That's what I said... stop plagiarizing my ideas... If you do then I'll have to make up new ones...

It seems that nobody noticed that fact that various factions are at war with each other; for example the corsairs and hessains are enemies and they both have powerful ships... So as long as the gangs are at war with each other the capitals are fine... plus the battle ship idea (which I posted first... yes me...)

White Tiger wrote:

"Being from Germany I am sure you know the Germans during WW2 had the best military equipment in the world."

Hehehe, yeah, sure, if you mean they used more horses than any other nation, and more than they had used in WW1. The Germans had horrible military equipment in WW2, and they used old tactics from 1918 that should have been easily matched by the Allies.

Germany looked good during the blitzkrieg not because of any superiority in arms or equipment (their equipment was in fact poor quality in comparison with that of the Allies), but because the Allies were incompetent. Heck, it took the Allies 2 years to re-institute the shipping convoy system that they had used in WW1. During that time, German U-boats caused havoc in the Allied shipping. The French were using a system of fortifications (the Maginot Line) that had been rendered obsolete in 1918, before the fortifications were even designed - not to mention the fact that, in their plans for the fortifications, they ignored the possibility of a German attack through Belgium (which is precisely how the Germans had invaded in 1914). I don't think you can find anything more stupid in the history of warfare than the Allied insistence, during the first years of WW2, on using tactics that were outdated in 1914.

The Germans in WW2 used tactics (the Blitzkrieg) which were first used successfully by the British and French in 1918. The Wehrmacht was just lucky that the Allies hadn't bothered to work out a response to those tactics.

Ahem,

In 1939, Germany had the MOST advance military in the world. They were the first country to adopt mechanized armor formations as the foundation of thier army (Britian France and the US experimented but never went beyond that until the fall of France). The Luftwaffe was the first true modern airforce flying stressed metal monoplanes while most countries were still flying fabric covered bi-planes. Any fault the military had was due to a lack of stragic forsight NOT poor equipment (The germans never did develop a long range bomber and a decent long range escort fighter even though they had the means to do so). You can't give the credit to the fall of France solely on Allied stupidity, since the germans did need to have the means to exploit those mistakes

The quality of the equipment did fall but that was due to attrition, the bombing campaign and the naval blockade. Even then they did build the Panther and King Tiger Tank, Me-262 Jet fighter and the V2 rocket.


BTW

Those OLD tactics the Germans pioneered in 1918 are still used today LOL


Edited by - Yminale on 15-03-2003 17:18:13

totally agree to Yminale

Adolf just wasn't that brilliant strategic genius he thought of himself. If he hadn't been such an idiot (or if he had listened to his generals), the Allied would have had much more problems defeating Germany. Of course, this is off topic

K Yimnale, i just read everything you said bout germany and missed the fact that you stated all the things i wanted to note in your last sentence...so im postin anyways

Yes, Beery dude, your wrong. They were at the top of almost every advanced research divisions in the world. Just think about it for a bit. The V2's... Nobody had a freakin clue how to make rockets work in a wartime theatre except the germans+ they made the 262(the jet)They were doing all kinds of paranormal research too, just incase it might turn out some kind of advantage. There tanks did need an uppin in the beggining of the war, but they caught up...King Tiger Tank! They also didnt have poor tactics. The germans , at that time, were known to have the finest generals in the world( but as just stated, they had to listen to Adolf. And to top it all off, although they may have lost the war, they completely control the European economy. Im sure theres lots of Germans reading this right now...so guys this is a compliment, and i think its hard to deny that you guys do control most of the european economy.I know that last one is totally off topic but,I just had to add my 2 cents

Elite 2 is soooooo much bigger then FL. Once I had to shift-jump (Force a misjump to a random point so that the bad guys can't follow you) and I ended up some 3500 lightyears away from Earth. I think I could do a max of 10 lightyears per jump but the fuel would never had lasted without a jetscoop to refuel the ship. There were systems around me but since the misjump busted up my jumdrive I was stranded. Good news was that I had 3 (I think) female crewmates and you know how being the only human male in a 3000 lightyear radius turns women on.

I have never been able to repeat it though... Also in Elite 2 you could mine and a bunch of other stuff. You could explore unexplored systems and such if you wanted to... so don't tell me that FL is larger then Elite 2...

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FL is good, but watch out for the X-Universe. It will blow you away.

Edited by - Cmdr.Wiggin on 16-03-2003 01:31:16

How can you compare Elite 2 to Freelancer?!? If I've ever seen a trolling comment then that'd be it.

Elite 2 was an enjoyable game (which is more than you'll hear from most who played it) but it doesn't even come close to Freelancer in terms of enjoyability and immersability. If you love to **** over rediculously exact physics then maybe you'd have a sweet spot for Elite 2 but don't spout crap that it's excetionally better because your talking out your a$$.

I didn't say Elite 2 is a better game. I only replied to a post regarding the sizes of the two universes. Elite 2's universe was HUGE!

Yaminale said: You gotta be kidding me. Elite may have a dynamic economy but that's the only area where it's "better" than Freelancer. In terms of graphics, sound, story, ***shear size of the playing area*** and even dare I say it GAMEPLAY, it blows Elite out of the water.


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FL is good, but watch out for the X-Universe. It will blow you away.

Edited by - Cmdr.Wiggin on 16-03-2003 01:34:12

This is off topic... Although it is somewhat of an after-thought based on the whole WWII discussion.

Isn't it weird that in the 30th century, where spacecrafts are as common as cars, humans still use weapons with such primitivity that you have to fire them manually and within 1 km (or whatever unit is used in the game) of range?

Either way, It is undeniable that you can only attack when the targets are within visual range and the chance of hitting the target is solely dependent on the pilot's aim. Even back in the second world war, weapons were being fired from BVR. Today we can fire an ICBM from half a globe away, avoiding enemy radar and interceptions, while still hitting its target; but in a millennium, we can shoot no further than the ancient Romans?

(This is the last paragraph from my last post... as a conclusion)*

I have seen numerous posts concerning the naive economics, the unlikely physical depictions, and even the contradictory political stances in the game; but perhaps what we crave isn't really realism, rather a form of common consensus that we believe to be true. For that no matter how close a game can emulate real life, it never is?

* for some reason I can't upload more than 2k at once... still looking for a fix...

Well I think it's safe to say taht Trent doesn't exactly have the financial capabilities of the United States government, after all he is a FreeLancer...

Plus I think Liberty's ships are equal to those of Rheinland and the other sectors. I just think that for the game's sake they toned down the ships that you see in the New York sector and the ones you can buy, namely the power and armor stats on them. Yes, Juni flies a defender the entire game. But if you take the tiem to scan her cargo and look at her weaponry and pilot level, you notice that it increases as the game progresses. She starts equipping level 7 weapons on her liberty heavy fighter, that can only support up to level 4 (the one you can buy, at least). Also, during your final battles, when you get guys from all the systems together together at once (I dont think that's a spoiler), you'll notice that each guy has a high pilot level, and high weapon levels. So, ultimately, one could say that if the game were unscaled, all the systems would be about equally powerful, where the one thing that really mattered would be quantity, and it seems to be a fact in this thread that liberty wins in that column.

To sum up what I said: All ships in all systems (i dunno about Border Worlds) are equally powerful, but the game limits them for the rpg-style weak to strong character and enemy potential.

Zamboni...Very good point dude. Look at the F22, Lockheed Martins new fighter. THat thing can take out any aircraft or ICBM (possibly, anybody comment on this) before they even knew their foe was present. But then again it is a video game

"In 1939, Germany had the MOST advance military in the world."

I disagree for the reasons I argued in my previous post.

"They were the first country to adopt mechanized armor formations as the foundation of thier army (Britian France and the US experimented but never went beyond that until the fall of France). The Luftwaffe was the first true modern airforce flying stressed metal monoplanes while most countries were still flying fabric covered bi-planes"

This is true, HOWEVER, the fact that they had advantages in certain areas of technology doesn't negate the fact that they had serious, and ultimately fatal, deficiencies in others.

Wow, who would have thought that posting a comment about a computer game causes a discussion about WW2, the European economy, interstellar warfare and the like
Anyway, I have two more points I´d like to discuss : Newtonian physics like in I-War 2 and the design of the ships. Why do most of them look like airplanes ?
Any suggestions ?