oooh I just love a little paranoia lol

ok, firstly imho AIDS was not a weapon originally. I believe it to be a freak of nature. A form of natural selection if you push it to the extreme. I also believe that there is a cure in nature - as nature always seems to have a yin for its yang.

Now, if it were to turn out that AIDS was not "born" in africa, then I may believe that there is conspiracy involved. There is not relevant effectiveness of a slow killing sexually transmitted disease in a continent that already is overrun by several different slow killing sexually transmitted diseases. There is no point in that whatsoever....unless you opt for the "accidental release" theories, which are quite frankly absurd.

Now if it were proved that the origin of the disease was in western civilisation, that would be a different matter entirely. A disease that kills the sexually promiscuous has an Orwellian feel about it.

@Taw - there's a couple of your theories that I've never heard before and would like to know more about the evidence involved....

1.Winson Churchill knew of the planned Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour but didn't tell the Americans because he wanted the US in the war (prob true)
A theory I could believe as Churchill was a dodgy little so-n-so in his time - he's just been hyped over the years due to his WW2 connection. He didn't even do his most famous speech!! (fight them on the beaches etc was done by his stand-in voice actor) He also hid evidence that could have made the "notorious" Dr Crippen a free man, because the media frenzy of the time had already whipped 99% of the general public into believing the guy was guilty.

2.Last years power failures across the world were the result of terrorist action esp hacking (def true!)
lol. ahhh I remember the days but how do you know it was hacking and not a series of small well placed explosions covered up by the government??

3.The Vatican is run by the Mafia (true)
interesting. evidence?

4.Margaret Thatcher deliberatley engineered mass unemployment (true)
motive?

5.The British Govt deliberatley allows illegal immigrants to settle in Britain to provide a pool of cheap unregulated labour for unscrupulous businesses (true)
hmmm. not sure about this one. Doesn't make sense to me. The public spending and general political problems that insued due to clearing up the mess surely outweighs the backhanders they would get from these "unscrupulous businesses"?? Why would they purposefully make themselves more unpopular at a time of "unjustified" war?

6.the metal strip in banknotes is monitored by the authorities who can track every genuine note (prob NOT)
No way on gods earth is this true. Not even my paranoia can stretch to that one.


You missed another couple of my favourites....

The UK government frequently break the law by introducing subliminal advertising into their party politcial broadcasts. Single frame pacifying images are used to encourage the public that they are better off with them in government. (absolutely true)

Mobile Phones in the UK are still operating on frequencies that were previously banned due to the effect that they had on water - ie. prolonged contact can in fact cause water to boil. The majority of your body is water, it doesn't take a genius to work out the health risks. They bought these frequencies during the mid nineties boom when the government was trying to encourage technology in the workplace. All phone company directors who objected were offered voluntary redundancy. (true - the technical director of Nokia objected and accepted redundancy, and then 2 months later became the tech. director of my previous company)

If an animal - be it a dog, or cat, or chimp, is suffering from Rabbies, and you get bitten - its transmitted. FACT...you will get rabbies.


Viles disease, which rats carry, can infect and seriuosly damage us - transmitted from contact with rats?? Oh yes, and but also through water.............


Okay, disease i know, but viruses can be transmitted just as easily. All they need is a host cell....and since OUR cells are the same as other animal cells (in the way they are made etc), then it can take over without too much trouble. Sure, there are differences in immune systems and stuff, but we are alot weaker than most animals in immune systems...cats and dogs can eat out of date food with no ill effect, whilst we would be taken off to hospital being seriuosly ill!

I never realised that this thread would become this interesting.

@Taw & Grom

I agree slightly with Taw on the Vatican one. Only slightly because i read that the Vatican had only ties with organised crime. I think i read that in The Times.

On the Churchill one. He probably did withold info to get the Americans in to the war. We needed the help. In the end though, the States probably would have declared war on Japan for planning the Pearl Harbour attacks.

1. the Vatican is run by the Mafia - the Vatican Bank is riddled with Mafia money-laundering and several Archbishops/Cardinals are convicted/suspected gangsters. All serious attempts at internal reform are suppressed by the reactionary Pope and the Vatican hierarchy. Check out the criminal history of Cardinal Marcinkus of Chicago, for starters. Oh yeah they're also tied in with extreme right wing Masonic organisations and the Black Brigades. Read "God's Banker" the story behind Roberto Calvi's murder. Remember, I'm Italian!

2. The British Govt fessed up some months ago that they were giving carte blanche to asylum seekers for economic reasons. Remember the fake visa scam? Covert govt policy to import a pool of cheap labour. Been admitted, that's why that woman got sacked.

3. I've told you before that I have first-hand inside testimony that the power/communications outages are terrorist acts that are being systematically covered up.

4. Monetarist theory dictated rapid deflationary measures to reduce the amount of money circulating in the economy in the early 80s - the cost of this was mass unemployment and the destruction of our industrial base, with the upside (for business) of a pool of cheap labour with no union representation and working for low wages, often illegally. Just like with the "asylum seekers" above. There's your motive. Any economist will confirm this.

5. I don't actually believe WS withheld intelligence from the Americans, but I wouldn't put it past him - he prob did something similar with the Lusitania back in the Great War. We've discussed this before.

6. Dr David Kelly - c'mon now, who on earth believes he killed himself?

7. Mobile phones are death, but it's such big business and so pervasive that no govt dare legislate too heavily against them.

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Mobile phones are death, but it's such big business and so pervasive that no govt dare legislate too heavily against them.

---

Reminds me of smoking, and the belief that everyone should quit....

Fact is that the revenue from smoking outweighs the healt bill by about 3 to 1 i think it was, or 5 to 1. Its something like smoking related illnesses cost the NHS 2-3 billion a year or so, although i have heard it as low as 1billion.

Revenue from tax off of cigarettes and tobacco is supposed to top 8-9billion a year - although i have heard of figures being as high as 14billion.

So although its known to be a large killer, they don't want people to stop - cause of all the money it makes
Rings true of the mobile phones.....oh wait *groan*

---

6. Dr David Kelly - c'mon now, who on earth believes he killed himself?

---

Hmmmmm bit of a tricky one there, although considering the circumstances, a suicide could be ruled out. I mean, how was he killed?? Gun?? Poison?? Hung himself?? it has been a bit long, and frankly I didn't care enough at the time, but if anyone can find me an article, maybe I can shed some light on it.

@taw: interesting that you slap "(true)" after most of your "theories" as if the word of taw is greater than that of good and you are checking off them against your worldly knowledge. Is there anything you do which doesnt scream of arrogance?


"If i told you a secret you wont tell a soul,
will you hold it and keep it alive"

@ Loc - he slashed his wrists.

@ Arcon - your last sentance.....pot calling kettle!

if I say it's true, it is. that's not arrogant, I'm just a genius (true)

see?

now why don't you go get some styling wax and do some beard sculpture? I'd be impressed by that.

@Chips, I think you're absolutley right. That's why the duty on cigs just keeps going up and up, I think it's now something like £4-20 of the average £5 price for a pack of 20 goes directly to the Treasury. Thats a big income which they aren't going to enjoy giving up. Aaaalso tobacco company sponsorship is vital to several businesses who are big Noo Labour contributors, Bernie Eccleston being one in particular who comes to mind. Our concerned anti-smoking Govt reversed its policy on cig advertising in sport when Bern started making noises about the impact on his various enterprises.

the whole quit smoking campaign is a con, for every smoker that quits, new ones start, check out any school or youth centre or town centre fun-pub/disco, almost everyone smokes. That's why the authorities can afford to be all high and mighty about it because they will never legislate to really stop smoking at source, nor do they want to, because the loss of income would be very severe - general taxation or VAT or alcohol/petrol duty would have to increase to make up the shortfall, and the general public would go spare.

Edited by - Tawakalna on 7/19/2004 9:24:12 AM

lol. c'mon girls put down the handbags

I follow your reasons taw, but I'm still waiting for documented evidence of some kind. I know that sounds odd because conspiracy theories are just that - theories. But CT's are always founded by fact. So there is always some kind of documentation that you can link to...or at least something you can tell us to look up? The mafia/vatican theory has me fascinated...is there anything you could suggest that we look into to support the theory?

The M/V theory goes even further back. When pirite ships roamed the seas, they never attacked a vatican ship. And they paid tribute to the pope.

edit - the skull and cross bones flag was created by the jesuits.

Edited by - Finalday on 7/19/2004 9:25:56 AM

I'm just messin with Arch, grom, as per usual.

Vatican & the Mafia; look up anything associated with Roberto Calvi, Banco Ambrosiano, and Paul Marcinkus. You'll enjoy this one, it's well documented, you'll prob remember it from 1982, when the guy's body was found hanging under Blackfriars Bridge?

a related theory is that Pope John Paul I (the smiling one who died after a month, remember?) was murdered by the same cabal of internal Vatican crooks because he was going to expose them all and order a full investigation of the affairs of the Vatican Bank re:- Mafia financing and money-laundering, as part of his ambitious programme of reforms (which didn't happen cos he "mysteriously" died of a heart condition he didn't have.....) That should appeal to you to.







Edited by - Tawakalna on 7/19/2004 9:36:40 AM

@Taw

First, how do you know all this. Second. When did Pope John Paul I die?

The vatican has always been secretive.

I found another as well.

"Since WW2, the US and the UK have a telephone system that can recognise certain words like 'bomb' and the computer system can asess (really can't spell) the threat"

"Chris Carter, creator of the x-files, was a government puppet who created the x-files to take the publics attention from the real thing and add an air of fiction to the whole alien theory. Even though the FBI have never denied they actually have the x-files"

Oh and probably THE best...

"There are aliens at Area 51" I don't think anyone has heard of that one...

Bret,

to start, understand that I was born of italian parents and raised a catholic. I'm also q well read and deeply cynical. And one of my great-uncles was a senior Italian clergyman in Aemilia-Romagna, so i have a fairly intimate understanding of how the Catholic Church actually works.

ok some historical background. the Vatican was deeply embarassed after WW2 because Pope Pius had failed to act or raise his hand against the Nazis and their allies. his successor, Pope John 23rd, was much-loved, a strong character, and a reformer who revived Catholicism for the post-war era. However, the subsequent Pope, Paul 6th, was a "safe" bet, a timid man who was fickle and gave his ear to the wrong counsellors. Remeber that Popes aren't democratically elected, they are chosen by Cardinals who are often content toi act as the power behind the throne, q literally. The Catholic Church is fabulously wealthy and very influential.

Under Paul's pontificate, corruption and graft once again gained the upper hand in the vatican, just like in the bad old days. Succesiive Italian govts were made and broken by the Mafia and their vested interests and the Vatican proved a bolthole for gangsters, corrupt clergy etc when secular heat got too much. The Vatican Bank started laundering mafia money by buying stock in Italian/European banks. This started to become really embarassing for the Church but powerful figures were making sure that the heart of the rot was never rooted out. This is all fairly well documented.

In 1978 Paul died and was replaced by another Italian bishop, Alberto Luciani, who styled himself John Paul I; he was elected as again a safe but popular choice (Paul had been aloof and distant) but turned out to have a mind of his own behind his charming smile. He announced that he was going to begin a programme of massive reform, starting with clearing out the Vatican Bank, rooting out embarssments like Archbishop Marcinkus who actually WAS a gangster from Chicago, allowing contraception and freeing up Vatican funds for misionary work by liberation theologians in S and C America.

goodness gracious an honest and caring Pontiff! it didn't last, he died 33 days after his election. officially he had a heart attack, but had no record of a heart condition that could kill so swiftly. In the last few days of his life he had huge rows with the reactionaries opposed to his reforms and had stated he would carry them out no matter what. In effect he had challenged the cabal that had raised him to power, like the Gracchi challenging the Roman Senate in ancient times. And he suffered the same fate. No-one really knows what happened in those last few hours of his life, his own doctor iirc wasnt allowed near and the body wasnt examined independently. A wall of silence went up and the gradual drawing out of the truth took q some time - the Vatican still denies any impropriety.

Predictably, the next Pope (the current one) was elected because he was and still is an arch-conservative, opposed to serious reform of Catholic doctrine or the Vatican finances. However he had nothing to do with any of the nastiness, he's a compromise figure whose undoubted personal integrity largely masks the shady goings on that take place inside the Holy See

I was about 15 when JP1 died, i remember it as a great shock and it was what finally turned me away from Catholicism, that the first truly honest Pope for generations should be struck down, either by the hand of man, or the hand of fate; a terrible injustice when millions were in desperate need of the reforms he promised.

edit - this isn't about religion per se, it's about the Vatican's temporal activities and it's vested interests as an worldly institution.


Edited by - Tawakalna on 7/19/2004 11:57:49 AM