Cassy, I wasn't making a joke about MS. You appear to have had a sense of humour bipass. I was trying to make light hearted of the fact that you said about 20 times in one sentence what a great guy he is.
I agree with PizzaPete (nice name by the way!), so out of respect I'm going to stop arguing with you and butt back out to where I came from. Maybe you Cassy should consider doing the same, seeing as you're so easily offended.
Edited by - slartifartfast on 3/3/2005 9:33:58 AM
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New Zero Tolerance Policy ----- REVISED EDITION -----
This is where you can discuss your homework, family, just about anything, make strange sounds and otherwise discuss things which are really not related to the Lancer-series. Yes that means you can discuss other games.
Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:55 am
You know, it's quite depressing when threads about new measures to reduce flaming incite more flaming themselves.
Actually, while I'm here, I may as well toss a few salient points into the discussion.
This is my first post in the Off Topic forum for goodness knows how long. Let's analyse why this could possibly be so.
Could it be because the moderation has reached a level whereby nobody can have the discussions they want? Surely not. After all, the moderation on this site makes every attempt to be fair and reasonable, does it not? So it couldn't be the moderation.
Maybe it's because all the interesting people have packed up and left. In fact, this seems to be very much the case. Virtually all of the people whom I had significant respect for are no longer present on these forums, and even when they are it's only to make a comment to this effect - "Nobody's here any more, see?"
Maybe FL is just suffering a slump in popularity, so we have fewer users. *checks* No, the actual game forums here and elsewhere are still being used frequently. Evidently it's not that.
Even my fertile imagination can think of no more plausible reasons. That brings it all back to the moderation. There seems to be a difference between the policy and the practice. Or maybe I'm completely wrong, because I "don't know what it's like to be a moderator and run some forums".
Now, the ol' grapevine has informed me that a significant number of moderators are resigning. To quote Radiohead - "Your alarm bells should be ringing". Does not all this criticism, mass resignation, EVERYTHING, does it not trigger one iota of an "OH ****" in your brain? Can you not see that this place has gone down the pan? I distinctly remember a once-esteemed member of this community saying that strict moderation would only get more strict until threads were getting locked for the slightest infringement. Oh dear, look what's happened! Perhaps THIS could be the reason why I haven't posted in OT for a while. Perhaps it's because any potentially interesting discussions are being deemed unsuitable and locked. Real world issues that people would like to talk about are being locked because they're tenuously connected to politics, or religion or whatever. Good forums have tolerance, because tolerance breeds variety, which is the spice of life not only in reality but in online communites as well. Variety stops forums from going stale. Stop the variety, the forum goes stale. Look around you for evidence.
Edited by - Darkstone on 3/3/2005 10:20:49 AM
Actually, while I'm here, I may as well toss a few salient points into the discussion.
This is my first post in the Off Topic forum for goodness knows how long. Let's analyse why this could possibly be so.
Could it be because the moderation has reached a level whereby nobody can have the discussions they want? Surely not. After all, the moderation on this site makes every attempt to be fair and reasonable, does it not? So it couldn't be the moderation.
Maybe it's because all the interesting people have packed up and left. In fact, this seems to be very much the case. Virtually all of the people whom I had significant respect for are no longer present on these forums, and even when they are it's only to make a comment to this effect - "Nobody's here any more, see?"
Maybe FL is just suffering a slump in popularity, so we have fewer users. *checks* No, the actual game forums here and elsewhere are still being used frequently. Evidently it's not that.
Even my fertile imagination can think of no more plausible reasons. That brings it all back to the moderation. There seems to be a difference between the policy and the practice. Or maybe I'm completely wrong, because I "don't know what it's like to be a moderator and run some forums".
Now, the ol' grapevine has informed me that a significant number of moderators are resigning. To quote Radiohead - "Your alarm bells should be ringing". Does not all this criticism, mass resignation, EVERYTHING, does it not trigger one iota of an "OH ****" in your brain? Can you not see that this place has gone down the pan? I distinctly remember a once-esteemed member of this community saying that strict moderation would only get more strict until threads were getting locked for the slightest infringement. Oh dear, look what's happened! Perhaps THIS could be the reason why I haven't posted in OT for a while. Perhaps it's because any potentially interesting discussions are being deemed unsuitable and locked. Real world issues that people would like to talk about are being locked because they're tenuously connected to politics, or religion or whatever. Good forums have tolerance, because tolerance breeds variety, which is the spice of life not only in reality but in online communites as well. Variety stops forums from going stale. Stop the variety, the forum goes stale. Look around you for evidence.
Edited by - Darkstone on 3/3/2005 10:20:49 AM
Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:42 am
I mostly lurk in the OT forums contributing here and there. I am sorry alot of "old regulars" have left I found alot of them amusing blokes. Wish I lurked less and gotten more info on them *sigh* any way my point is some left for personal reasons some left out of loyalty. Doesnt mean they are wrong or right we should not start flaming each other because of differing opinions otherwise the site is a waste. We shall see what happens in the future
OT non rant Cassy, Slartibartifast is a character in the books of Douglas Adams Hitchiker books.
OT non rant Cassy, Slartibartifast is a character in the books of Douglas Adams Hitchiker books.
Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:29 am
Zero Tolerence eh? I'm sorry, I left my brown shirt and jackboots at home
What you've got to seriously realise is the harder and more hyper-sensitive you get about posting and threads, the more posters will get disgruntled. The more they will complain and get angry about this "hyper-sensitive" forum where everything is a bad word. Make a new forum where people can discuss these issues and things should work out. Either that or lower the "clicking" rate by about 50%.
Well those are my thoughts.
Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms -- Ernesto "Che" Guevara
What you've got to seriously realise is the harder and more hyper-sensitive you get about posting and threads, the more posters will get disgruntled. The more they will complain and get angry about this "hyper-sensitive" forum where everything is a bad word. Make a new forum where people can discuss these issues and things should work out. Either that or lower the "clicking" rate by about 50%.
Well those are my thoughts.
Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms -- Ernesto "Che" Guevara
Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:44 am
A lot has been said about my locking the other thread. If any wants to know more of my reasons, they are more than welcome to e-mail me about it and I will explain them. The jist of it was to prevent a flame war, which seemed aparent to come from it. I did not lock it because of any personel views. Don't believe me? Last night, a poster put up a thread from the other side of the coin. It would have drawn fire straight back to the poster. I spoke with them viea MSN and asked it be taken down 3 times. It was refused. I then informed the creaor that I would remove it then and did so, but not before the first 3 replies started heat. The creator of the thread as well as BP were informed of this with in 5 minuets. As I said, I am not taking sides. Either side, creates hostilities, as has already been seen. To let the post remain, even locked, would still created major problems, due to the wording in it. I do not take side in the issues, as I said before, my personal opinions stay off the forum. I oplogized in the Mod thread if what I did offende others, same still holds. But, to let something by, that has caused real life issues in debates and devides people even more, let it be left to MSN or aother forum that is safety lined. That was my judgement then and it is now. 
Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:53 am
Darkstone, consider the fact that the same moderators operating here also moderate the rest of the site.
So by nature, should this not be happening as a site wide occurance? Its not though is it? However, we are no saints - and yes, we have been heavy handed at times. However, people will see what we contend with at times too - and hopefully can understand when errors occur.
@Slarti - thanks for labelling everyone as the same - very inciteful of you....sorry, insightful of you. (yeah, i know, inciteful isn't a real word - but I thought it was a good pun
). As for doubting Cassy's words, one could doubt yours too. Join date of today, but claim you have been watching for years? For all anyone knows your just another manisifestation of someone else already here and providing posts! I hope you don't get offended at that, after all - you indicate you believe Cassy is really a moderator posting under a different name after all. Would hate for you to take insult when you willing dish out the same to others.............
@Wilde - please, stop apologising. If your a petrol station attendant, and you sold the petrol to a customer who then went and set fire to a house..........does that mean your guilty? Heck no!
You posted your opinion - thats it! I don't, and nor does ANYONE else believe you posted with intent to cause trouble, grief or anything else. The fact that others siezed upon your topic to vent their feelings doesn't mean your responsible at all. You posted your grievence instead of emailing..........it doesn't matter to be honest, and you certainly shouldn't think its all because of you.
Many of the 'returning' members have existing grieviences with all and any of the moderating team/admins. They all went to their own private, exclusive forum, from which they will post an alert about a juicy topic here to which they can all return to have a go at. That is why some come back, to have another pop at us again.
@Taw, you make it sound like we intentionally edited or deleted posts left right and centre, with the sole intention of making everyone else out to be the devil. That is a fabrication - we deleted posts alright, but we haven't deleted them with an intention to discredit anyone. Inferring that we have is simple fabrication - which hopefully people will see straight through.
Truth is that posts were deleted, and yes, it pissed some people off. The whole crusade against us by some has started simply because some posts were deleted, and the posters disliked it. We are no angels at all, but do not for one second make out that everyone is a saint except us either.
Also, as for my arguement holding less water than a tesco bag? Strangely enough I have a tesco bag right here, and it holds water perfectly 
(there are no holes in the bottom, guess a defect then?!).
On a more serious note, I am not saying I have more ability to judge what is best for your children at all - or anyone elses either - and I know no-one will read that from my posts at all. However, like I said, because I am no parent does not mean I am incapable of deeming what is suitable either.
Is that what you are trying to say though, that because I am not a parent, that I am incapable of deciding what is suitable for children?
Edited by - Chips on 3/3/2005 12:05:59 PM
So by nature, should this not be happening as a site wide occurance? Its not though is it? However, we are no saints - and yes, we have been heavy handed at times. However, people will see what we contend with at times too - and hopefully can understand when errors occur.
@Slarti - thanks for labelling everyone as the same - very inciteful of you....sorry, insightful of you. (yeah, i know, inciteful isn't a real word - but I thought it was a good pun
). As for doubting Cassy's words, one could doubt yours too. Join date of today, but claim you have been watching for years? For all anyone knows your just another manisifestation of someone else already here and providing posts! I hope you don't get offended at that, after all - you indicate you believe Cassy is really a moderator posting under a different name after all. Would hate for you to take insult when you willing dish out the same to others.............
@Wilde - please, stop apologising. If your a petrol station attendant, and you sold the petrol to a customer who then went and set fire to a house..........does that mean your guilty? Heck no!
You posted your opinion - thats it! I don't, and nor does ANYONE else believe you posted with intent to cause trouble, grief or anything else. The fact that others siezed upon your topic to vent their feelings doesn't mean your responsible at all. You posted your grievence instead of emailing..........it doesn't matter to be honest, and you certainly shouldn't think its all because of you.
Many of the 'returning' members have existing grieviences with all and any of the moderating team/admins. They all went to their own private, exclusive forum, from which they will post an alert about a juicy topic here to which they can all return to have a go at. That is why some come back, to have another pop at us again.
@Taw, you make it sound like we intentionally edited or deleted posts left right and centre, with the sole intention of making everyone else out to be the devil. That is a fabrication - we deleted posts alright, but we haven't deleted them with an intention to discredit anyone. Inferring that we have is simple fabrication - which hopefully people will see straight through.
Truth is that posts were deleted, and yes, it pissed some people off. The whole crusade against us by some has started simply because some posts were deleted, and the posters disliked it. We are no angels at all, but do not for one second make out that everyone is a saint except us either.
Also, as for my arguement holding less water than a tesco bag? Strangely enough I have a tesco bag right here, and it holds water perfectly
(there are no holes in the bottom, guess a defect then?!).
On a more serious note, I am not saying I have more ability to judge what is best for your children at all - or anyone elses either - and I know no-one will read that from my posts at all. However, like I said, because I am no parent does not mean I am incapable of deeming what is suitable either.
Is that what you are trying to say though, that because I am not a parent, that I am incapable of deciding what is suitable for children?
Edited by - Chips on 3/3/2005 12:05:59 PM
Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:11 pm
you are a funny guy Chips, I've always had time for you despite diagreeing with virtually everything you've ever said about anything. that bags mine btw, i need it fer me sarnies guy.
bp, *fight club*? so so wrong. You just do not get it at all, do you? that's what yopu think the opposition is all about, so people can cuss and swear and insult each other? tbh I can't be bothered to explain it to you anymore, I've tried till my fingers are worn off with typing and you're either too stubborn or just too bl**dy thick to get it.
FD, too little too late; you can't undo what's been done. Whether you really are a right-wing homophobe or not, and that's me being generous, you have now been tarred with that brush and it will stick.
bp, *fight club*? so so wrong. You just do not get it at all, do you? that's what yopu think the opposition is all about, so people can cuss and swear and insult each other? tbh I can't be bothered to explain it to you anymore, I've tried till my fingers are worn off with typing and you're either too stubborn or just too bl**dy thick to get it.
FD, too little too late; you can't undo what's been done. Whether you really are a right-wing homophobe or not, and that's me being generous, you have now been tarred with that brush and it will stick.
Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:18 pm
FinalDay -
I prefusely apologise. You explain yourself well and I was wrong to accuse you of active homophobia on TLR. I hope you will accept my apology.
Chips -
Tell me chips. You talk of peace a lot. Yet every time I read your posts they are argumentative and over-opinionated to such a manner that could only have one outcome - an argument. Is that your intention? Or are you naturally offensive?
It is true that from one side of the fence my registering today may be seen as a manifestation of someone else. Very true in fact. You can only really take my word for it. But I have to register to post - and as I've never wanted to post before, I've never bothered to register. Its taken a ridiculous amount of flaming to even wake me up, but as I sit here watching you all destroy a site that I enjoy, I felt it necessary to step in and give my opinion. If you don't respect that then you are certainly the wrong kind of person to be moderating any kind of website, especially one with as many political problems as this one.
It is also true that I accused (and still do accuse) "Cassy" as being such a person. I stand by those comments merely because "she" is showing trait after trait of an offended mod. But of course, I could be wrong.
And you accuse me of generalising. I have tried to have been very careful with my words as not to generalise...however in the heat of the moment I have written some very offensive things I admit...but you've now decided to leap on me twice about it blatantly disregarding the context of the argument that was happening at that time. Also, if you could be bothered to read my posts, you will also find that I have retracted my opinion since Eraser approached me and gave me his (seemingly genuine) word on the subject.
And then if you check the post times of all these posts you will also find that I have been trying to leave quietly, some may (rightly) say with my tail between my legs, for over 4 hours now - yet you insist on continuously flaming me telling me not to flame. Read and research Chips before blowing off as you readily do. Your argumentative, over-heated, somewhat innacurate approach is exactly what people are complaining about here. Do yourself a favour and calm down before you give yourself a coronary.
And consider this - the more you flame me, the more likely I am to stick around and continuously bite back at you. Perhaps we've identified a problem here that has not yet been mentioned?
Now can I leave? Or would you prefer to keep flaming me so this argument goes around in circles until you are forced to ban me? Grow up!
I prefusely apologise. You explain yourself well and I was wrong to accuse you of active homophobia on TLR. I hope you will accept my apology.
Chips -
Tell me chips. You talk of peace a lot. Yet every time I read your posts they are argumentative and over-opinionated to such a manner that could only have one outcome - an argument. Is that your intention? Or are you naturally offensive?
It is true that from one side of the fence my registering today may be seen as a manifestation of someone else. Very true in fact. You can only really take my word for it. But I have to register to post - and as I've never wanted to post before, I've never bothered to register. Its taken a ridiculous amount of flaming to even wake me up, but as I sit here watching you all destroy a site that I enjoy, I felt it necessary to step in and give my opinion. If you don't respect that then you are certainly the wrong kind of person to be moderating any kind of website, especially one with as many political problems as this one.
It is also true that I accused (and still do accuse) "Cassy" as being such a person. I stand by those comments merely because "she" is showing trait after trait of an offended mod. But of course, I could be wrong.
And you accuse me of generalising. I have tried to have been very careful with my words as not to generalise...however in the heat of the moment I have written some very offensive things I admit...but you've now decided to leap on me twice about it blatantly disregarding the context of the argument that was happening at that time. Also, if you could be bothered to read my posts, you will also find that I have retracted my opinion since Eraser approached me and gave me his (seemingly genuine) word on the subject.
And then if you check the post times of all these posts you will also find that I have been trying to leave quietly, some may (rightly) say with my tail between my legs, for over 4 hours now - yet you insist on continuously flaming me telling me not to flame. Read and research Chips before blowing off as you readily do. Your argumentative, over-heated, somewhat innacurate approach is exactly what people are complaining about here. Do yourself a favour and calm down before you give yourself a coronary.
And consider this - the more you flame me, the more likely I am to stick around and continuously bite back at you. Perhaps we've identified a problem here that has not yet been mentioned?
Now can I leave? Or would you prefer to keep flaming me so this argument goes around in circles until you are forced to ban me? Grow up!
Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:27 pm
yes, read and research. Check my posts times as well please, maybe you will then be 'enlightened'. I have done just as you have Slarti, posted in one thread before reading a different slant in another.
I will let others judge my comments though, not the recipient.....simply because they will of course be 'biased' against what I post.
I will let others judge my comments though, not the recipient.....simply because they will of course be 'biased' against what I post.
Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:36 pm
sff - You said you decided to post because you couldn't watch while "you all destroy a site that I enjoy". What, exactly, do you mean? The problems here could result only in the shutting-down of OT. That won't cause TLR to shut down; I think the modding community is still quite healthy and, as long as they need a place to stay, TLR will have a raison d'etre. So the worry then relates to OT. But you haven't participated here at all up until now, so what did you enjoy so much? Lurking?
Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:38 pm
chips -
lol. you just can't help yourself can you?
codename -
what exactly is it about me that you don't like? that I can read and enjoy a website without contributing to it? Do you contribute to all of those p0rn sites you visit?
What is it that is so hard to understand? That people outside of your little circle might have an opinion on how things are run? Perhaps I cut a little to close to the bone for you? Is that it? Is it a comfort thing? You call it lurking. I call it reading a website. Lurking suggests voyeurism - in which case I wouldn't have bothered to give my opinion at all.
And to answer your question, shutting any forum, or making any MAJOR changes that will decrease the hit count on this website, IS ruining it. Its as simple as that. When the people go, so will the reason for the site's existance. You'll learn that one day. Sooner than you think I imagine.
To be honest, the only thing I don't understand right now is HOW this thread has turned into an assault on me - whereas it was originally a discussion on the over-moderation of the website. Is this the way things work around here? If someone disagrees with the petty little government you people have created, you get some kind of perverted orgasm out of publicly ousting people? Is this a way to cover up the faults and the problems? Do you people go through life like this?? HOW?!!! lol.
I accepted both Eraser's and FD's explanations on a subject that I over-reacted on. I publicly apologised - TWICE - and asked politely three times to be allowed to leave without having to listen to pre-teen gripes. Yet it still goes on. This says a lot about you people. Maybe you should consider looking closely at yourselves before commenting on others.
Edited by - slartifartfast on 3/3/2005 12:53:45 PM
lol. you just can't help yourself can you?
codename -
what exactly is it about me that you don't like? that I can read and enjoy a website without contributing to it? Do you contribute to all of those p0rn sites you visit?
What is it that is so hard to understand? That people outside of your little circle might have an opinion on how things are run? Perhaps I cut a little to close to the bone for you? Is that it? Is it a comfort thing? You call it lurking. I call it reading a website. Lurking suggests voyeurism - in which case I wouldn't have bothered to give my opinion at all.
And to answer your question, shutting any forum, or making any MAJOR changes that will decrease the hit count on this website, IS ruining it. Its as simple as that. When the people go, so will the reason for the site's existance. You'll learn that one day. Sooner than you think I imagine.
To be honest, the only thing I don't understand right now is HOW this thread has turned into an assault on me - whereas it was originally a discussion on the over-moderation of the website. Is this the way things work around here? If someone disagrees with the petty little government you people have created, you get some kind of perverted orgasm out of publicly ousting people? Is this a way to cover up the faults and the problems? Do you people go through life like this?? HOW?!!! lol.
I accepted both Eraser's and FD's explanations on a subject that I over-reacted on. I publicly apologised - TWICE - and asked politely three times to be allowed to leave without having to listen to pre-teen gripes. Yet it still goes on. This says a lot about you people. Maybe you should consider looking closely at yourselves before commenting on others.
Edited by - slartifartfast on 3/3/2005 12:53:45 PM
Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:44 pm
From what I was told by bp's daughter on MSN he wont be making any more appearances in the off topic forums. You can use it as a fight club if you want. She also told me that bp is the most honest person that she has ever meet even though it is her father shes taking about and may be bias. She also said that he is very dedicated. Helpful and generous to people of all types and is a very busy person and cant understand why he wastes his talent and time on a stupid little web site that in the scheme of things is nothing to what he has accomplished. He don't need the aggravation but continues to spend time doing things for this site even while his wife is in the hospital with MS he still finds the time to do what he does. Strange how people don't look at that and just continue to abuse one of the good guys.
HAHAHA!
oh mercy, im SO sorry i missed this, seriously, its like comedy gold, shame Cassy the little runt is gone, ah well, i know theyre all secretly watching anyway so...
She also told me that bp is the most honest person that she has ever meet
hahahaha.
Yeah, it turns out there's a lot of people who, behind their father back, really tell tales of theivery and dastardly deeds. Come on, what the frak else is she gonna say? Especially since you got her MSN FROM bp.
Helpful and generous to people of all types and is a very busy person and cant understand why he wastes his talent and time on a stupid little web site that in the scheme of things is nothing to what he has accomplished.
He could *strokes beard* quit? And it seems like WE are the only ones who dont think this site is stupid. bp obviously does. Are the great unwashed the ONLY ones who want to fight for this site? who see value in keeping it unspoiled?
He don't need the aggravation but continues to spend time doing things for this site even while his wife is in the hospital with MS he still finds the time to do what he does.
Funny, cause i dont remember asking him to help f**k up the site, so why take on a massive responsibility like TLR if he doesnt have the time to run it, care for it, or even listen to the people? Sounds more like he was on a power trip doesnt it? Sounds like he wanted the (admin) tag on his username and thought "no one will notice if i dont pull my weight". If Lord Bargib was on the way out because he couldnt put the time in he knew the site deserved, surely the replacement should HAVE THE TIME.
Strange how people don't look at that and just continue to abuse one of the good guys.
Yeah, because i forgot that this site debacle was actually ALL ABOUT bp's home life and in fact NOT RELATED TO AT ALL his sloppy mis-management of the site. Dont you dare f**king emotionally blackmale me Cassy or whatever your real name is. For a long time lurker, first time poster, your innocence doesnt really hold water when you're shmoozing with bp's daughter on MSN...know what i mean?