hmm...I can undestand if people say that there are time that swearing enhances writing, but as soon a swearing is tolerated, you get most people totally overdoing it. If you look at most books today, there is so much swearing in and it is really, realy irritating, because well you could totally write it without the swearwords and still make sense. Or come accross the exact same way.

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After all, didn't bobby say "Are you talkin to me?" - which whilst containing no swearing still managed to convey the fact that you were in the Scheiße.

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true, but the actual full quote is...

You talkin' to me?

You talkin' to me?

You talkin' to me? Then who the hell else are you talkin' to?

You talkin' to me?

Well, I'm the only one here.

Who do the f*** do you think you're talking to?


....*ahem* I believe thats a swear word used to affirm the threat - exactly as I was trying to explain in my more extreme example.

Swearing is just a set of words in the english language that are used to heighten a point. Anyone who honestly thinks that swearing has no place in the english language, should visit england and experience their use in everyday non-threatening contexts.

yeah, but I would have shat my pants at "You talking to me?" - without the rest of it.

Same for Terminator 2's (if my memory isn't failing me) "get out". Mind you, having Arnie sat in the seat next to you may cause that effect I guess

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Anyone who honestly thinks that swearing has no place in the english language, should visit england and experience their use in everyday non-threatening contexts.

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Hmm, hope your not talking about all the chavs and mini crims walking around f'ing and blinding non stop. It turns the language into its ugliest form possible when swearing becomes the norm.

Edited by - Mike G on 10/19/2005 12:04:46 PM

one has to be lucrative with swears to be original, and to be good.

to repeat "Fornication Under Consent of the King" or Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo for short, endlessly is hardly to be called original, nor is it any good, instead of go foxtrot uniform charlie kilo yourself, you could use the old "Get stuffed!!" same message, more original, and imo more powerfull, although you could use the former, in its literal transcription ofcourse, to raise an eyebrow, and just plainly call him an arse.

there are plenty of chances to swear, just using normal words, or to be lucrative, and call em everything under the sun (believe me, I have a very rich expertise in swearing from my daily job, and it doesn't confine itself in one language)

I do agree that the chav-like over use of the f word is incomprehensively sad...eg. put the f'in kettle on, cos I f'in want an f'in cuppa, you f'in f'er... etc....but I suppose that it is just the nature of the subculture.

No, what I was referring to earlier was the "everyday" use by Mr Average Man On The Street. Swearing nowadays appears most frequently with surprise - eg. "reallllly? get the f outta here" or "what? no f'in way!" or even "No sh**!!!". The words have been absorbed into everyday language and when used infrequently and in the right context, often go unnoticed.

IMO, the only word in england that really turns heads still is c*** - it is still considered so offensive that you would actually hear long sucks of breath from the people around you if used in a public place, presuming of course they haven't already commented on it being "too offensive". Which is exactly why I think that it should be filtered from this site. If any word should be censored, it should certainly be that one.

(btw, I agree that the person making the statement certainly makes the difference. If Joe Pesci looked me in the eye and said "leave me alone you undesirable young man or I will be forced to defend myself"...I would crap myself and be out of there like a shot. lol. Its not always the big muscley ones that are the scariest )

EDIT: I always find "lick my starfish" to be as effective as any swear word anyway

Edited by - gromit on 10/19/2005 2:26:35 PM

"Funny how? Funny like I'm a clown - I amuse you?"

I would ruuuunnnnnnnn by that point.

True, swear words have managed to invade a certain age groups language to an extent that its overused - nearly to the point where it has lost its meaning. Indeed, many require a "threatening look" to convey what swear words would have originally done on their own.

Although many use it in everday language - Leon said it best to Matilda outside "ol Tony's"

"I want you to stop cursing. You can't talk to people like that all the time."

Indy - Lies! And anyway, at least I'm not packed into a small 2x2 metre built-in-robe taping away madly at a computer keyboard covered by 4 months worth of crumbs and coffee/Kahlua stains, while craning forward in a rickety wodden chair and staring at the screen with bloodshot eyes trying to divine the reason that Windows ME has crashed again ! *Takes breath* Hmmm. Not my best work I fear...

*rummages frantically around and physically disconnects webcam*

Mike - I've got to say, you've got a great taste in movies That quote though, again, when you look at the whole quote uses a swear word for emphasis...

"How am I funny, like a clown? What is so funny about me? What the F*** is so funny about me? Tell me. Tell me what's funny."

*shudder* but saying that, you take the swear word out and its just as effective. The guy has me quaking every time I watch that film. Now, Casino, thats another film thats rammed with swearing but has some genuinely scary moments that have no swearing at all...for example, when Bob's wife is about to leave him he grabs her arm and says...

"Look at my eyes, do you see anything in the eyes that makes you think I'm going to let you take my child away from me with your condition?"

...there's no need to swear, at that very moment you know he wouldn't think twice about killing her where she stands. But it has to be said, De Niro pulls off those scenes without blinking an eye. He's one scary so-n-so.

I do swear and I do like nasty words from time to time, but in oral language, not in written. For written language I agree with a lot of you there are more sublime words for swearing/insulting or whatever.

Nice example imo: scene from Beckett's "Waiting for Godot" (act 2)

They glare at each other angrily.
VLADIMIR:
Ceremonious ape!
ESTRAGON:
Punctilious pig!
VLADIMIR:
Finish your phrase, I tell you!
ESTRAGON:
Finish your own!
Silence. They draw closer, halt.
VLADIMIR:
Moron!
ESTRAGON:
That's the idea, let's abuse each other.
They turn, move apart, turn again and face each other.
VLADIMIR:
Moron!
ESTRAGON:
Vermin!
VLADIMIR:
Abortion!
ESTRAGON:
Morpion!
VLADIMIR:
Sewer-rat!
ESTRAGON:
Curate!
VLADIMIR:
Cretin!
ESTRAGON:
(with finality). Crritic!
VLADIMIR:
Oh!
He wilts, vanquished, and turns away

@zazie; I begin to weary of this motif.

Anyhoo, Thanks Grom, at least someone here is defending all that is right and good in the universe.

Vulgarities do not necessarily have to be used as offensive threats. They are most often used best as humour to add a bit of grain or spice, or some other larger food stuff like rabbit foot, whatever, to a conversation.

If Fr Jack had unleashed outbursts of "Girls!Drink!Gosh Darned It! Drink" I am not quite sure that the comic moment would have survived. Yet you can claim that such vulgarities have impact because they are taboo and as such are both risque and less commonly used thus standing out when used particularly if the timing is right. Once they become the norm and are inserted into every pause and supplant every other more suitable word the effect is negated and user just sounds lazy and inarticulate. Like everything, or at least most, use in moderation has its place and can add to a point. Overuse or indeed immature and incorrect use which is what would happen here if the filter were removed just kills it.

BTW: Does the filter pick up on the Celtic derivatives? I suppose the best way to check would be to run a test. TEST: ****e!Feck!Drink! *Relaxes back into chair and takes a swig of cheap potin*

Ooops. Looks like Mr. Id got his potcheen mixed up with the drain clog remover again.

I'm all for fixing the censor program and improving / fine tuning its vocabulary. But why is it that the "celtic" derivatives are not considered so bad? I mean, they seem to be published and aired without any issue.

@Indy: I presume that your question is infact a prompt as you should already know the answer to your quandry according to the All Saying Id. It could be tough with the filter on but I'll try and spell it out for you.

There are regional differences regarding the perceived severety of various vulgarities. Needless to say they will also predominantly be words concerning genetalia, intercourse, excrement or some such topic with graphic and taboo overtones. The make up of the words is also important and they generally share common structures. It is here where the "celtic" chappies sneak in. A good bad word will have a strong, sharp shock so to speak. A seethingly sharp "f" deep "u" and rock solid "k" is an obvious classic. The slimey, piercing and sharp combo of an sh coupled with the i and t is a good'un too. Grom's fave, and I am 100% with him in voting vor this as the numero uno bad lad, is the strong yet sharp "c", the deepest of deep "un's" topped off with yet another sharp but strong consonants, the "T". Not to mention what the word actually represents.

Now! What happens to the eff word if we supplant the depth of a "u" with a soft "e"? Yes folks, a seemingly miraculuous downgrading of the word to a rather elf like frivolity; Feck! This charming little celt recieves broad grins even when broadcast during pre-watershed hours. Imagine the uproar if Fr. Jack was more fond of the "u". Drink! Girls! ****!?. Please, not infornt of the children, you may take the mick out of the Catholics by all means but please mind your p's ad q's, or u's and e's to be exact. (Likewise stick an "e" at the end of sh1t and you soften both the vowel and consonant to an acceptable (ish) point.)

Of course, my dear friend the bollock is even given an "i" when pronounced back in Dublin thus endeering itself to American tourists when used in the phrase "get up out 'o dat ya little bolix".

If you wish to investigate the thesis further refer to the works of one Dr. U. Id, B.A, M.A., PhD, FU2., published by Drinks Press.



EDIT: Feckin' Edits!

Edited by - druid on 10/20/2005 10:50:52 AM

Killa, i can understand where you are coming from in wanting to put some rather nasty words into your fiction, but most of the times, it really is unnessicary, and can be replaced by other more deeper phrases that still illustrate character.

Example:

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Able: F*** you, you stupid B****
With that, Able pushed Baker down the stairs
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A direct transcription of the event. however, it can be improved.

--
Able's face scowled as a string of harsh and hurtful words escaped from his lips, and, before Baker could retaliate with a barrage of his own, Able's strength had knocked his weight off his feet, sending him tumbling down the flight of stairs behind him.
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Which one is more interesting? To moi it is fairly obvious, but yeah
If you take the time to write in the details like that, your fictions will become a lot more interesting.

-:-
You Wanna Revolution?