pop down to Holland simply to take (otherwise) illegal drugs.

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Fair point. Id argue that those who go to holland to smoke pot probably already do it regardless of legality. And because i dont have any studies at hand im going to have to make a rgument from personal experience, so i cant prove anything. (But it is worth mention).

I am someone who does use mild recreational drugs (Oooooh!) and i am familar with many people who,, 70% of the people i know do. I have been to marches, meeting ect about drugs. I can tell you from all my personal experience there is not one person who let legality be a deciding factor in taking up the habit.

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an armed society is a polite society - you simply don't see gangs of hoods roaming the street firing rockets into open windows, dropping smoke grenades in mailboxes etc in countries where the victim might retaliate with something a little more lethal than fireworks.

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Crime is not a product of how well armed people are, crime is a product of the economic situtation. Alot of people have guns in africa, alot. And alot of africa is war-torn and crime ridden. Because of a economic situation.

Edited by - Ruthtopper on 6/13/2006 12:53:16 PM

nice sweeping generalization there - so i take it you're implying that the entire continent is lawless and poor ? ^_- what about england then, and this guy fawkes thing?

Edited by - Cold_Void on 6/13/2006 8:55:38 PM

Visit the ninth circle of Hull and you could be forgiven for thinking such a thing.

Anyway, whether or not the entire continent is lawless and poor is purely academic. There is a general pattern between poverty and crime. Just look at parts of India.

As for developed countries, you'll notice that that there appear to be crime rates where people feel they can get away with anything. Certainly, the "Innocent until proven guilty" mentality massively favours the defendent for obvious reasons. The trouble is that if we get rid of it many more criminals will go to prison, but many more innocents will too. Is it worth it? That's where ethics and morality begin.

You know what, you're right. Let's legalise everything, let's not make anything illegal, let's not ban anything. But at the same time, let's get rid of public healthcare. If nothing is banned then that means people should accept total responsibility for their actions and not require the state to help them. If some moron blows off most of his or her hand by doing something stupid with fireworks, too bad, he or she will have to make it on their own somehow. If someone sets their house on fire because a firework misfired, don't bother sending out firefighters unless it's a threat to state property.

You can't sue for damages either because by not having any government regulations, the courts shouldn't waste their time. You'd just have to sort it out yourselves.

Edited by - Balthazar Furious on 6/14/2006 11:50:44 PM

Just remove the safety labels from everything and the problem will solve itself...

Hmmm- would that include individual safety labels for indiviually wrapped peices of cheese? And,no, unfortunatley- it's not a joke. Even when the (pseudo) cheese comes in packs of twenty, or thereabouts. How ( politically insensitive comment here) do you have to be not to know that they are wrapped in plastic?! Eh, maybe they come from a place that has no form of cheese nor any sort of substitute.Or, no plastic of any sort. A place called 'Elbonia ' springs to mind, for some odd reason...

The point is, why should self inflicted stupidity be protected for any reason, in any given Law and Values system? There was a tounge in cheek proposal to solve the 'War On Drugs' during the Reagan administration- give all the cokeheads and speedfreaks a pound of their favorite, a fast car, and stay off the roads for around a week- the problem( so it was said) will solve itself.

I would submit that instead of incarceration, punishment, and eventual "Rehabilitation" these idiots should be required to think beyond themselves, as in 'How are you gonna repair this, or make it right?'

For your approval, a few job titles, and duty descriptions:
Radioactive Waste handler - required to handle any and all radwaste by hand- including stuff that'll insure you don't survive much longer than your current assignment. Leads to Radioactive Waste Management specialty
Medical Treatment Plausibility Analyst- required to pick one current plauge type disease and be infected with it.If you survive the disease and the proposed treatment, then we'll take you apart to find out how. Hey- several million lab rats cant be wrong, eh?
Crash Test Dummy type II- might P.O. the mannequins a bit, but I doubt we'll ever hear from them- and here's the chance to be turned into varicolored goo in a 'hot' ride
Opinion Poll Tester- The successful candidate will be a 'people' person, and test the poll's results before a group of those opposed to the results of the poll, no matter where in the world the poll was taken and certainly with no regard for where the testing is done.
Radioactive Waste Management Specialist- Requires one to live in a glass and lead lined cave with several thousand liquid tons of the goop. Duties include expanding storage facilities with provided tools- a stick and a spoon...
Caliber Analyst- This specialty requires immense intestinal fortitude, as the position mandates the ability to be able to report the effects of different ballistic calibers.Recommended for gangsters of the worst sort, along with rampant sociopaths.

Please feel free to add your own....

whats your point?

re stupid people: 2 of the 6 deaths in a year long cpsc fireworks study were two young males firing fireworks from a moving car- one of the fireworks stayed inside the car after they launched it and set the other fireworks on fire, then the rest of the interior combusted. they were burned to death. its tragic, but lemmings will be lemmings

whats[sic my point? Yes, let's forget the people who died as a result of stupidity and human nature. And it was eight deaths, not six.

1. A four-year old child was struck in the face by a firework while attending a party at her house. She was standing on her porch, about 150 feet away from the fireworks. She was removed from life support two days later.

2. Several people at a 4th of July party had decided to make a homemade firework made from several consumer fireworks. They lit it and when it went off, the shrapnel travelled 60 or 70 feet and struck a 45 year old male in the chest. He was taken to hospital where he later died.

3. A juvenile tossed firecrackers in the mail slot of a house, causing a fire. The occupant, a 76 year old woman, was overcome by the smoke. She was transported to hospital, and never regained conciousness. She died 11 days later.

4. An 80 year old man died from injuries from a residential fire. The cause? A large artillary shell type firework had been lit and thrown into his home. Apparantely according to news sources, fourth juveniles were identified in this case.

But no, go ahead and state cases where stupid people killed themselves, because it won't help your arguement to give the full side of the story. I wonder if you would feel the same way if that had been your four year old daughter, or your 76 year old mother?

Edited by - Balthazar Furious on 6/15/2006 2:28:05 PM

Edited by - Balthazar Furious on 6/15/2006 2:29:03 PM

well lets just lock everyone in individual 6"X6" polycarbonate boxes so they can live forever with no fear of death from fire, drowning, collision, electrocution, suffocation, animal attack, and bird flu - then everyone will be perfectly happy and content living the life of a gerbil

Your strongest arguement is just to respond with absurd statements. This proves you don't have a case. Perhaps you've heard of the age-old question? Would you sacrifice even one person for the happiness of humanity? In your case, the answer seems to be yes, in fact, so you can enjoy seeing things go bang, you're willing to indirectly sacrifice 4-8 peoples' lives per year.

Edited by - Balthazar Furious on 6/16/2006 1:26:32 AM

there are stores in pa that sell fire works but if you live in pa you cant go to them you have be a nj citizen to enter these stores and have id ready lol.

Balthazar, that's why most stopped bothering posting in the thread - it's impossible to discuss this subject with Cold Void - he doesn't appear to listen and reason with others contributions - only create figures, object to any reasonable arguements and points. Makes a discussion pointless

Edited by - Chips on 6/17/2006 1:45:08 AM