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In my experience, most of the whiners want the recognition of excelling at the game, without the challenge that makes excelling noteworthy in the first place. So many people seem completely unable to take personal reponsibility for their own excellence. They would like to be spoon-fed excellence. It's laughable.

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Very very laughable. You know what I think would make the best and most challenging server to excel in. A server with no rules(except no modding, F1 cheat, or excessive vulgarity). If I made a server, I would encourage all types of mean spirited play.

1-Kill noobs.
2-Dock camp.
3-Tax and Toll.
4-Foil missions.
5-Blow up freighters.
6-Disrupt trade lanes.
7-Claim Territories.
8-Etc Etc

I would call it "No Noobs Server" or "PvP Hostile Server" or "Ultimate PvP Challenge" or "Extreme PvP" or "Cut Throat PvP" or "Everything Goes" or something like that. Only players that want the most challenge would play there. I would want to encourage freighter players to try to do trade runs with other players that would stop them.

I can't make a server just yet, but if someone else with really good equipment and connection would like to make one with these rules, then please do. I would play there and I bet a lot of others would be proud to say they do too and made it.

Regulator
USB/GOV Website
Keep It Reasonable!!!
Edited out redundant sentences.
Edited in F1 cheat rule.

Edited by - Regulator on 13-08-2003 17:34:33

I agree with you Regulator, the fun is when you feel it like real world. But the games is full of flaws. Its not even close to imitate the real space, for instance this F1 sh!t(I already was expiranced that).

If and when the virtual univerce will come close to reality all your prophecy will come true, It will be similar to barbarian world, then clans like neo and notec will rise from those barbarians, they will live by sword. As long as those clans rule, the bitterness will overwhelm in common folks and they also group toghether.

Oh i think i seen it somewhere....

Moby

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Besides which, I have killed many a dromedary/humpback using a drake. Guess what? They whined. Now why is that, since their freighters are worth so much more than my Drake? Could it be they never wanted any challenge at all, let alone a fair one? On this note, I'm thinking of grabbing a dagger and destroying a few equal leveled rhino's. Would that be wrong? I mean, assuming I catch them in Shikoku or something, and it doesn't violate server rules, would it be wrong?

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Not to pick nits, but Drake & Drom are both level 10 ships. Drake is truly awesome, able to tackle all but the Eagle!

Speaking for myself, if I'm flying my level 30+ Drom character in Shikoku your challenge is fun and I pit my
evasion skills against you knowing full well if your drake catches me I'm toast. If I lose my cargo, well that's
the game, eh? Whine? Not unless you dock rape me or something equally cheap-shot, then you're a loser in my eyes.

Of course, if I'm level 12 Drom then I probably can't afford to lose my cargo and getting PKed hurts a lot more.
If I'm in Shikoku, I knew the risk and much as I hate it I gambled and lost. A noob in a Rhino? He may not even know
he's in danger, and you should be sporting and act the Pirate & hail him. However. if I'm in Liberty and you come
after me it's F1 bye-bye because YOU are breaking the rules and screwing up my risk-assessment.

Outside of Liberty (on a no-PvP in Liberty server like Elite) the F1 cheat should earn a place on all KOS lists.
It's not grounds for ban, and nowhere near as bad offence as faked clan tags, but some explanations are justified.
It's different if your dueling someone and they pull this F1 cheat, Vs. someone who F1 the second they see you come
into radar range. Perhaps they are carrying weapons to their clan storage character and can't risk losing them.

"Got anything for me?" - Trent, A.K.A. 'Mr. Eloquent'

Edited by - Frobozz on 13-08-2003 17:49:46

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if you dont feel like telling the pker what you did, you can say "oh sry my foot hit the power strip under my desk" or something.

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One last rant then I'm done with this sorry topic. This really burns me here, as someone handicapped
with a crappy 56k modem connection and plenty of lag. We drop all the way to desktop frequently and
even more so in combat situations, even with AI if enough show up. I'd hate to be accused of F1 cheating
when that happens to me.

"Got anything for me?" - Trent, A.K.A. 'Mr. Eloquent'

Frobozz and many others. People point the finger at people too quickly and harshly. You always have to worry about being accused of stupid crap. Sometimes I wonder what the average age of the players are. If you get kicked off due to dial-up, you should be able to say it was your dial-up and everyone say "Oh. Ok. Cool." But no. There are lame people that abuse the trust of others and people that actually want to believe that your are lying so they can be pissed at you and spread the word that you suck.

It is easy to tell when someone is actually using the F1 cheat and when they aren't. But people want to believe that players are rule breakers anyway, so they are sometimes blinded from the truth. Enforceing rules should be done with common sense and understanding. Often, people are too quick to lop heads off and never listen to the defense. People consider the gray areas as part of the black area. They only see a sharp line between totally cheating and not cheating. It isn't that cut-n-dry when enforcing rules. Use common sense and keep it reasonable.



Regulator
USB/GOV Website
Keep It Reasonable!!!

Well, just to Iron something out.. Frobozz, I am 100% positive after reading many of your posts around the forums, that you would never whine. In fact, I expect that you are the type of person who finds the challenge entertaining. I do too, in my own way. I fly a drom and love getting picked on, because getting away is a real badge of honor in some situations. You have only supported admin rules as law, and I find nothing to disagree with on that point.

The post was not directed towards you, it was directed at the general care-bear anti-pk sentimentality that would destroy our servers and water down our enjoyment of the game, were it allowed to continue. Quite often, the whining voices are the loudest, since when the rest of us get waxed, we come out fighting, not typing. I honestly think the 'whining types' are in the minority, but still they post the most, setting foolish standards for our enjoyment. I have seen many a game utterly destroyed by this kind of thing. It's no idle threat. I will always fight it tooth and nail in whatever game I play.

Regulator: I would LOVE to play on a server like that. lol! The kind of server where you have to use the vertical just to get through a system infested with players. The kind of server where tradelanes are a calculated risk, since they speed you up, but increase the probability of enemy interception. The kind of server where you need a clan because travelling untagged = death, but if you can survive untagged, then you are all the more deserving of bragging rights. If ever there is a server like this, SIGN ME UP! I'd be willing to bet a server like that would be full inside of a month. Who could resist competing with the nastiest padres in the world of Freelancer? :p

Yes, I'd like to play on that type of server too.
Post something if you find one or get one going.

Is that a pocket of volatile gas?
No, that's a jumphole...

It just seems that servers are mucho more enjoyable when you have people you know on your server, then you can throw caution to the winds, forget about rules, and just get to what makes the game fun. everyone has opinions about how the MP part of this game should be, and that's why we have our choices of which server to spend time on. There's probably at least a 100 servers on the list every day. a shame that many seem to go unnoticed.

Freeport 9 is cool if you don't mind being neutral to all faction, which leaves you to pick your own faction by whatever means necessary. I've also been to servers that start you out as a liberty rogue. it really ups the challenge and fun level when you're running from the authorities, while having some powerful pirate factions as allies. The xeno server was a monster challenge since just about everyone hates you. One server plopped players right in freeport 9, and locked the jumpgates out of the edgeworlds, forcing a very confined game that was focused on the feud between the corsairs and outcasts, and that was a nice change from the typical freelancer MP game.

I myself host my own server (freelancer heaven) and change things around daily. some players were fortunate to have the juni defender or the anubis fighter. others started out with a stripped down rhino, while some entered as a pirate. I cycle the starting ships and factions daily to keep the gameplay varied and interesting, and throwing a few contests on the side to reward players who dedicate themselves to my server. but for all the things I try to do, the one truth I realized is that my server is just another out of hundreds. some people like it, some visited it a few times, and others don't care for the randomness I've put into my server, but that's just my own style.

This game is about having fun, and there's hundreds of servers to choose from. I've bought friendships hiring escorts, and have mercilessly destroyed other friends as part of the faction I represented at the time, but it was fun for everyone involved.

The most complaints I've read here, and the ones I see popping up in servers I been to are from people who just picked up the game and dived into MP. To those people I say this: play the game through once, then try out MP so you're not so disadvantaged. To people who complain about getting killed "unfairly", find other like minded people in the server and team up with them till you can fend for yourself. To the hosts of these servers, your job is to make sure everyone is having a fun time so they keep comming back tomorrow and the next day. If some players are ruining what you intended for your server, ie. cheating, flaming and being a general griefer for their own amusement, you're obligated to take steps. To the veterans who sympathize with newbs to MP and try to guide them to greater things, I applaud you. To players who delight in causing misery in others for their own twisted amusement, I only have this: DON'T GO TO MY SERVER!

remember, you share this virtual game world with others. fun is what's most important, not how well you can kill someone who's grossly outclassed, not how much creds you can aquire in under 2 hours, not your piloting skills, or lack of. respect others and still have fun. If you're not having fun, just go to another server, and why are we soooo off topic here? :p anyway, I'm done now.

___________________________________
There is no knowledge that is not power.

I will make a thread for the server type that I put above, so that we are on topic, but I think we have pretty much said what we want to say. If you guys want, you can copy and repost these comments under the new thread if you want. That way we got a better topic description.

Regulator
USB/GOV Website
Keep It Reasonable!!!

As many have said earlier, you play on a PK server at your own risk. The newbies choose their server in full knowledge of its rules. If they go whining about being killed on a PK server, people should ignore them unless they're being tracked down at every turn and destroyed by the same guy. That's wrong. I find it perfectly legitmate to lane hack neutrals and hostiles as long they're carrying something valuable. If they are, it's evident they aren't n00bs and may be attacked. That's good sport since people can check trade lane rings ahead, use engine kill for getaways and traffic high risk goods at their own risk. Tolling is wrong unless people are around the same level as the traders stand a chance in a scrap. Fox-guarding docks is as good as cheating as pilots cannot respond in kind for a short period. Stalking people is also wrong unless you have a revenge reason or simalarily acceptable excuse. The F1 cheat is also disgusting. It's good to honourably die or run without using F1 because now you know you're better at the game than that lvl 38 guy in an Eagle who uses it to regenerate his shields in combat. In conclusion: They're not laughing at you; they're laughing with you.

This, is my own last...erm...ESSAY on this topic. a post to end all my posts in this thread. Hopefully.

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(I said...)
'all starfliers in NY should all group up, form up, and move together as a single trading or AI bounty hunting unit.'
(to which Regulator said...)
".............................whales get a big catch of krill because they are in a school. If the krill always stayed away from eachother, then the whales would starve."

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........ Good point. What was I thinking?...especially when i then contradicted myself with this statement, which you misunderstood:

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'If the newbs actually played and moved around, they wouldn't be target practice for the higher level pilots'
(Regulator "That is kinda the same topic as the school thing. They are all grouped up waiting in line to be killed."

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What i mean is, if newbies actually are active, not sitting around New York doing nothing, STAY IN MOTION, and not sit around begging for money, they will live, and im sure of this, at least 300% longer than they would otherwise.

And no, i have never been on Elite. Yet. See my topic about that in the forum...I cant get in for some reason, but i need to confirm if its the account disabling or not. My point is, people have to get newbies rear in gear. I should probably start a new topic myself regarding that one.

The F1 "cheat" IMO is only a cheat if people use it to escape D U E L S. Period. NO OTHER THING...If a FFA between 10 players is getting hairy I believe you have the right to escape, thank you very much. However, using it to gain shields to fight people? No, I don't approve of that...and I stand by my logic which I will state agai: Don't punish...ignore. Give them the cold shoulder, brush them off and fly away. Do not humor duelers who exploit the F1 key by fighting them. If you fight them after they do it, you are, inadvertently, encouraging them to do it again.

...we all can use F1 against AI as we please, but using it against humans is bound to make a lot of people mad. Regulator is right - using it in duels...we gotta make it a "known bit of social edicate" to not do that. How to make it known, is up to the rest of you to figure out.

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Frobozz said:
"Outside of Liberty (on a no-PvP in Liberty server like Elite) the F1 cheat should earn a place on all KOS lists.
It's not grounds for ban, and nowhere near as bad offence as faked clan tags, but some explanations are justified.
It's different if your dueling someone and they pull this F1 cheat, Vs. someone who F1 the second they see you come
into radar range. Perhaps they are carrying weapons to their clan storage character and can't risk losing them."

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That is entirely unnecessary. I would recommend that only the people who see them do this deal with them themselves. Cowards should be taught a lesson, and what DO you do when a person sees you come into radar range and immediately hits F1? How do you deal with someone like that? Its DEAD simple, LITERALLY: Fly to their last approximate location, just in front of where they were heading...if you know...and when they reappear, blow them to bits. That will teach them a lesson in why bravery is better than cowardice. Plus...If i were in a clan, and I were leading it, I would kick out any member who does some chicken-F1ing like that, Frobozz. It wouldn't be good for clan reputation...

Regarding your Everything Goes concept, Regulator...such servers ARE more exciting...I have an example that I will post on your thread.

Gregstar2k,
I didn't misunderstand. I was agreeing with you, but my typing was unclear. I meant that since they aren't doing missions and they are all hanging out at NY, then they are easy targets. When they are sitting around, like you said they get killed. It is like a school of krill sitting in the same place all the time for the whales to come and eat. If they started doing missions, then they would be much harder to find and kill. Plus they could make some money and wouldn't be noobs anymore. They would start to learn the game.

Regulator
USB/GOV Website
Keep It Reasonable!!!

Edited by - Regulator on 15-08-2003 21:40:04

many newbs haven't even played singleplayer yet. I encounter them a lot in my server, and I give them the same answer when asking me or others for help--play singleplayer through then come back for help.

cheating cheating cheating, you can apply that to anyone who seems to beat you "unfairly", but the best description I heard of the word (don't remember the guys name) is this:

"cheating is in multiplayer is exploiting a game bug to gain an advantage over another player"

I haven't encountered too much of that on my server, but I know it's happened before. just recently, someone was firing some nomad blasters like they were beam weapons (you know who you are) but he never participated in any duels or attacked any players. it's also one of those mods that I can't control, but he didn't give anyone else any grief with his modding.

Another time, one player accused another of cheating for flying around in an anubis fighter, and another for flying the juni fighter (piloting really, since you really don't "fly" in space). Is that considered cheating? it was me who changed the starting ship to anubis and defender, and that change was global, so everyone who was starting out had the ship available.

I don't consider the above examples worth banning a player from my server. people will mod eventually, probably just trying something out they learned from these forums, but I still tolerate them in my server. it's when they use mods or bugs against other players, that's when I put my foot down. ban. no questions. simple.

If a game isn't passworded, you open the door to every modder out there. that's just how it is. I do my best to keep the "bad" modding out. The F1 select new character trick can be considered a cheat as well. hell, I used it to escape outcasts who wanted my cargo. In that instance, I'm cheating the game by gaining an escape advantage. the same idea can be applied to pvp encounters as well, and as regulartor pointed out, there's really nothing I can do about it. players will complain if someone gets out of hand. when I get enough complaints on one person, I take action.

Do I still use the F1 bug? yes. I'm not proud of it, but I do use it. would I use it in a player encounter? no, and I rarely bother anymore, since the computer AI is much dumber than a human counterpart. the only real advantage the enemy factions have are strength in numbers. Isolate one of them, even a titan ship, and you can run circles around it without suffering any damage.

To enforce my disapproval of the F1 bug, I gotta set the example, so I stop using it. it wasn't meant to be used in such a way, and I'd hope anyone on my server will do the same courtesy and play the game the way it's supposed to be played.

___________________________________
There is no knowledge that is not power.