Freelancer Plot is Retarted!

Sun Apr 06, 2003 6:30 pm by SadisticSavior

If you don't have much in common then there really isn't a "diversed culture" now is there?

Sure it is...it's a hyridized culture. What they call "purity" I call "stagnation". Our diversity has allowed us to adapt more rapidly than they could.

And on top of that you're abandoning your history?

Only history before the last 50 years...after WWII, everything changed.

Who cares about US anyway, history will run its course no matter what. Time to start a new post... about other things... like the unrealistic size of American asses portrayed in the game. mmmwwhahahaha~~

For the record, I modified Trent's ass in photoshop...thats not exactly how it looks in game heh heh.

regarding your facts, i havent seen anything that actually proves your points? just a lot of denial and non-statements.

I posted links to supporting evidence...what exactly is it you want to see? A guided tour into an alternate universe by Q?

you really dont seem to grasp world economy. USA depends on the rest of the world as much as the rest of the world depends on USA.

I disagree with the "as much" part. China for example needs us far more than we need them. We account for more of their foreign trade than the next 20 nations...combined. We can always find other nations to manufacture our crap (Taiwan and Mexico come to mind), but they cannot complete their economic transformation without us. IMO, this is the primary reason they have not confronted us over Taiwan all these years...they NEED us.

If USA decides to go on its own and cut itself off from the rest of the world, the WHOLE world economy would collapse including the USA.

We need to go on our own where our defense is concerned. As for the economy, no matter how much other nations whine and complain about us, they WANT the products we have. I bet France is way more worried abiut a US boycott than we are about a French boycott.

where do you think the national debt came from? how can u say it doesnt matter? and start talking about GDP?!?!?

Because if it really mattered that much, no one would give us credit. The fact that other nations are still willing to do business with us in spite of all that debt says all that needs to be said.

btw - Much of that debt is due to our forgiving the debts of other nations that owed us money. We did not charge Europe a protection tax, even though it was our expensive military that kept the Soviets from swallowing them whole for 40 or 50 years.

please read through before replying, thanks ...

Summarize it for me...I'm not reading several novels worth or data for a debate on a gaming site. If that makes me sound shallow, sorry, heh heh.

correct me if i'm wrong, as all the wars that i've seen germany is in WW1 and WW2.

That was kind of my point...and both were wars of conquest. I admit I am not an expert of history (although I am well-read where American related history is concerned), but I am wondering if even France has won more wars than Germany.

well, i must say, germany was up against... lets see... Britain, France, Belgium, Russia, Italy(somewhat a turncoat-no offense), AMERICA and numerous other minors, like Poland, crushed in WW?

I agree...their culure semed to spawn inferior leaders that made a lot of bad decisions.

btw - America's contribution was not only in direct involvement, but in supplies as well. It is debatable if Russia and Britain could have even held out as long as they did had we not supplied them.

Japan was a major power?

Yes. It was sufficient to invade the Pacific by itself, including most of China. I believe most historians would consider Japan to be a military power at that time.

i don't remember them stepping onto english grounds.

Because of our intervention. we could have chosen to placate Hitler and not get involved (which is what he wanted) but we did not.

america WASN'T in that war for more than a couple of years. they only went in AFTER pearl harbour.

We were supplying Britain and Russia long before Pearl Harbor.

the ranking 'provides the first 'big picture' comparison of the relative effectiveness of education systems across the developed world' the united nations children's Fund study said.

Yeah yeah, I keep hearing that, but the empirical evidence doesnt seem to support it. We dont really seem to be losing anything. The biggest companies in the world are still American. The best technology still tends to be American. Our GNP is still larger than anyone else's. Therefore I can only assume that there are more variables involved besides education.

As an American I have been told since childhood how stupid we all are supposedly, but the evidence doesnt seem to support that. Why havnt these other nations passed us up like we did Europe?

and sadisticsavior, you might wanna change ur signature pic of trent's a$$ into something like prof. whatisname.. the guy who trent went to race for.. the guy hiding in the bundschuh station.. well get his a$$, might look better

I havnt got that far in the SP game yet...

Edited by - SadisticSavior on 06-04-2003 19:31:46

Sun Apr 06, 2003 7:18 pm by cailin

But thats what you dont get. You are the proof that the American education system doesnt work aswell as it should. You said yourself that history is not your strong point. Well learn it why do you need a teacher to stand up there and spoon feed the knowledge to you. Any point about past empires was meant to explain to you that romans thought there empire was the most advanced and would last forever, so did the Huns, and egyptions. The Germans have won wars obviously some people dont know a lot about history. Germans are Huns, Huns are Germans. They ruled most of Europe at one stage. As for America stopped the germans from invading England god how can you be so stupid it would have been suicide to send infantry across the channel with out air support. they would have been bombed and torpedoed out of the water by the R.A.F. Even then the American military only joined when the invasion was going ahead with or without you. The main reason why the USA supplied arms to europe was not for anything but to pull your country out of depression. The Neutrality Act of 1939 gave permission for Roosevelt to SELL arms to them. The USA was doing nothing but making money of the lives of young soldiers. By the laws of war your country should have been charged with war profiteering. 5% of your military took part in World War 2 approximately 800,000, Australia a country of 9 million people at the time had over 200,000 casualties. Harry Truman the next president allowed the Russian to keep all the nations they took from the Germans while Winston Churchhill want to continue the war if Russia didn't move back to there original borders. Thats great you think the USA protected every one from Russia what you neglect to mention is that the USA caused it. As for Pearl Harbour that Happened in December 1941 I guess your country was just 2 years late. As for the Pacific war against the Japanese the Americans pulled out in Indonesian and sat off the coast with the 7th fleet while commonwealth countries pushed them out of Papau New Guinea and Timor. Maybe your countries national anthem should have been changed to "With the rockets red glare 95% of americans cower and stare". That 5% is for the American troops who did fight.

FYI If your going to talk about history best not to base all your research on American Hollywood movies.

Sun Apr 06, 2003 7:25 pm by Zamboni

Sure it is...it's a hyridized culture.

I'm sorry, what? "Hyridized"? If you're so "hybridized" then what's with the racial prejudice and conflicts that still exist in your country?

Only history before the last 50 years...after WWII, everything changed.

So you are conveniently leaving out the Indian massacres, the enslavement of African men and women, and other numerous crimes against humanity?

IMO, this is the primary reason they have not confronted us over Taiwan all these years...they NEED us.

Your opinion is near-sighted and biased. Why the fudge would they confront YOU over Taiwan? US does NOT own Taiwan. As far as China is concern, Taiwan is as much a part of China as Hong-Kong. Frankly I think the Taiwanese government is sucking up to US sovereignty instead of main land China is because Taiwan needs US, not China.

The bottom line is, united states believe that it has God on its side; heck you even print it on your currency. It is ironic to see the most technologically advanced country (or so you claim) to believe in an entity that cannot and will not be proven by science.
On top of that, US thinks of itself as some-sort of "world police" even when nobody wants it to be and even when US itself has not quenched its own social conflicts or even voting methods (knock, knock, Florida?).

Your culture lacks the finesse and delicacy to become a great nation. The "American way" is just to believe "bigger is better" or "pound it with a hammer until it's in". This may work well in hollywood movies. But in real life, it's dragging your nation down along with the obese citizens and their "freedom fries".

(As a last effort to drive this post back to the original topic)
Is Freelancer plot retarded? No, I think not. Why? Because it shows the United States, along with its Latino buddies (which account for over 40% or your so called diversity), blasted out of the solar system.

Edited by - Zamboni on 06-04-2003 20:42:15

Edited by - Zamboni on 06-04-2003 20:43:11

Sun Apr 06, 2003 8:51 pm by SadisticSavior

But thats what you dont get. You are the proof that the American education system doesnt work aswell as it should. You said yourself that history is not your strong point.

So far, no one on here has proven they have any better grasp of history than I do; that their version is any more correct than mine. My facts are accurate.

Any point about past empires was meant to explain to you that romans thought there empire was the most advanced and would last forever, so did the Huns, and egyptions.

We are unlike any previous empire that has ever existed. Therefore comparisons with previous empires are irrelevent IMO.

The Germans have won wars obviously some people dont know a lot about history. Germans are Huns, Huns are Germans.

The comment was intended as sarcasm. Obviously you have to go back quite a ways to find a war that Germans actually won.

As for America stopped the germans from invading England god how can you be so stupid it would have been suicide to send infantry across the channel with out air support.

So you are denying that Americans supplied the British before their entry into the war? Or are you trying to claim that they could still have won the war even without supplies?

they would have been bombed and torpedoed out of the water by the R.A.F. Even then the American military only joined when the invasion was going ahead with or without you.

As well it should...after all, England could have prevented WWII by simply confronting the Germans when they first broke the treaty...instead they waited until they had built up a military. At the time the treaty was broken, England had an overwhelming military advantage. They could have easily solved the problem themselves without any help from us at all.

But appeasment of despots seems to be a tradition among Euronations.

The USA was doing nothing but making money of the lives of young soldiers. By the laws of war your country should have been charged with war profiteering.

No one held a gun to their heads and forced them to buy anything from us; and I seriously doubt the Brits saw it that way at the time. We were helping to bail England out of a problem IT allowed to happen in the first place! It is not the job of the US to babysit them. Europe was responsible for WWII in the first place. They made their own beds, and we put ourseles at risk to help them out of a situation they created in the first place. Just my opinion of course =)

I'm sorry, what? "Hyridized"? If you're so "hybridized" then what's with the racial prejudice and conflicts that still exist in your country?

What racism and prejudice is that? It's easy not to be racist when you never have to deal with other races; European nations are 95%+ white.

Even so I'd like to see some examples of this prejudice. The OJ trial perhaps? heh heh

So you are conveniently leaving out the Indian massacres, the enslavement of African men and women, and other numerous crimes against humanity?

I see it as no different from European colonialism which was going on at the same time.

Your opinion is near-sighted and biased.

The difference being that I at least admit to my biases...while you people pretend to be impartial because it makes you feel better, heh heh

Why the fudge would they confront YOU over Taiwan?

Because we are selling weapons to what they consider to be a renegade province. We almost made them an "official" non-NATO ally a year or two ago...man, that really would have pissed them off.

Frankly I think the Taiwanese government is sucking up to US sovereignty instead of main land China is because Taiwan needs US, not China.

They do need us, but not for the same reason. Like Europe during the cold war, we are the only thing keeping the PRC from swallowing them whole. Europe sure as hell wouldnt defend them.

Your culture lacks the finesse and delicacy to become a great nation.

hahahaha...so I've heard. Keep telling yourselves that, heh heh

(As a last effort to drive this post back to the original topic)

I think it's safe to say I have officially hijacked this thread. You people could stop me at any time though, heh heh heh

Because it shows the United States, along with its Latino buddies (which account for over 40% or your so called diversity),

Actually they account for about 15%. Blacks account for another 15%, and asians account for another 3-5%. Exponentially more than any European or Asian nation. - [urk=http://www.childstats.gov/ac1999/xpop3.asp http://www.childstats.gov/ac1999/xpop3.asp - This data was from 1998 (and granted, it is about children under 18, not then current population...I could not find a link summarizing the entire population but I think it's safe to say that this chart approximates it...here's a supporting link)...it's safe to say the nation is probably LESS white now, not more.

Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:57 am by Lev Arris

Here is what i have to say to this thread:

"It has become appallingly clear that our technology has surpassed our
humanity." - Albert Einstein

-------------

"Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles
which every man of every faith can embrace. " - Murphy MacManus

Mon Apr 07, 2003 1:14 am by RadioactiveYeti

ewwww...this thread really needs to be locked.

Mon Apr 07, 2003 2:31 am by Apocalypse

no its funny ^-^

99% of all amercans give the rest a bad name

Mon Apr 07, 2003 3:04 am by dHeaven

We are unlike any previous empire that has ever existed.

That is what exactly the "previous empires" had thought too, and look where they are? Don't be too sure of your current success.

Mon Apr 07, 2003 3:16 am by maswastage|BG

Ah, my country, Bulgaria. We are far, far behind the U.S. or the rest of Europe for that matter. Sure, we're not as bad as, say, Macedonia, or Albania, but it's not very good here either. And who's fault is that? Possibly the communists? We have been under communist rule for almost as long as Russia. We broke away from Communism only just recently. In fact, some comminist laws still apply today. One U.S. dollar is worth approx. twice as much as one Bulgarian lev. We don't have it easy. Lucky for me, I'm now in the U.S. and no matter what you say, that is better than Bulgaria.

-From the gates of Heaven to the depths of Hell; one, the Protecter; sees all, knows all, defends the innocent.

Mon Apr 07, 2003 3:49 am by Jonmphy

According to the census, Blacks and Latinos make up about 12.4% each of the population, with non-Hispanic Whites being 69.1%. The rest (about 4%) being Asian, Native, and Pacific Islander.

England is 87% White, which puts it about on par with all of America west of Pennsylvania.

Edit: Or all of America minus its ten largest cities.

Looking at the CIA factbook, the UN website and the US Census website, I can't find info on France, Spain, or Italy's ethnic makeup. Which leads me to believe that you couldn't, either, SadisticSavior.

We are unlike any previous empire that has ever existed.

That's a funny one. What makes us so different? I mean, there's no lack of historical precedent. The Ottomans, the Austrians, the Germans, the French, The English, The Russians, the Chinese, and the Japanese were there before us in recent memory. While higher math was being developed and the great Greek epics were being stored away in the Middle East, the Europeans were bashing each other to smithereens, creating the most fearsome weapons the world has ever seen, and have been doing so ever since. The two largest ethnic contingencies in America are the English and the Germans, and there's certainly no evidence that we didn't pick up on that trend.

Like someone mentioned earlier, it was the English who came up with radar. Germans got mass-produced submarines first. From the Germans we got jet engines and ballistic missiles, not to mention designs for assault rifles and light machine guns that we used pretty much through the cold war. Einstein, largely credited with helping American get the A-bomb first, was German. The Russians developed it independently not long afterwards.

We're not particularly special. We're just across two oceans, which is why people haven't come knocking on our door too often. This doesn't mean that we're not set up almost exactly like every other empire that ever came up, it just means it'll take a bit longer to exceed our bounds. The Greeks met the Persians. The Persians met the Greeks. The Roman met the Huns. The French were hit by Russia's secret weapon: Winter. So did the Germans. Twice. But not before ridding both the English and the French from their overseas colonial control. Japan thought it could conquer all of East and South-east Asia without oil, but not before ridding the US of all our Pacific colonies and bombing Hawaii. The Czechs found out molotov cocktails work very well against Russian tanks. A dozen other nations soon discovered the same thing. Goodbye, USSR, that good ol' behemoth who gave AK47s to the world, making colonial prospects all but impossible, as the US found out on several occasions.

So what will we do differently? We're acting more like Hitler than Churchill at the moment - doing as we please despite complaint because nobody feels like opposing us militarily. I highly doubt the Iraqis of Baghdad or Basra feel particularly liberated at the moment. As we found with most countries that were invaded from some distant land, as soon the occupying force turns their back, the locals will make their move. This is pretty much true from Jerusalem under Roman Control to Ho Chi Minh City under the Americans, no matter what the reason was to invade.

Edited by - jonmphy on 07-04-2003 04:50:50

Mon Apr 07, 2003 4:29 am by SadisticSavior

That is what exactly the "previous empires" had thought too, and look where they are? Don't be too sure of your current success.

People have been predicting our downfall for a long time now. Let me know when it actually happens in the real world.

England is 87% White, which puts it about on par with all of America west of Pennsylvania.

You are only talking about one segment of the nation; my statistics were with regards to ALL of America...not just the parts that support my argument the best. Otherwise I would have used statistics from JUST california or JUST New York.

From your link: "Eighty-seven per cent of the population of England and 96 per cent of the population of Wales gave their ethnic origin as White British. " Also: "In England and Wales, 1.1 per cent of people are Black Caribbean, 0.9 per cent are Black African and a further 0.2 per cent are from Other Black groups."...quite a bit below America I believe. When I use the word "diversity" I am not just talking about different flavors of white people...

So tell me, why didnt you choose Wales as your example? heh heh

That's a funny one. What makes us so different?

We are an amalgam of every race and culture on the planet. That has never been true of a previous empire in recorded history. We have the power to invade other nations and make them our own, but have chosen not to do so; that is not true of previous empires (up to and including the most recent, such as Britain, Japan, China, and the Soviet Union). Our economic imperialism is done with the consent of those "conquored".

Einstein, largely credited with helping American get the A-bomb first, was German.

- http://history1900s.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.historychannel.com%2Fexhibits%2Ftrinity%2Foppenheimer.html -

Interesting that you should bring up einstein...I wonder why we were able to exploit his knowledge and his natiuve nation was not? any ideas?

So what will we do differently? We're acting more like Hitler than Churchill at the moment - doing as we please despite complaint because nobody feels like opposing us militarily.

I disagree...we simply refuse to allow naive european idiocy to put us at risk again the way they did in WWII. We know that hiding your head in the sand wont make the problem go away, and that despots cannot be reasoned with. Europe in particular...and the UN in general, still fail to grasp that. It isnt as if we didnt try. But we are the ones at risk, not them; of course they are not going to be as concerned.

Look at the UN now...perfect example. France and Germany wont stick to the resolutions they supposedly supported just months before. It's a joke. We act in our own defense...we dont invade and enslave other nations the way previous empires have (Britain/Japan/Germany/China/Russia/ect...).

So what will we do differently? We're acting more like Hitler than Churchill at the moment - doing as we please despite complaint because nobody feels like opposing us militarily.

Because they have been lied to by a biased media under the control of the same despots that ruled them. They hate us because they dont know us. The Afghanis dont seem terribly pissed off at being liberated. Iraq will be exactly the same. Our way is the better way...we dont need to force it on them. Ultimately they will choose it on their own if given a real choice. We've specifically developed weapons to avoid taking civilian life, even though it would be cheaper and easier not to do so. How many previous empires have done that?

However, even they WERNT being liberated, our actions would be justified in the name of self defense anyway.

Mon Apr 07, 2003 4:35 am by SadisticSavior

I'm sorry, what? "Hyridized"? If you're so "hybridized" then what's with the racial prejudice and conflicts that still exist in your country?

That should have read "hybridized". As spelling errors go, I think I am towards the bottom of the list of users on this forum...

Mon Apr 07, 2003 4:46 am by Apocalypse

we dont need to force it on them

^_^

btw there is a edit button, no need for double posts

Mon Apr 07, 2003 5:16 am by SadisticSavior

The edit button isnt working for me. So yes, there is a need for double posts I'm afraid =(

Mon Apr 07, 2003 5:47 am by DethStryke

just a thought on Sadistic's theory of being a diverse tolerant culture.. what are your thoughts on the recent persecution of american citizens of arab descent.
especially those trying to travel? legitimate american passports holders are being accused or forgery and denied even a phone call to sort this out.
i'm not sure if this is reported in american media, but us canucks hear about it frequently.

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