It's so sad. (sorry for grave digging but I have been gone for a while.) At the school I just got out of, you could get suspended for ARM WRESTLING! They considered it fighting. They made this rule because in 1993, ONE PERSON got injured (sprained wrist) by arm wrestling, and now the school board thinks that because there's about a one in eight thousand chance of getting injured, we shouldn't be able to do something that has a little enjoyment there. If it was just the school board, it would be one thing. But the United States government is responsible for most of this, and it's really sad. A lot of people who know me in real life think that I hate America. That couldn't be further from the truth, I love America I just hate what America is becomming. You could take an American from the year 1999 and put him here in 2006 and he'd think he was in Communist China.

Well okay. Unlike fireworks, I agree that banning armwrestling is stupid.

Killa, FF, think of it from the Board's point of view. They probably agree with your statement that banning arm wrestling is stupid, but it only takes one lawsuit...

Until we, to quote Shakespeare, kill all the lawyers, anything that could result in the school (or any institution) being sued will be banned.

Hard cheese, but there's nothing to do about it.

The thing they should ban, is stupidiy. It runs rampit, and should be baned. Anyone caught in posession of it, needs their head examined. Then the rest could be left alone.

Evil: I tried seeing things from the Board's point of view, but I couldn't get my head that far up my ass.

It's quite simple: "How can I reduce the risk of me getting sued by a bunch of idiots doing something I wouldn't, wrongly, to zero?"

@Final, what would be the penalty for possession of stupidity? Would there be a heftier punishment if there could be a proven intention to supply?

If caught with it, first offence is one week with all rights to think removed. If caught with the intent to distribute, One year in prison surounded with place cards screaming out the individuals stupidity.

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Offensive and annoying comments aside, i find this argument funny. Looking around in the room im in there are chairs and ottomans. Know how many times as a kid i tripped on one of those and got hurt? Ban them. A water cooler with hot water, i could get burnt, ban it. A wooden stirring stick, i could splinter my eye, ban it. You see where i am going?

I think banning fireworks is stupid because everything can hurt you. But this 'liberty' stuff is BS. Yeah i know its the principle of the thing but still, if you dont have fireworks who cares? Considering the fact that much more important stuff happens every 15 minutes it seems shallow and stupid to devote time towards this.

I personally think the state of banning stuff is amusing, things get banned for alot of dumb reasons. But rarley ever is it a big deal. Im going to say something edgy here thats gunna have you americans on my back. You say how great america is and how it prides liberty, and how us other countries are less democratic and freedom loving cus we cant play with explosives. Well In holland i can smoke pot legally, its my freedom to do so. You dont have that freedom in america. And despite what your propaganda tells you, pot is alot less dangerous then frickin explosives. Its only going to hurt the user (Unless your a pregnant woman).

Also in your country you had the patriot act, people could get arrested on miinmal grounds and couldnt even go to court over it. For security reasons. But hey, at least you can blow your fingers off with fireworks right? God bless america!

Edited by - Ruthtopper on 6/13/2006 7:07:38 AM

i think you missed the last part of my first post, where i said that banning fireworks is not a serious issue to me, but that i felt it was indicative of a Safety Hysteria that threatens all our liberties, and i railed against this country's methods of waging its endless war against Evildoers

YES, using fireworks is a liberty just like driving, smoking whatever, getting a tan, listening to loud music, farting, cursing, etc etc unregulated activities. just because its minor doesn't mean its not linked to an underlying issue that stares us in the face every day, like wiretapping 4th ammendment violations 'for da childrun'

you're right about drug use anyways - you're free to use your bodies however you like there, not true here. fyi i didn't say the forner's r inferior - i just said i think the capacity for responsibility is diminished whenever liberty is curbed, whether its fireworks or firearms the government is telling you that you are incapable of taking care of yourself by excercising good judgement. eg - YOU are TOO stupid TO be TRUSTED

i am a libertarian - a lot of people think we're anarchists, socially and economically - personally i am a social libertarian, and i believe a good deal of the economic ideology makes sense.as a libertarian, i think we must constantly fight for our freedom, not in foreign lands but against our own government's excesses - obviously i'm not fighting this one, because i could care less whether its legal or not, but i am concerned by people demanding legislation based on 5 people killing themselves with fireworks and 1 person killed by another's irresponsible use (thats from a cpsc report)

go rent penn and teller's Bull**** season 2 and watch Safety Hysteria - do it now!

we ought to ban smoking(again),alcohol(again),fatty foods,salt,and stressful occupations, as they kill more people by health complications than fireworks,firearms,buckets,plastic bags,and long winded posts combined

OK, Enough!

ALL of these things should come under personal responsibility- by that I mean a cognizant recognition of what is right or wrong, which is a personal definition and is not and should not come under any sort of government auspices. Depending on 'Them' to keep you safe is paramount to giving away ALL your rights, from everything from fireworks to firearms to fire safety- and if you dont think so,then you should look at some of the laws that are being passed on a daily basis in this country..

Freedom equals Responsibility - If you are willing to exercise the responsibility, then you should have the freedom - but it cannot be on a day by day, or hit or miss basis! You must be willing to do this every day, or you lose the right to gripe about how 'They' are taking your rights from you.

Either you want to be free,( and that includes the right to starve if you wont take a job' Because you won't work for that amount') or you want to be a slave of one sort or the other, whether it be for political, social, or religious reasons.

By the way- as a personal definition, I give the following:
Firearms- know how to use them correctly.Do Not ever point a firearm at something you are not willing to destroy or kill.
Take it upon youself to know whether or not it is loaded- check the chamber even if you just saw someone look!
Respect the tool- because that is what it is- a gun is not evil in and of itself, it is nothing more than a tool that can be used for good or evil. And if you think about it, a screwdriver can be utilized just as effectively as a gun for ending a life.
Fireworks- I fly model rockets for a hobby, including those that fall under the 'civilian missle' category-the responsibility is on myself to know when is an appropriate time to launch, or even if we should launch due to weather conditions- or whether or not we're under an airport's flight path... And whether or not a permit is required.
Politicians- If you want to vote for someone based on the same principles that govern who should be Homecoming king or queen, then you have no right to b**ch when they do things that appeal to the ( far to often) immature older set,i.e; the overgrown children who often seem to be set loose in the candy store of government handouts.
I could go on at length about many other examples in the category of 'Responsibility'..and probably have in other columns.The point is, You Are Responsible For What You Do...

Even if that includes giving away your freedoms...

I would ask that you think about that.

And, @ Cold Void- Truly Libertatian? Or a Rational Anarchist ( Thx to R.A.H. for the definiton)


Edited by - Fred the Dead on 6/13/2006 10:08:51 AM

Im the opposite, im pro legalization of almost everything (things one consumes i mean) simply because consumption rates of drugs ect dont go down or up with legality. Statistics deny this, but there is a reason why

While a substance is illegal the only way you can gather figures is from the police and who they have caught. So the rates are lower in statistics during ilegalization because people who dont get caught dont show up.
Someone who is determined to drnk, smoke, do coke or herione is not going to be hindered by legality. Drugs are very very very easy to get, no matter where you are.

Also if you legalize drugs it does massive amount of damage to organized crime as they are no longer making money from them. This also boosts the economy at the same time. A example is, our neighbour to the north (canada) there pot industry makes more money then there oil industry. Tax that and the countries economy skyockets.

In a country that runs rampant with stupidity, US, we need rules to protect the rest of us from frivaus(sp) lawsuits of the stupid and inept who can't use common sence and get hurt, then sue because they didn't know better. If it means the others get restrikted freedoms, then that is the price for allowing those few, to mess it up for the majority. The alturnative is, deal harshly with the stupid and give the freedom to the wiser ones, but in reality, this won't EVER happen.

@ FD- I agree in principle, but why does this happen? because ,by and large, you can only understand the 'Rules of the Game" if you have the time, i.e, the lack of pressure of having to have a job to support yourself and those you hold Dear-
And the fact that it is all too conveinient to hold 'Others' responsible for the lack of 'Social Protection' neccessary..

I might contend that a Law holding all those responsible for what they do might be more effective, but I do agree that that would be next to impossible in 'The Land of the Fee' as we must deal with the laws that make irresponsibility OK, and move stupidity to the top of the list of things that 'Must be Protected', according to the 'Willathapeeble'

Has anybody read C.L.Kornbluth's "The Marching Morons"? Published back in the 1950's, and even more frightening today...

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Offensive and annoying comments aside, i find this argument funny. Looking around in the room im in there are chairs and ottomans. Know how many times as a kid i tripped on one of those and got hurt? Ban them. A water cooler with hot water, i could get burnt, ban it. A wooden stirring stick, i could splinter my eye, ban it. You see where i am going?

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Chairs are not inherently dangerous when used properly . Unless you live in London . Water coolers... eh? How could a water cooler produce hot water? Did something get lost in the translation? As for the stirring stick (I presume you mean a spoon), unless you stir things with your nose, I find that rather unlikely. Fireworks, on the other hand, are explosives. By definition they have no purpose except to explode. Though I think that's the point you're making below.

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You are too stupid to be trusted

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Not sure what the alternating caps and bold was for. Anyway...
As we have all been trying to say, this is not a pre-emptive measure. This is strictly reactionary. The government has decided that you (not you personally) can't be trusted because you can't be trusted. You fireworks nuts blow yourselves and other people up, cause millions of dollars' worth of property damage and tie up the emergency services.

You're absolutely right that people desperate for high-explosives will just go where they are legal, but that is not the point. The folks in charge want fireworks and all the associated problems out . They realise that by banning them, the hardcore will still get hold of them, but they'll be forced to do it away from other people, thus dramatically reducing the danger to others and risk of fires etc. So some sensible, law-abiding people can't watch pretty lights in the sky any more? Necessary evil, I say.

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we ought to ban smoking(again),alcohol(again),fatty foods,salt,and stressful occupations, as they kill more people by health complications than fireworks,firearms,buckets,plastic bags,and long winded posts combined

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Signed. Well, maybe just smoking and alcohol. Fatty foods and salt are tasty and stressful occupations pay well.

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Firearms- know how to use them correctly.Do Not ever point a firearm at something you are not willing to destroy or kill.
Take it upon youself to know whether or not it is loaded- check the chamber even if you just saw someone look!

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You just shot yourself in the foot there. *cough* The correct use of a firearm is to kill someone/something.

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a screwdriver can be utilized just as effectively as a gun for ending a life

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I hope you drink decaff. I certainly find it much easier (in principle, of course) to kill people with a weapon that shoots metal shards faster than the speed of sound than a blunt implement that would struggle to break the skin.

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Im the opposite, im pro legalization of almost everything (things one consumes i mean)

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Thanks, but no thanks. We have enough pot-heads in the government without making any more. Seriously, though, things are banned for a reason. Legalising known dangerous chemicals for public consumption raises some serious ethical issues. If over 60% of young Americans believe their country invaded Australia in 2003, is it likely that they are going to understand the dangers banned substances (which have been legalised)? Ask smokers why they started smoking... £10 says none of them say "Because it's my right to".

Sometimes pure liberty has to be sacrificed for the protection of citizens. Would your first thought on compulsory schooling up to 16 be that it is illiberal? Because it is, and it's a good thing too. If I had my way, it would go up to 18.


EDIT: Simu-ed by Final and Fred. That's what happens when you type out mini-essays

People who take drugs are bad.

Damn customs agents

Edited by - The Evil Thing on 6/13/2006 11:08:04 AM