---

Arcon: Funny, cause i dont remember asking him to help f**k up the site, so why take on a massive responsibility like TLR if he doesnt have the time to run it, care for it, or even listen to the people

---

Absolute BULL****. You may not have ventured very often into other areas of this site, but bp has done more to organise and promote the modding of FL than anyone else I can think of. I'm sorry about the language, but it seems to me that bp is being turned into a scapegoat for every problem under the sun around here and he sure as hell doesn't deserve it.

I'll admit there are some serious problems that need sorting, but no-one is doing anything about it. This incessant arguing is getting us nowhere, and neither is the censorship frenzy in an attempt to sweep it all under the carpet. My suggestion - take it or leave it - would be to disassociate TLR from the OT forum. Not to remove it, but to simply have a disclaimer somewhere prominent saying that the content in the OT forum is in no way affiliated with TLR and TLR will not be held responsible for anything in it. I know all about the ICRA, but you could stick that in as well.

Its okay, I have made a decision simply based on the fact that I feel I am wasting my time here these days.......... Simply put, what is the point in all of this. I know what the point is from other peoples perspective, you wish a change in the stance on issues such as the topics to discuss, the way we moderate and more.

However, from my point of view - I do agree with this, this being the way people try to get things to change. I have been conversing with mods over email in regards to our stances, have conversed with FD about his thread, with Wilde about the same thread......

Simply put, I put alot of time and effort in here, I have given all I can to the modding community, and the modding forums. I try my best to post level headed posts (although as Neo or Indy will tell you, this can and does slip), and try my best to help people see other perspectives apart from their own.

Whilst I know my perspectives are not what some want to see, and certainly do not agree with - you are also not privvy to what I say behind the scenes. Wilde will confirm that I am not all that bad as people think, and I am pretty sure that a modding community will tell you that I am a nice person, fair handed, and even tempered. Heck - I still get a good 6-8 emails a day asking for help with issues on making mods, how to's and more.

What few of you will know is that I have also been generating talk with other mods and the admins as to what I think about the rules, how we have/are being too tough, we should not pre-emptive lock, and that 'grave digging' is an complete and utter contradictory term........search before posting so you don't replicate a thread, but when you find that thread via the search - don't post or you will get jumped on for grave digging!!!!

I used to have a strong resolve in trying to get things done, and stood up for what I believed to be right (BP will testify that on occasions this has caused some major issues - as I attempted to mend bridges between TLR's modding community, and its reputation with another website - whom had models stolen without permission from him. BP busted nutts to sort it out, and Darksabers X-Wing site removed thier tirade against some of our modding community, and thanked us for our efforts in resolving his grieviences!)

However, for me, enough is enough. I simply do not have the heart to go head to head with people anymore. I have had any wish to fight burnt out of me entirely. Its not because I disagree with anything the administration does - believe me, I count BP and Eraser as my CLOSEST friends on this site! Whilst some things I have disagreed with, this is not in reaction to those. This is simply in reaction to the continuing war by the community in general against the staff. I don't single any particular person out, and do not lay the blame at them alone.......because something has to cause tempers to flare. However, I DO strongly disagree with the way it has been carried out, and in trying to explain, retort, or even broker peace - I have finally had the last straw. You may say your insult was the 'straw that broke the camels back' so to speak. I literally sat there after reading it, and wondered what the heck am I doing this for? I get worked up over a website...........why?

A few little known facts for you - I have had well over 4500 posts, with my first being in the newbie questions thread by Accushot (whom I mod with now at my site). I have loved every last minute of posting in the editing forums - as it literally feels like my 'second home'. I didn't venture out of there unti, ohh, 6-8 months after joining.......

I still love the editing forums, and its posters, to pieces - and have always tried to help (although sometimes it can be annoying to read the 20th thread saying 'how do I do this', when I spent 8 hours making a thread with links to every answer you may want ). I am sure i will also find it hard to let go, but I really don't have the energy anymore......

This is me, Chips, signing off as a moderator........and more importantly - as a community member

To BP and Eraser - thanks guys, you've been awesome over the last year and a half Stand fast, and I am sure your efforts will come to fruition and be appreciated once again.

p.s - yes, this is in direct relation to this latest outburst - I simply do not wish to have to get worked up anymore about this site. I love it to pieces, and cannot bear to see it getting ripped up over someone elses personal views of us. I know some will cheer (as I know I am very unpopular to some) - and I know some may feel the taste of blood and think they will get more. I hope other staff members are stronger than me, but I cannot keep up the heart to help out a community, when all I feel is hurt.

Mike

"what exactly is it about me that you don't like?"

I don't like you? That's news to me. If you're referring to the unbridled hostility of my questions to you...wait, there was no unbridled hostility. I fail to see any hostility at all. I asked a few fairly simple questions. But you can take them however you want I guess.

"that I can read and enjoy a website without contributing to it?"

What gives you the impression that would be a problem? I, too, lurked before posting.

"Do you contribute to all of those p0rn sites you visit?"

Well, I do click on the banners from time to time, does that count?

"What is it that is so hard to understand?"

I don't understand what you're worried about. If you're here for the mods then you've nothing to worry about; I don't see this stopping people from expressing their creativity through FL mods. If you're here for the conversation, I suppose it might be a pain to have to find some other website to read but it's not a huge deal. I also don't understand why you feel so strongly about TLR. If you've never posted here before, and if you don't know any of the people here (and how could you if you have never interacted with them) then why would it pain you so much to see TLR crumble and die? Hell, even if you had been here since the site's inception I don't know why it would be such a big deal. Maybe Arcon could give me some insight in that area.

"That people outside of your little circle might have an opinion on how things are run?"

Say what? My circle? I don't have a circle (here). Ask anyone you want. Anyone. I'm in no way connected to the way this site is run.

"Perhaps I cut a little to close to the bone for you? Is that it? Is it a comfort thing?"

Are you implying that I have latent homosexual tendencies? You're a mind-reader?

"You call it lurking. I call it reading a website."

So that's a yes? You like/liked TLR because of the interesting threads in OT? Okay, that's as legitimate a reason as any. So if OT closes down you go somewhere else. I've already made a move of sorts.

"And to answer your question, shutting any forum, or making any MAJOR changes that will decrease the hit count on this website, IS ruining it."

Wait. Who gave you authority to define what constitutes failure/ruination for this website? Maybe the powers that be want the hit count to go down. Maybe they want clean, sanitized forums (well, that one's not so hypothetical). Maybe, just maybe, they want the site to thrive without OT. Since the site belongs to specific people it is their vision which will shape the "success" or "failure" of TLR. Maybe you don't like their vision. Maybe you think it's clouded. Maybe you think your vision is a better one and that the owners of TLR should accept it over their own. Well, tough sh*t. They don't owe you, me, or any of us anything.

"To be honest, the only thing I don't understand right now is HOW this thread has turned into an assault on me..."

It was not my intention to "assault" you. I just want some answers. You don't have to give any if you don't want, of course.

I'm sorry Cassy, but...

stop b*tching. Seriously. Calling SSF stupid is not the most convincing argument--it's an insult--and talking about BP's devotion to the site, well, you'd be preaching to the converted (even if he doubts the truth of that statement). (Oy vey, it's times like these I am SO glad my options are not limited to the opposite gender )

Edit: Goodbye Chips

Edited by - Wilde on 3/3/2005 2:47:27 PM

*Emerges from a dark corner*
Tsk,tsk.We have a little girl attacking our posters,eh?
*Goes back into corner,accidently bumping into Esqy on the way*

so your leaving Gowserpaul?


you'll be back soon right?

Tis a shame growser, who will slap me when i get out of line And chips... Real shame to see you off.... real shame

*21 salute to growser and chips*

@Darkov Good point, good point.

Now a me moment:
All this stuff has happened is crazy, we have two new people (to posting) pop ip and point guns, fine members leave all over this?
instead of a paragraph of writting i am going to say this big louad so everyone hears

NOT ****ING WORTH IT

By trying to make this place better we are tearing it apart. driving people into the shadows or away.


Edited by - DSQrn on 3/3/2005 4:40:46 PM

Its a sorry state of affairs. Goodbye to the mods who have decided to leave, its a shame you end a long affiliation with TLR and FL like this.

@Chips - Its a DAMN shame to see you go. I think either directly or indirectly, you have helped every single aspiring modder. I would ask you to reconsider and maybe just hang around your usual haunt of the Editing forums, your advice there is invaluable. If you don't decide to come back, well at least you can look back on here and see that all of the fantastic new mods that are coming out have in some way shape or form, being helped along by you. Good Luck for wherever you land

Godammit, everyone is bloody taking off. I don't blame them but it is a shame to see vets flying away. Maybe we deserve it

Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms -- Ernesto "Che" Guevara

*Steps from shadows shaking head in disbelief* Well *that* was bloody quick! Gowser signs off and less than six hours later he has already been demoted. You guys don't waste any time do you? *Returns to shadows still shaking head*

Edited by - esquilax on 3/3/2005 9:17:13 PM

I think we need the State of the Lancers Union (thats semi close to what the thread was called), brought back to the top of OT if thats where it was....

Wow, what a mess. I see what Tim meant when he said that these forums had gone to hell. Admins and mods resigning left n' right, members with good points bein' ignored, what a mess. Some of the mods here seem to lack spines, hidin' in the shadows like zombies and some of the members are none the better.

Thanks to you guys I owe Tim a beer at the local pub, $5, and he has a brilliant memory for bets and the like. Hope you're happy, because I ain't ...

I say Baked should shut down OT for a week to stop your stupidity guys.

Or he could just ban you and accomplish the same thing !