Digital Anvil needs to fix multiplayer PK.

Tue Mar 18, 2003 4:30 pm by SadisticSavior

If you increase the police strength, newbies won't be able to become pirates.

Sure they will...it'll just carry more risk. Such is the life of a pirate. yar.

Anyone who's played the game knows very well that there is PLENTY of open space and unguarded tradelanes in New York alone. Upping the strength of the police means that high level loners wont be able to "invade" Liberty space and harass new players, but still have the option of playing pirate if they really want to.

And lets face it, it isnt unreasonable to expect that the cops have really strong equipment. You dont see people being hijacked in front of cop stations in real life either.

Once again, sometimes going to a non-PvP game isn't an option. Like when the server you've been playing on for a week suddenly TURNS PvP.

Yeah, that sucks. But the alternative is worse. I went through over a dozen characters all on different servers before settling in with the Elite server. Pick your servers carefully.

I agree about exploiting the system to get lvl 38 characters in 2 hours...no fun IMO. The journey is half the fun in a game like this. I'm actually a little dissapointed that levelling becomes so easy after the teens.

This is not a damn MMORPG.. the solution to PKing is A) Better patrols and stronger police forces. Restricting PVP to all zones except the primary planet zones (New York, New Tokyo, etc) You don't want to be killed? Don't leave your primary system.

I think this is a good compromise. I think making cops stronger makes the game more realistic though and accomplishes almost the same thing. I dont like restricting what players can do artificially myself. Freedoms and choice are the main appeal of a game like this.

Oh come on, get over it, you die, it happens, go play on a carebear server if you're really worried. (And the "It's not always possible" excuse just doesn't cut it. Pessimist.)

In their defense, dying is what they are whining about; griefing is what they are whining about. And it's a valid complaint. If some A$$holes hunts you down (because he can see you withing 4k, no matter where you run), and corners you on a planet, you are SoL.

This happens because the game is not balanced...cops should NOT be so weak that a single criminal can wipe them ALL out. Thats crap. DA should fix it. It's not like it would take a lot of time or effort...it would be very very easy.

I've avoided it because I've been playing games for years and know how to deal with these people. But Joe-13-year-old doesnt, and stuff like this ruins the game for him. He doesnt have a chance.

The only solution to having a balanced/fun MP game is level based pk. Its they only way.

No...it's not the only way. Stronger cops will discourage PKing as a whole. Once PKers find out the risk/reward isnt worth it, they'll stop.

Tue Mar 18, 2003 4:56 pm by SadisticSavior

"In their defense, dying is what they are whining about"

That should read "isnt" of course, heh heh.

Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:13 pm by BlkKnight

Freelancer is similar to Blacknova traders in many respects.

they way they've solved the newbie killing is to stick a bloody big bounty on you if you kill another player which is X levels or X% smaller than you.

It works fairly well as the bounty is usually 1/3 of your networth & you can't buy any hardware until you've played it off (you can still trade tho) - not entirely true representation of BNT - but how i suggest it should work with FL

BK

Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:24 pm by SadisticSavior

That sounds fair. I could live with that.

Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:12 pm by Artic

and if you dont pay it fast enhough you'll get bounty hunters/army at your tail.

How about taxing players on their networth, and cargo. It will be damd hard to stay lvl 38 if you have to pay tons of money for every jumpgate you take.

Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:17 pm by alex1

x man, you cant change the game, just get better, people will stop pking. if you really want to change fl go get a computer science degree and work for a gaming company. just kick harder!

Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:43 pm by Xaanix

@Apocalypse

I am neither of the above.

I really like the bounty idea. Maybe they can have bounty offices or you can place bounties. Or just place bounties on people at bounty hunter bases? That is a really neat idea. And the higher the bounty on you, the stronger the bountyhunters who attack you will be. If you place a 100,000 bounty on someone, bounty hunters will be about as strong as the blood dragons. If you place a 2 million bounty on someone, then he gets attacked by Ace level bounty hunters with hammerheads and lvl 10 shields etc, like the ones near and in the border worlds, in groups of 8 or so. Also he cant buy eq or trade with bases that are very friendly with bounty hunters. You can also pay off your bounty at any police base.

I dont want to discourge PK, i want to encourage it but only killing someone who's got a chance of killing you. Police shouldnt attack you if you attack another player. They should only assisst if you are fired upon and are in a cargo ship, since this is obvious pirating. Also, the more the cops dislike you, the more likely it is they will assisst your target if you attack someone else. If they dislike you both the the same,( not hate==red), then they will not assisst unless the attacked guy is in a cargo ship.

The only problem with making police really strong is that you discourage low level pirates. Well, i suppose you could have the police do damage to you based on your level. 20% damage if you are under level 10, 35% damage if under 20, 90% if you are under 30, 200%-300% damage if over 30. *shrug*

Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:46 pm by Xaanix

@alex1

I am pretty damn good. I can hold my own against anyone whos on equal footing with me. This isnt about ME being Pk'd, or me being pissed off that i got pk'd. Its about making the game better. I sent a little note to DA using the MSFT web site. I am still hoping they will read the forum.

Wed Mar 19, 2003 4:02 pm by Kusari_Ranger

Quote: "Once again, sometimes going to a non-PvP game isn't an option. Like when the server you've been playing on for a week suddenly TURNS PvP. That's my situation, and it's a nice, stable server too. I don't care how many of you will make 2 hour, level 38 characters - I won't. It'll just ruin my gaming experience, like stupid PKers."

Multiplayer shouldnt BE anything in particular...it should be whatever that server wants it to be. I agree there are some balance issues...but for the sake of realism...no invisible force should prevent you from engaging lower level ships. Unfortunately, FL servers will never be given the power to tweak PvP to taste. For now, suck it up. No one forces you to do anything, dont have the option to play non-pvp? then youre screwed. Thats all there is to it. There are a few good servers that try to enforce sportsmanship where ganking is fine but griefing isnt. These servers are few but no one is stopping you from running your own server with your buddies and doing whatever you want with it. What DA/MS needs to do before they do anything with the gameplay is release some updates to fix the series of nasty bugs/glitches affecting the game preventing many of us from playing MP at all.

Wed Mar 19, 2003 7:05 pm by aerundel

I told you I'm not getting PKed at all, I'm just defending the issue. So I have nothing to "suck up". Nothing's stopping me from making a server? What if I had a 56K connection, or I have a bare bones PC to play the game? I have better, but you didn't know that, so why assume I can just make a server for me AND my friends?

PvP isn't the focus of the game. It's a little switch you turn on and off. It should be optional and challenging for BOTH sides of the fight. I really don't wanna go to a non-pvp server because I would like to do some PvP. However, I'd prefer it not to be with my Rhino against a Titan/Sabre/Eagle with nomad/lvl 10 weapons and shields.

And that's all I have to say about this matter.

Wed Mar 19, 2003 9:40 pm by SadisticSavior

I told you I'm not getting PKed at all, I'm just defending the issue. So I have nothing to "suck up". Nothing's stopping me from making a server? What if I had a 56K connection, or I have a bare bones PC to play the game?

Cry me a river...I *am* on a 56k connection. I have been PKed a grand total of 3 times on my way to level 31 on the elite server. No, it's not that big a deal. There are ways to avoid it, and if they kill you in Liberty space, you report them. The admins are very good about enforcing rules.

PvP isn't the focus of the game.

Many of us disagree. Human opponents are far more challenging than any AI...as far as I know, there is no AI in the game I cant beat with a loaded Falcon. Thats not true of human players. If AI was enough, I would not bother with Multiplayer at all.

PvP may not be the ONLY reason for MP, but it is the MAIN reason. It adds an element of danger that you cant get with AI. Playing pirate against braindead AI's is not the same as playing pirate against a real human who might actually kill you instead.

However, I'd prefer it not to be with my Rhino against a Titan/Sabre/Eagle with nomad/lvl 10 weapons and shields.

Then stay in Liberty space or run away to a carebear server. You do have choices. There are plenty of servers out there that share your view.

Wed Mar 19, 2003 10:18 pm by Kusari_Ranger

Quote: "I told you I'm not getting PKed at all, I'm just defending the issue. So I have nothing to "suck up". Nothing's stopping me from making a server? What if I had a 56K connection, or I have a bare bones PC to play the game? I have better, but you didn't know that, so why assume I can just make a server for me AND my friends?"

As to sucking it up...I was referring to the other complainers. And as for your own economic situation stopping you...thats not anyone's fault except maybe your own. However you do say you have better. Basically...the MP is very open ended, youre not forced into anything, everyone has the ABILITY to run their own servers, and thats as much as we can ask for. Dont ask DA to tweak PvP, its an issue they shouldnt have to adress. Play on a server with an environment you like, dont play on ones that dont suit you, end of story. And as for PvP not being the focus of the game...people can make the focus of this game whatever they want, thats the beauty of it.

Wed Mar 19, 2003 11:13 pm by Tippis

(not specifically aimed at SadisticSavior, but I'll quote you anyway since your quote is a very neat and brief description of the pro-PvP view)

Then stay in Liberty space or run away to a carebear server. You do have choices. There are plenty of servers out there that share your view.

Yes, that is one solution, but I don't think it is not a very good one for a since in my case the number of servers that share my view on PvP is exactly zero. The reason for this is quite simple: the FL Server lacks, as we all know, any and all options a good MP Server should have. PvP isn't, or at least shouldn't be, the simple on/off switch the FL Server tries to make us believe it is.

Yes, DA should defenitely tweak PvP, but not hard-code it into the server executable - it should be up to the different admins to set the umpty-gazillions of options that sets the rules for PvP. Sure, there could be pre-made settings such as full or no PvP, or the level-based PvP Xaanix suggests, to ease the setup, but at any rate, there is a great need for more options (and looking at the discussions at the forum, PvP isn't the only case where this applies).

Having to choose between carebare or fragfest only further illustrates that the MP portion of the game was rushed, ill thought through or just plainly ill designed - quite possibly all three - and I fear these faults lie at such a deep level in the game that no matter how dedicated the admins and the modding community may be. If this is the case, DA most defenitely should fix this through updates of the server software - I mean, considering how much I love this game in spite of it's faults, I can't even imagine how much I'd love it without them

Thu Mar 20, 2003 12:02 am by SadisticSavior

I am hoping someone will follow up by modding a server for "super police" in newbie areas. From what I understand, the option is already there to tweak NPC powers. Make all Liberty police = Corsairs (a'la Omicron 41) as far as abilities go. Boom...no more newbie slaughtering.

There are no downsides to this that I can see, short of making the pirate life for a newbie a little harder (hey, go to Brit space).

Thu Mar 20, 2003 2:03 am by aerundel

I would've left this post after my last response, but my words aren't being quoted in full. Yes, you can play MP with 56K, and you can run the game with a weak machine. HOWEVER, that won't make much of a server, which is what was "recommended" to me. Being able to make a server is a given, but making a stable, playable one is another matter.

Where are the people that like PvP but don't want to do it every single time the opportunity arises? That's the group I'm in. I won't be able to access ANY PvP if I go to a server that doesn't have it. You can't mod something that isn't even there; you have to alter PvP where it EXISTS. I'll fall back on D2 again since it's a good example. That game isn't focused on PvP, but lots of people make characters that are focused on it. BUT the game has rules and settings for PvP, it isn't just "on" or "off" like it is in FL. This lets everybody enjoy the game, and none of the PvPers complain, since there are plenty of people to duel anyway. I don't know about you, but the lvl 30+ people are the majority on my server, so they have plenty of people to fight against besides me.

I'm in agreement with the person above me that says servers should be given more parameters to affect PvP. There have been many ideas in this thread that could be of use. This game doesn't need to be black and white on this aspect of gameplay. You can call me an idiot, say I'm crying, tell me to go to a "care bear" server, or otherwise degrade my views, but they're still valid.

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