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Freelancer Doomed?

This is a free discussion forum on Freelancer. This is the place to discuss Freelancer issues NOT covered by the other boards!

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:02 am

Freelancer Doomed?

Ok...so maybe I've been reading too many forum topics or something - but it seems that what everyone wants out of "Freelancer" is going to be made reality in "Eve" which is to be released on May 6th. I personally find the monthly subscription a bit high. My question is how many people are planning on abandoning Freelancer for Eve? Is Freelancer doomed?

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:55 am

Eve is online only isn't it? And you pay for it? Not a chance will it take over. Freelancer will reign until something better comes along. I have about 4 games I play online amongst the hundred or so I own. MOHAA, IL2 Sturmovik, Raven Shield, Silent Hunter II and now Freelancer. There are tons I have rejected as being crap online but good single player. I'm not risking a subscription cost to find out I don't like it and to be honest I haven't got the time to invest in an online world. Freelancer's good for an hour crabbed here or there.

Gig

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:41 am

I agree... I can't stand MMOGs. Why would I want to pay a subscription fee so that I could be mistreated by the kind of people I avoid IRL?!? Hello!? No thank you! EVE won't draw me away from Freelancer.

If EVE does add everything that Freelancer is missing then I doubt it will be very successful anyway. If the game manages to satisfy the realistic <giggle> experience that the hardcore player wants then it will, most likely, fail to draw a mainstream audience. I doubt that the hardcore fanbase is big enough to support a MMOG. After all, it's a fairly rare gamer who wants to play a game that feels more like homework.

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:04 am

I hate games that are all essentially about levelling up. I want access to everything now. Thats my only real annoyance in Freelancer the levelling situation, there are better ways of restricting choice rather than levels.

Eve I suspect will be about running as many high profit trade runs as you can, just to build up and get the best ship and weapons any organic feeling of exploration or completing missions is lost in whelter of stats and figures. This desperation to level up blights many games.

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:40 am

I don't buy a game to then afterwars pay to even play it. That is really a capitalistic way of selling games. It's all about money. And it sux.

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:03 pm

Hi Tomus

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:21 pm

The main problem with MMORPG's, and MMOGs in general, is the "gameplay" is always based on the business model, which is based on the subscription fee. So the focus is always on keeping current players playing (not hyperbole: this is 100% true of every subscription based game on the market). This is accomplished by providing a tread mill and a dangling carrot. You know, instead of actually providing "fun" and "entertainment", they give you an endless ladder and then point towards everyone who's ahead of you on the endless ladder and rely on your natural competitive spirit to motivate you to get ahead of those people (who are all racing to get ahead of the people ahead of them, etc etc etc).

Or, in short, the problem with MMORPG's is there's never any justification for that "G" at the end of the acronym.

Also, and this is the issue that prevents people with brains from returning to the MMORPG model after finally breaking free:


Why would I want to pay a subscription fee so that I could be mistreated by the kind of people I avoid IRL?!?


Perfectly put, Gig. End of discussion. Period.

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:25 pm

Hi emale how are you? :-)

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:32 pm

Gig: I'll admit Freelancer is growing on me (SP post-campaign - MP doesn't do much) but I think you're missing the point when folks ask for realism.

Most gamers have a threshold for suspension of disbelief (enough details and consistency that a player isn't constantly being reminded the experience is an illusion). Now, if your life experience is videogames and comic books you'll probably have a much lower threshold for suspension of disbelief. If your experience is space simulators and a wide range of reading you'll have a different threshold for suspension of disbelief.

Can things that have never existed be simulated? Of course. That's the point of military wargame and scientific testing simulations. You take things that are real and modellable and project those traits into the situations you're curious about. For computer games a high level of accuracy isn't quite as important but the principle is the same. A game designer making games for knowledgable people just needs to ask himself "What would it be like to?" His job is answering that question in a way that both rings true and entertains. He also needs to look at precident in game design to understand what's already been done and how to build on it or correct shortcomings.

What does that mean for Freelancer? Well, if you take this line of thinking as a litmus test it does better than you might think. If you discount the SP campaign, as scripted campaigns in trading space sims are beside the point, and just look at the gameplay and setting there's something there. The complexities of political relationships between factions and the detail that's given to the factions, places and overall setting is unprecidented (at least outside of strategy games). The visual realization, while not scientifically accurate, is a good projection of 'locality.' You get a good feeling for each region much like an sailing captain might and you learn to navigate it by a combination of exploration and word of mouth (via NPCs). That's a pretty interesting projection of the old tall ships era of exploration, trade and piracy. And, besides, it looks much cooler than a black void.

Where Freelancer doesn't do so well is in living up to gameplay standards.

Essentially you have this sublime universe to explore and you're exploring it in an ship straight out of Defender. Point and shoot. The progression, as noted above, is more modelled on a 1970's roleplaying game than any attempt at creating an experience as immersive inside the cockpit as outside it.

Imagine yourself as Han Solo, he's the rolemodel for this entire genre of games. What was the Millenium Falcon experience like for him? Point and shoot? No, there was daring maneuvering, calculating jump paths, fixing damage during battle, managing (screaming at) Chewy, and over time fixing and tweaking up his beloved and customized ship. Oh, and he had a friggin' cockpit to sit in. These last two - keeping a ship over time and getting to know it inside and out, as intimately and with as much effort as you get to know the Freelancer setting, should be the Freelancer experience. And you really do need a cockpit with functional displays (as well as padlocks and pan views) to create the sense of piloting. Instead you have a disposable trophy and a limited upgrade or modification path as there is only one way to go - bigger faster and stronger. No trade offs, no compromises, no way you'll ever want a different ship than one of the three big boys at the endgame.

The economy is entirely static which is definitely a throwback to, well, I don't know. Almost every space-sim trading game has had a dynamic economy - that's always been the point.

Anyhow, I don't know much about Eve and I'm skeptical about MMORPGs but who knows. Freelancer is a wonderful game, unprecidentedly good, in several respects and I'll just pretend the silly and annoying and repetative (did I mention missions yet?) stuff aint there while I focus on the positive.

All that and not one mention of joysticks (which, in truth, I'd prefer but I can live without if they get the other stuff right).


Edited by - OddjobXL on 28-04-2003 14:36:09

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:34 pm

pretty good. MAde some cash last night on a small arms run but seem to be having difficulty in building the monies up to a serious level. Tried going out hunting rouges which works for a while till a bigger fish comes along!

Damn fun game though!

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:51 pm

hmn the forum bugged while posting, and said already posted, though it dont show when I refresh... sorry if it dublicates.

okies let me tell you something about EVE....
1. It works on mouse clicks.... no fancy manuevers, and quite annoying at times
2. The game (as it is right now in beta) is IMHO focused abit tooo much on trade.
3. Character creation is AWESOME!... yeah yeah different skills, but making those portaits kept me busy for QUITE some time =)
4. The universe is 360 degrees, where as FL is flat(kinda)
5. MUCH better grafics, bases, ships, just about everything
6. More things to do, like mining stuff and change it at bases, build stuff (ships/weaps and so on)
7. Missions, things like bounty hunting, exploring for cash (bringing back "bookmarks" as proof), curior(cant spell it =P) missions.
8. Simple Rep. status. -10 to +10, which affect everyone.
9. Clans, and in the beta, some of these clans have been granted the right to have a BASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nice!
10. Beta=1.0000000000000000000000000000 bugs and error messages
11. Stuning.... for a time.... then begining to be boring.

I never quite fell for the game, dispite some of the nice features...
I'm sticking with FL, and hoping against hope for a REALLY good patch or a expansion.

"Keep it icy, man .. I dont want to end up a corpse before my time, because YOU were daydreaming[!"

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:40 pm

Like Darken I got bored fast with Eve in beta. The clumsy click move space travel and targeting left me cold right off. Cannot fault the graphics, superb, but not enough to keep me interested. Entry to some of the clans already set up is prohibitive with too many people taking it too seriously (who the hell wants to join a corporate faction run like a capitalist state by ****s who want to interview you before they will let you in - sheesh !). It all left a bad taste with me and then I found Freelancer - happy now

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:51 pm

well I played FL before EVE, and wanted to see if the statement:
"eve is like freelancer, just bigger and better" was true....
Think of a hybrid between FL and EVE and tears should be falling
from your eyes.... if you are a true space freak =)

Had the statement been true (in my eyes) then EVE would have gotten on
my VERY short short list of online games, that I would consider paying for...
no game has ever gotten that far yet though.... some have gotten pretty close,
but after some (in one case, extensive) testing, I've always dropped the idea.



"Keep it icy, man .. I dont want to end up a corpse before my time, because YOU were daydreaming[!"

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:26 pm

I have a shocker for you. I don't play online although I have a cable modem. I like single player stuff. I'm an old Descent fan. But i'm hooked on Freelancer even though I have a $150 CH Products USB Joystick that is just sitting there gathereing dust right now. No way am I going to sign up for a monthly fee just to play online. I don't think Freelance is quite dead yet.

Thank You Glock 36 Asset Recovery R US

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:31 pm

i doubt that people who are currently playing Freelancer will switch to EVE. but EVE will probably appeal more to casual gamers (as most MMORPGs do).

----

"Ever get that feeling you're standing on plastic?"
- Xenos guy

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