Too bad that doesnt apply here. FooGoo broke the first law of Role Playing in a server when he took the fight to the Guild for something they are not responsible for. Geez, am I the only one who doesn't get it? Maybe I am.

For the umpteenth time:

Freelancers Punisher and Stalker attack other players. FooGoo (aka GOV Extractor) attacks AE for those attacks. AE responds in the same manner that FooGoo did - it declares war. It declared UNRESTRICTED war on the same precept - FooGoo attacked loaded freighters in a ship that the freighters had absolutely no chance of defending itself against - his VHF. You want the "war" (similar at this point to the Phony War of 1939) to go away, you know what it now takes. I'll also tell you what would have prevented it, because it is not that difficult either. If FooGoo had gone after Punisher or StaLKeR or as GOV Extractor done the same, there would be no conflict between AE and GOV and all this flaming and round-table discussion would never have taken place.

If you read elsewhere, except in one case (Gregster2k) where I was given lies for information, AE has never attacked in that manner. (For a recap, Gregster2k was attacked based on the lies of a member of the Guild. The member was expelled for that and other offenses). Further, Gregster2k was offered compensation for any lost freight he may have had and for any damages incurred. If I remember correctly, he declined, and only want the name of the person who gave the bad information. It was provided to him. To my knowledge, there has only been 1 PK by anyone in a AE Tag, and that was Buster (Sabre) by 2 (yes - 2) Humpbacks (Buster blamed it on LAG, which may or may not be the case). For FooGoo to go off the deep end like he did was crap.

The unrestricted part will remain in effect until the cost of the the repairs and lost freight have been compensated. The war will remain ongoing until FooGoo (aka Extractor) admits he attacked outside of the roleplaying "ruleset" (Attacking a different Char for the actions of another).

As far as SD getting involved, I hope that they don't damage their credibility by changing their stance. They have openly declared that they will remain neutral and not get involved. They even went a step further and enacted an embargo against AE. I think, personally and as GXO, that the embargo should not be against GOV because they are a member of the USB. If they were to remain neutral in conflict, but financially assist GOV, they would be acting in a similar fashion to pre-Pearl Harbor USA with the assistance likened to the "Lend/Lease Act" that was in place during the months leading to 1941.

As Far as joining USB, I have posted elsewhere, but I will say it here. USB should be more like the UN - not a Federal "Oversight" group. The USB should protect non-aligned freelancers, should stay out of Interclan Politics completely, unless a member clan is attacked by an INVASIVE clan (one not currently on the server that represents the a threat to all players on the server, IE - USLF, Fringe Raiders, NEO, etc.). The UN can and does condemn wars, sends peacekeepers to prevent the collateral damage to innocents, and does try to keep things from flaring up into war. Sometimes it is successful, other times not. You want AE to consider joining, you now know what that will take.

Just to refresh, in case anyone missed it earlier, this isn't personal for me. I respect and admire the skills that other Freelancers involve have. It is all about, however, FooGoo doing the wrong thing. Until he corrects his mistake, per above, AE holds GOV responsible in the same manner FooGoo (aka Extractor) chose to hold AE responsible.

Hail Ceasar! Leader of the Free Peoples of the Holy Roman Empire.

Edited by - Justinian on 22-08-2003 18:37:50

Edited by - Justinian on 22-08-2003 18:38:58

Justinian ,

have no idea how you figure I am out of role playing and I broke it, I said from the begining, this char FooGoo is againt Punisher , stalker and in general now [AE.

If you do not know why let me explain a bit more, you and stalker both played pirates and shot people down less able to fight you, thats fine, but then you using your [AE char, even though they were freighters kill a player (buster) for no reason, You offer to fix the problem your pirate chars did using your clanned chars, that in itself broke the role playing of your chars being treated as seperate ones because you brought them both together as one by doing this action.

FooGoo has not brought [GOV into this and caused this hostility between fractions, you two have.

You have seen me since playing on the server as [GOVExtractor, I have treated [AE the same as I always have with that char becasue of his role.

Justinian, because I am the man behind the mouse for both players does not give you a reason to start this, you do not understand role playing, witch is fine, I am doing my best here to explain it to you.

You are more then welcomed to treat FooGoo as a pirate against your fraction because he is, you have every right to be mad at this char for shooting down your frieghters, that is his role.

But please try and understand foogoo is seperate from [GOV, always has been, always will, stop taking FooGoo's actions so personal and proclaiming a war on [GOV for your own personal reasons as they had nothing to do with these events.

I am not taking this personal, I might flame a bit but thats Healthy, after all, what pirate do you know that is nice =)

FooGoo

The FooGoo incident is just an excuse to do wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. "He did it to us, so we will do it to everyone." attitude is dumb. If AE is so low to stoop to antirole-playing ideals, threatens war on GOV, and threatens to commit acts of terrorism on all Freelancers in the Liberty System wether GOV or not, then GOV wants NO alliance with AE.

I invite Pinkie/Invincible to offer his sovereign opinion regarding the stance of AE. If it is the same as GXO, then GOV will declare war on AE upon the first incident that takes place inside of Liberty Space. But only after Invincible confirms AE's stance.

I ask SD to aid as our allies, as this is an attack on a USB member. Therefore we request mutual assistance in the event that AE official declares war on us per Invincible and carries out attacks.

Regulator
USB/GOV Website
Keep It Reasonable!!!

The reason that I, as GXO, offered to compensate Buster (as GXO) for any loss suffered was two-fold:

1.) Buster started complaining to Black Pearl about the attack by Punisher. It is possible he understands it less than you claim I do.

2.) The attack occured in a sector inside our jurisdiction, and I was attempting to resolve any hard feelings by offering a little good-will. As far as a PK in a freighter, Buster should have been able to deal with 2 of the least manueverable ships in the game. You certainly were able too.

You stated, in past posts (and I am paraphrasing), that you were basically holding AE responsible for Punisher and StaLKeR's actions. When you did that, you broke the rules. Especially since AE never had any argument with ANY of your characters. We are responding in the same manner. Here is the point I have been trying to hammer home:

GOV is no more responsible for "FooGoo", than AE is for Punisher or StaLKeR. When you linked the two Pirates actions to AE, you linked your actions as a Pirate to your clan. It isn't one-sided, and it has to work both ways.

As far as where you say: "...you and stalker both played pirates and shot people down less able to fight you...", you should know that Punisher flies a Hammerhead and StaLKeR flies a Valkyrie.

How is a Sabre (coincidentally, the ship attacked) less of a match for either ship in any encounter? It out guns, out shields, out Bots/Bats both ships. Unless the pilot is grossly incompetent there should be no contest. That doesn't change the fact that they are responsible for their skills, not Punisher or StaLKeR. Not that it matters, but I fly Punisher because mounting TDCs, and Nomads is boring. There is no skill required to fight that way as there is no energy used. It takes skill, finesse, and tactics to take down a better ship than what you are in, and you should know that.

You know what is required to end the conflict and at least enact a cease fire between the Guild and GOV. You must repay ABF-Freighter for lost cargo, and repay ABF-Black_Pearl for repairs needed, and admit you made a mistake. Your miscalculation brought this on. Also, does this mean that everytime AE/SD/GOV pks someone and they cry about it you are going on the warpath as FooGoo? It sounds like you are using your Pirate to do the job of the USB.

You have already had the Allied Exports Official position explained to you, Regulator. If you honestly believe that Pinkie and I are not in constant communication, then there is no futher point in discussion.

Whether GOV accepts it or not is moot. I am tired of explaining it and will not spend anymore time doing it.

Allied's stance on joining the USB remains the same as it has always been. The changes needed as listed are required for us to consider petitioning for membership.

Allied's stance on the war with GOV remains the same. The conditions of an official ceasefire remain the same.

Allied's stance on committing to unrestricted warfare remains exactly the same. It will attack any and all targets of opportunity as they present themselves. We make no distinction between tagged or non-tagged. We will not only attack the character, but anyone teamed with them. We don't have to stoop, we were dragged there by FooGoo.

Allied's stance regarding SD and RES remains the same. We view them in good-will as Neutral parties to this issue. We will not involve them in any manner.

There you go. Allied Exports position.

you still do not understand, at no time did foogoo bring [Gov, into this, you have, weather or not he attacked you in your frieghters or in a fighter does not matter, his own personal reasons for this do not matter, he acts alone and killed you, no matter how you look at it you were pirated, the rest does not matter since you do not understand it.

The person in the sabre was quite lagged and just about any ship could have shot it down, if you choose to shoot down a ship that is not moving thats up to you, if you choose to shoot down a ship of any kind while in a freelancer ship thats fine, FooGoo acted on his own for a personal friend that was sick of the abuse givin out by your chars, the fact you would stoop so low as to kill someone in sabre so easy with your frieghter and not undersand they have issue shows the intelect here we are dealing with...ok loosing my train of thought a bit,

We will look at it this way, FooGoo shot you down, weather you were in a [AE char or not, consider yourself pirated by him, that still in no way binds his actions to [GOV

Something else to consider is, if you treat people on the server a certain way, do not go screaming to the boards when someone does it back, you want a personal war with FooGoo thats fine, but to bring in Clans over this is absurd, put a bounty on him if you want, thats the right thing to do..

get over all this, you seem to like to spoil other peoples fun but have a problem when the same is done to you.

your problem is with FooGoo, not [GOV

Don't make this into a personal war, I am able to leave the clan out of it, you should too.



sorry about the triple post, was lagged or something =P


Edited by - FooGoo on 22-08-2003 22:18:13

Time for me to temporarily switch from pro-USB to neutral for the purposes of properly mediating this conflict and attempting to help all who are concerned.

Neither side here is completely innocent: neither of you are acknowledging the other side's views. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK. WHAT MATTERS IS WHAT THE OTHER SIDE THINKS. This whole argument is caused by false assumptions!

FooGoo...continuing to argue that you and Extractor are two entirely different personas will not change AE's stance and in fact will worsen the situation. Give it up, they believe differently than you. Accept it. Shouting at them the same thing will not make them change how they look at the situation.

[GOVExtractor, by any other known name, is, to Allied Exports, [GOVExtractor. As long as AE, or anyone else for that matter, knows that FooGoo is Extractor, actions of FooGoo are also made in the name of Extractor, and vice versa. Extractor was wrong to *assume* that AE would think otherwise.

However, AE is not acknowledging this mistake on FooGoo/[GOVExtractor's part ALONE. This wasn't any coordinated/ordered attack...it was an individual operating under their own agenda --- yet AE declares war. Plus, AE is not acknowledging that their actions, according to FooGoo, were what prompted FooGoo/[GOVExtractor to do what he did.

There are only 2 possible outcomes here, as far as i can tell:

---------- Outcome 1 (AE makes an allowance for the purposes of peace)
If AE does acknowledge the intentions of FooGoo, and they acknowledge that AE's actions caused FooGoo to act the way he did off duty from GOV, then...
*...... GOV and AE *could* coexist in peace again
*...... The best GOV could do to make amends is, MAYBE, to court-martial, severely reprimand, and/or put-on-probation [GOVExtractor (aka FooGoo), for not taking into consideration the *potentially serious political consequences* of his actions off-duty....

---------- Outcome 2 (War)
If AE continues acting as if this were an entirely unprovoked attack from [GOVExtractor and his clan, then...
*...... GOV must give up arguing their side; there will be nothing they can do to sway AE's opinion. NOTHING. I have already stated this above, specifically to FooGoo.
*....... AE might develop a bad rep as a very unforgiving and/or merciless clan, which in turn could potentially cause GOV to gain more recruits than AE and thus an advantage on the battlefield.

BTW: if both sides continue arguing an LR admin might lock this thread.
=============================================

One of these outcomes has to be chosen ASAP.

Edited by - Gregstar2k on 22-08-2003 23:04:11

im no longer going to act as a mediator and I do not want to be private messaged in FL regarding this mediation attempt. Greg out.

Copied from our forum is the following message from Pinkie. I would put a link to it, but I dont know how to do that. I tried html, and it didnt work. The link is:
http://alliedexports.proboards22.com/in ... 1061532422

Here is what he said:
Sorry, I've been AWOL the past few days moving back into my dorm. Um, give me a second to read things over here....


Correct, as I see it, the USB should be a tool for all the clans to interact and deal with happenings, not be a puppet for any 1 clan, whether it be SD or GOV.

I haven't really read anything with people calling someone else names, although Security does get a bit heated, but we're working on that.

AE will consider becoming a part of GOV, I will send out a message to my XO, and he will get a concensus of our members for their feelings. Should it be favorable, we will accept admittance to GOV, and our war will be over for now. I can see that any kind of charter will have to be redone, with every guilds freedoms in mind, including AE's.


As of now, and as soon as I post this, a cease fire will be issued. AE will be prohibited from firing upon GOV under any circumstance until we get this all sorted out.

WARNING: NOT BEING IN USB DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY A ROGUE STATE, SIMPLY THAT YOU DO NOT WISH TO PARTICIPATE IN THEIR PROCEEDINGS, NOR WILL YOU HAVE THEIR RULES IMPOSED ON YOU.


Barring any hesitance from SD, we will continue to have friendly military games.

AE: Do not make contact with GOV until this matter is set in stone.

GOV: It is advisable that you not make contact with any members other than myself or my XO. Misunderstandings happen more than they should.

Don't lie, it ruins your rep. Please, be honest, even in the wrong.

Drink milk.

Don't do drugs.


That's about all the wisdom I can dispense at this time, I do pray this answers some of your questions, and helps take care of our current situation.


Hail Ceasar! Leader of the Free Peoples of the Holy Roman Empire.

Glad to see a third outcome was possible: "Pinkie Saves the Day".
It will probably take about a night or so before everyone sees that post and stops fighting so don't expect the cease fire to happen right away but I'll spread the word, Justinian.

---- Gregster2k

P.S. This does not change my attitude toward AE in any way shape or form, I'm just glad to see that you're willing to talk.

We were always willing to talk.

Hail Ceasar! Leader of the Free Peoples of the Holy Roman Empire.

I leave for a few days, and it goes from a little scuffle in the sandbox to napalming the sob. I guess I'll have to keep a closer eye on all of you. And yes, I saved the day, I mean hell, somebody's got to.


[AE_Pinkie_Epsilon_5

Guild President
Allied Exports

Pinkie I hope you can reconcile things but isn't your XO the root of all these problems.

I better Chime in while the getting is good.

as some of you know [RES is Neutral to any conflicts that may arise on browclopisa. its in RES best intrest not to ally with a faction or clan.

RES's goal is to help people and if possible make some money doing it
"think of res as the switzerland during WW 1 & 2" thx Gxo for the quote we dont want trouble

just to state RES polices as follows:

1.) RES will not attack ANYONE unless attacked or in defense of the client

2.) Any RES member or client WILL NOT provoke and/or cause conflict with anyone unless provoked. If so the client is on there own.

3.) all clients under RES protection are not to be attacked until Conformation of Res's job is done.

4.) The client must be protected at all cost!



"We Die So You Dont Have To cause"

"Valkryie the offical ship the RES"
Email: [email protected]


Edited by - stikfas spacemonster on 23-08-2003 09:28:25