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Freelancer Doomed?

This is a free discussion forum on Freelancer. This is the place to discuss Freelancer issues NOT covered by the other boards!

Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:12 pm

DAoC was fun for the first 20 levels, or so, of a few classes. Thereafter it was entirely a treadmill, and other classes started feeling like photocopies of the one's I'd already played. Overall it wasn't worth the money paid-- I've had more fun playing non-subscription games.

(And tech support from Mythic? ROFL)

You know what I'm sick of? People like you who take personal offense and lash out at people because of differing opinions. I'm not wrong to view subscription games as a waste of money, because for me they are. I'm glad you are having fun with DAoC, but for me it sucked. I won't ever again pay money for a game that I can't play without continuing to pay money. Not ever .

Gig

Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:33 pm

Genre is an excellent indicator of the content of a game, I'm sorry but it is. The whole point of following a genre is because you can be reasonably assured of the content. Judging a game by genre is not only fair--it's practical!

As for MMOGs, nothing you've said makes me feel any differently. You say that you can make decent progress playing two hours a day as if it's an insignificant thing. Two hours a day! I play two hours a week! Two hours a day is a significant demand on your time... one quarter of a work day... No, my experience with MMOGs is definitely not worth that kind of investment of time or any investment of money.

Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:35 pm


first of all, 13 bucks a month is not bad, AT ALL, unless, like most people apparently are notorious cheapskates


I resent that. You might want to reconsider those words so that you don't offend people who might not live in USA or Japan or Western Europe or plainly have a differing taste. Besides, nobody ever said that 13$/month is absolutely not worth it. They just have other priorities other than shelling out an extra 100 bucks/year for a tertiary necessity, unlike you. You obviously enjoy MMORPG, have the financial means to pay for it, then good. Just accept that other people might have other priorities when it concerns money, and that does not give you the right to call them cheapskates.

Post Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:37 pm

I had looked at EVE with some hope, although to be honest, I don't usually play games enough during the month to justify the 13$ charge (or whatever it is).

As for X2, I probably will be taken away from Freelancer in most ways when X2 comes out. The problem is that X2 doesn't offer multiplayer. While I think X2 will satisfy those who were hoping that Freelancer could be the next Elite, you can't join up with a friend and go terroizing a trade lane. Because of this fact, I'll have both games on my hard drive. Personally, I'm a big fan of the single player experience, and X2 will probably go down as one of my all time favorites. But Freelancer is perfect for my multiplayer sessions. A few hours every now and then, just jump in and get right into the action.

Post Thu May 01, 2003 4:02 am

I really enjoyed Freelancer while it lasted but without an add-on or some fairly significant patches it will be no match for X2.

I've been closely following the development of X2 for years and it is going to completely blow everything that has gone before out of the water. Unlike the DA guys the Egosoft people participate in the forums and this time are delivering the game the fan base wants.

Post Thu May 01, 2003 5:14 am

Ok, first of all, DaoC, or any game for that matter is what you make of it, i completely disagree with the fact every class is the same, you decided to do nothing but level, thats your decision, besides that, classes are extremely different, in no way does one class even come NEAR another class, their in the same class only because their dividied between Spellcasting, Summoning, and Melee, but i digress, i NO way, whatsoever are they the same in any way, you played it like a treadmill, and did nothing but level, if i understand correctly (i have had friends that have done the same) you never get much money, you dont play many quests, dont realize the games is more like 3 games in one (with completely different races, themes, and people divided by realm) you, if you got to level 20 you never go to experience the Battlefields, which are almost the core of the game, the huge battles between extreme numbers of players and castle sieges. Like i said, a game is what you make of it, just like a lot of people leveled to 38 and completed single player and said "is that it?" you leveled to 20 (which is very weak, with literally no money, none of the really good skills, and literally no rank, or good equipment yet) and said "was that it?" same thing.

Btw, when i said cheapskates, i was mostly referring to the people in the USA, as they have enough to shell out 50 $ for freelancer, while for the same money, you get DAOC for 20 $, and get 3 months of play time (first month being free) so in no way do i think i was wrongly accusing anyone, if i did, im sorry, but i just cant stand people who groan on and on about the monthly fees, first, their NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER over 13 bucks a month and you get the kind of game quality and updates you can NEVER EVER EVER EVER get in a single-player/Multiplayer games. and for the guy who said mythic support sucks, yeah, that was true, about...........oh.....a year ago, when it first launched they were completely disorganized, it even says so on the official site www.camelotherald.com so, in essence, ALOT has changed, im not trying to convince people into trying or playing it, i just dont like the fact people can say that a certain genre sucks, because, if you ignore every genre except certain favorite ones, youll miss many many many a great game, even games that may suck you in to new genres. Well, ok, enough, do as you wish, i cant change anything, but with all due respect, in no way do i understand hows its not shameful to consider yourself a gamer when your completely biased to certain games and genres, btw, for the dumbass who takes everything literally, in essence i meant POSSIBLY, every FEW days i have time to play 2 hours, and thats RARE, very RARE.

Post Thu May 01, 2003 6:38 am

you guys crack me up! argueing over this. would i leave FL for EVE? in a NY minute if its a more enjoyable gaming experiance, which wont be to hard considering the script kiddies

Post Thu May 01, 2003 8:40 am

Well I live in the USA and didn't pay $50 for freelancer - it was a gift.
$13 a month is too high a price for me because I am disabled with emphysema (hense my nick) - a back injury, and have very little income.
This doesn't make me cheap - it makes me poor!
LOL

Post Thu May 01, 2003 5:28 pm


Ok, first of all, DaoC, or any game for that matter is what you make of it


Except in the case of MMORPG's where it's what everyone makes of it. But, please, continue.


i completely disagree with the fact every class is the same


Good for you. I played DAoC for nearly a year and experimented with different classes and different realms. I didn't say every class was the same, I said they felt like photocopies of eachother. There really is a difference between those two statements, whether you're able to understand that or not.


you decided to do nothing but level


No, I didn't. Don't be a jackass. There just wasn't much else to do or accomplish. Once you've seen every place there is to see for your current level/character, completed the twenty quests you're limited to (and if you're lucky, tackled your epic), what's left? You find yourself in need of leveling up just so you'll have quests again and maybe be strong enough to survive exploring out a little bit further.


in no way does one class even come NEAR another class


Saying it makes it so!


, their in the same class only because their dividied between Spellcasting, Summoning, and Melee, but i digress, i NO way, whatsoever are they the same in any way


You're drooling all over your shirt. Next time when trying to make a point, try not to contradict yourself in the process. It's embarrasing for the rest of us.


you played it like a treadmill, and did nothing but level


There you go making stupid assumptions again.


if i understand correctly


I doubt this is a problem you often find yourself afflicted with.


...snip, more retarded assumptions.



experience the Battlefields, which are almost the core of the game


Not the only advertised core to the game, though. Part of the hype and marketing behind DAoC was that PvP (RvR) would be entirely optional. I found the RvR to be boring and dull, so excuse me for apparently not enjoying the only part of the game that Mythic can arguably be said to have followed through on.


the huge battles between extreme numbers of players and castle sieges.

...dropping framerates to a 2FPS slidehsow. Yawn.


you leveled to 20

There's your assumption again. Let me guess, you frequently go out in public with no pants on, don't you?


Btw, when i said cheapskates, i was mostly referring to the people in the USA, as they have enough to shell out 50 $ for freelancer, while for the same money, you get DAOC for 20 $, and get 3 months of play time


When I bought DAoC it was $50. But that doesn't matter, I still believe the price was not worth the gameplay provided. There simply is not enough gameplay, and at the end of the day if you stop paying you can nolonger play. Sometimes I like to put down a game for a month, sometimes even a year, and come back to it later. You can't really do that with MMORPG's. Once you put it down, it's gone. You'll have to start paying to play again, and you'll have to start from the ground up. To me that makes this gaming model a rip off and I'm not willing to join that sort of gaming model ever again.


their NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER over 13 bucks a month


A better cost evaluation is in order.

Doom: purchased for $20.
Played for two years as an active member of the mod community.
Total cost: $20

Now lets apply that to your precious DAoC.

DAoC: purchased for $20
Played for two years (no, I played it for a little less than one year, but lets see how much that would cost compared to Doom's $20 when played for the same duration)
$319

Yes, over $300 compared to $20. That's quite a difference.


and you get the kind of game quality and updates you can NEVER EVER EVER EVER get in a single-player/Multiplayer games.


Not true. Seriously.


and for the guy who said mythic support sucks, yeah, that was true, about...........oh.....a year ago, when it first launched they were completely disorganized


So they got their act together finally? Yay for them. Do I get a refund now? I'll go check my mailbox.


i just dont like the fact people can say that a certain genre sucks


Why does this bother you so much?


because, if you ignore every genre except certain favorite ones, youll miss many many many a great game, even games that may suck you in to new genres.


Oh, that's why it bothers you? Thanks for coming in and saving us from ourselves Sir Knight. No , it bothers you because you've gone and tied your Ego to a GAME (like many people here have tied their ego's to FL and wet their undies in rage anytime someone has a negative comment about it). This is a mistake. It's unhealthy. Why? Because at the end of the day DAoC is still a putrid pile of filth, which will undoubtedly lead to another spike in your blood pressure.

Edited by - Sapient6 on 01-05-2003 18:28:55

Post Thu May 01, 2003 6:01 pm

I totally agree. Raising wild animals in captivity is a senseless and barbaric activity that only serves to line the pockets of the....

Oh wait....<reading thread>....

Oops. Wrong topic.

Haha. No seriously, I haven't actually read the entire thread, just Sapient's last post. That being said, I cannot offer an opinion one way or the other, because I do not even know what Eve is, or that other game you guys are talking about. But I did want to say that I laughed my ass off at Sapient's retort. Well done. Espcially the part about going out in public with no pants on...

Classic...

Anyway, I have no helpful information to offer this thread...so...bye!



Those are my thoughts, not yours, I'm WapCaplet[!

Post Thu May 01, 2003 6:09 pm

First-time poster here. Hi all! This probably isn't the greatest first post ever, but it sort of struck a chord in me, so here goes....


Ok, first of all, DaoC, or any game for that matter is what you make of it


Except in the case of MMORPG's where it's what everyone makes of it. But, please, continue.


And this is the reason I hated Asheron's Call, hated DAOC, and - as much as it pains me - won't be playing Star Wars Galaxies when it comes out. MMORPGs aren't geared for the casual gamer, as much as people would like to admit they are. They're geared for people who go home at night after work* and log in; or, if they have a social life, they macro all day and then go home and continue to level.

To the casual gamer (that'd be me), MMORPGs are completely and utterly imbalanced. I've seen two very good friends of mine get sucked into Asheron's Call, to the point where one friend bought a second computer simply so he could run macros and dual-log. Meanwhile, I'm supposed to compete with that type of person in a PvP field?

*dopeslap*It's A Game *dopeslap*. This one single statement should completely negate any argument that may use "you just aren't devoted enough to MMORPGs" as its basis for argument. Please note that MMORPG ends in a G - this means Game, not Way Of Life; they don't call them MMORPWOLs.

And this is despite the whole "pay to play" structure that MMORPWOLs have set up. I find the whole concept absolutely absurd and more than a bit offensive; I've spent fifty dollars on your game, so I now have the privelidge of spending thirteen dollars a month to actually play it? At least kiss me before you screw me. [ So what if you get great tech support and instant upgrades and yadda yadda yadda - if the game were good enough to begin with, I shouldn't have to PAY for patches!!

This is one of the reasons FL appealed to me so much - in an era of so many MMORPGs coming out left-and-right, FLs multiplayer seemed a refreshing reminder of what online games used to be - FUN.

(Sorry about the edits - gotta get used to yet another forum code).

- Mogus

"But then I sigh; and, with a piece of scripture, Tell them that God bids us do good for evil: And thus I clothe my naked villany with old odd ends stolen out of holy writ; And seem a saint, when most I play the devil." - William Shakespeare, Richard III (Act I, Scene III)


Edited by - Mogus on 01-05-2003 19:12:30

Post Thu May 01, 2003 6:57 pm

I really have to add something to this discussion that has become less a question of Eve taking players from FL and more a debate of the legitimacy of pay-to-play MMOGs.

I am not going to say that MMOGs are worth or not worth the money, but you are definitely not just paying for "patches" when subscribing to an MMOG. What you are paying for is huge - and by huge I mean multiple gigabit - bandwidth and computing horsepower, mostly. For example, a large chunk of DAoC's $13 a month is being passed on from the player to Mythic Entertainment to Worldcom, who is Mythic's ISP. And I can assure you, the game is not running on a room full of white-box Intel or AMD PCs with Linux on 'em. Sure, you are also paying for a permanent development staff to add content and create patches and such, but the majority of cost is the infrastructure necessary to support having 100,000 people connecting simultaneously.

On the storage side of things, SW:G is limiting the game to one character per server per account. Why? Because so much data has to be stored that they couldn't afford it with reasonable monthly fees. In the days when you can easily put 1 terabyte of disk space in your desktop for $1000, you can't get 3 terabytes of data storage at the enterprise level for under $300,000. Whereas the typical home PC has a pricepoint of about $1 per gigabyte, storage for this sort of thing has a pricepoint of around $65 to $100 per gigabyte. Thats just for one box. And you need multiple boxes for redundancy. And then there's the fabric switches or full-blown directors, the HBAs (HBAs - fiber network cards - can easily clear $500 a piece), and the fiber instrastructure itself. Its called a SAN, and its not cheap.

Looking at FLs MP requirements, I would be interested to see someone who could even support a 64-player MP server running 24 hours a day and not charge a dime for it. The hardware would be really expensive (its gotta have the horsepower to deal with the inherent Windows overhead) and the OC-3 (I would guess at a minimum) would be at least several thousand dollars a month. T-1s and T-3s are fairly easy to come by these days with businesses buying huge pipes, allowing partitioning of a little extra 1.5 Mb to throw at a game server.

For some people, the fact that every face you see has a real person controlling it makes the monthly fee worth it. For others, being able to select fifteen close friends and have the world all to themselves is the preferred way to play.

Neither one is outrageously ridiculous or worthy of shame. Its just a matter of preference...

If people who drink Bud Light don't like it, odds are its pretty good beer...

Edited by - jcdick1 on 01-05-2003 20:43:13

Post Thu May 01, 2003 7:17 pm


For some people, the fact that every face you see has a real person controlling it makes the monthly fee worth it. For others, being able to select fifteen close friends and have the world all to themselves is the preferred way to play.


This is absolutely the bottom line. Whether you view "Massively Multiplayer" to be worth $13 a month or not. For someone like me who finds the Massively Multiplayer aspect to actually be the downside to these games, the $13 a month will never be justified. I prefer single player or multiplayer on a private server with a small group of friends.

If you Massively Multiplayer appeals to you (if you enjoy running around with 1337 kiddies, griefers, cheaters that make up the vast majority of the players in these games) then the only way you're going to get that is by paying a monthly fee. And that will make the monthly fee worth it, since a service like that is expensive to provide.

Post Thu May 01, 2003 7:41 pm

I was looking forward to SWG until I found out about a monthly fee, same goes for eve. Ask me for a fiver a month - np
13 is too much no matter how good everything else is and when there's games to be bought and even mods to download which last longer and are in my opinion more fun. Bringing back up the point made by another poster there about someone having two computer's.
They could run macros on one etc - sorry i can't compete with that and am not willing to sacrifice a huge chunk of my life to do so either.
Same goes for eve and the rest of them, I've kinda given up on them myself at the mo, although eve looks incredible and I would like to try it out, I probably won't.

Also, I like to be submerged in my filthy gaming habit but I don't want it to take over, I've heard too many stories about students borrowing money so they can play for months on end, run up debt, fail exams and in some cases losing jobs to make time to play :/

Can't be having any carry on like that, I like to get home after work and fire up a game of choice and shoot em up or in this case run a trade run, fly a new ship or whatever for a while before it's time for beddy bye's, the whole MMORPG scene just seems ott to me. All flames graciously accepted and duly ignored, their my views on it ...

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