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Au revoir

This is where you can discuss your homework, family, just about anything, make strange sounds and otherwise discuss things which are really not related to the Lancer-series. Yes that means you can discuss other games.

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:15 am

Au revoir

So it has come to this; Esky's pseudo-farewell thread. I would like to state that, unlike the other people who have departed from TLR, I have decided that rather than cut all ties to this place, I will instead become a lurker as I once was before I began posting here sixteen months ago. There are myriad reasons for my decision, and I have elected not to go into them in detail because doing so would make no difference. Instead I will simply state that I have decided to do this because, despite the problems that I have both seen and heard about, I still hope that TLR will dig itself out of the deep hole that it is mired in. Although I won't be a visible presence on TLR, I will continue to post, but my posts will be rare and infrequent, and I will simply stay out of the way. It saddens me to do this, but I cannot in good conscience continue my carefree posting on TLR because things are not, and have not been the same as they once were for some time. This is not merely a longing for "the good old days", and is not only because of the lack of conversation and the loss of a number of the more interesting personages here on TLR, but also because of the actions of some members of TLR's staff. For example, the deletion of DS's thread. For me, the last straw was the deletion of Dark_Shadow's topic, and the subsequent discussion which went nowhere. I considered this thread to be TLR's last and best hope of working through all of the issues that have been raised, and yet nothing was accomplished except, ironically, increasing my post count. I would like to state that I completely understand why Eraser locked the thread and took responsibility, and I really respect him for that, but this is not the first time that one of the mods has contravened procedure and, I suspect, gone over the heads of TLR's administration by doing so. I had hoped that by bringing attention to this matter I could cultivate some open dialogue and try to fix things. I have tried my best, and have been unsuccessful. The manner by which I intended to do this, ie. the unmasking of the guilty party may be debatable in terms of its wisdom and potential benefits, but I still believe and maintain that it would have been beneficial in the long run for the community. At the very least, people would have respected the guilty party for owning up and explaining themselves.

I'm sure that some of you think that I had ulterior motives, but my motivation really was to make TLR better whatever you may think (by the way, I'm not referring to you or to your last post in that thread Chips, old chum ), but there are some who probably feel this way, and that's fine because I believe that *everyone* is entitled to their views. In any case, I cannot continue to come here and post regularly until things improve. I have remained on TLR while nearly all of my friends on here have left because I was hoping that I would see some improvement, and/or help to promote beneficial changes. Instead we see Eraser taking responsibilty for something that he did not do, and the person who *did* delete the thread remain hidden in the shadows without an explanation or even an apology. This person was and is a member of TLR's staff, and such behaviour *cannot* be allowed to continue. I do not know whether or not this person was sanctioned or disciplined, but I trust that it is so in order that the events of the last week not be repeated.

I haven't been here for long compared to some of TLR's members and ex-members, but I *have* been around long enough to see the dramatic the difference between "Olde TLR" as I consider it, and "New TLR". This is not an indictment of the current administration, but rather the individual(s) who prompted the mass departure, because it was shortly after this that things really started to go to hell (if you'll pardon the expression Final ). We saw fights, personal abuse, flaming, and even allegations of virus-ridden and hate-filled emails. Because of this, I cannot continue to feel comfortable here, and topher's thread was my last attempt to set things straight. Needless to say, the person who deleted the post did not come forward despite ample time to do so, and a number of people asking for them to own up. If people like this are in control of TLR's forums, how can the average poster feel comfortable posting *anything*?

Finally, I should state that in some ways, my pseudo-departure is essentially a silent protest against the issues that I have outlined above. I feel that this is best rather that going all out in an enormous and potentially offensive post outlining everything that I have seen and heard about TLR. Some of it would make your hair curl as they say (assuming that you believed it ). Well that's about it from me. I'll be around for a little longer, and then I'll return to my anonymous lurking ways. Just remember that although I may not be posting, I'll still be around to "fight the good fight" .

Take it easy people, and hope that things will improve.

Esquilax

Edited by - esquilax on 2/4/2005 3:19:27 AM

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:17 am

i agree eskie, i'll go back to lurking as well, since most of the people i know have gone.

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:47 am

*ERGH*
Ack, dear god... now i really have something to, nevermind...

Sorry to see you go old chum, been good having you here,same with you freighter.

Personally, and ive said it before, i believe the problem may lie in the sheer number of moderators that have been appointed (some COMPLETELY out of the blue) in recent times. bringing us to a total of *checks* 19...
nineteen people moderating forums, at least 40% of which are useless at best (the mod group forums for example, Pathfinder now has 2 forums, one here, and one on the site itself. it would be easier (and more respectful) for the mod leaders to just get a free forum and have a link from some sort of 'master' modgroups forum here), could cause problems.

for example, if i may refer to the recent (if it could be called that) mod appointment history.

First i remember was Chips, and it had been long rumoured that he was going to become a mod, so no surprises there, and a great mod he is too...
following that by a few months, was finalday, also rumoured and favoured by the community, so also no surprises.
now, no less than 1 and no more than 2 months later, we saw the rapid appointment of no less than THREE moderators: Gowerspaul, Parabolix, and sycho_warrior. and glock36 if i am not mistaken.

These three appointments, at least for me (did i miss some huge mod discussion on here that was subsequently hidden?) came as a complete shock. Gowerspaul was, as afar as i could tell, precaclulated. but Para and sycho however... Parabolix, to be honest, i hardly knew, but i made the assumption that the mods knew what they were doing and knew him better than i did before i arrived. sycho, on the other hand, i witnessed the arrival of, and saw exactly the same amount of as the admins and mods on the site, which totals now about 6-8 months. MONTHS! i do not see how any one person could rise that fast in any sort of heirachy, mustang, i think, took about 2-3 years to get to moderatorship.
I recall an old idea that Ss had, about 'SWAT mods' that had limited power. i thought, at the time, and now that it is a good idea. because it seems now that the administrators want more patrols. i think it would be a better idea to appint a few lower-level SWAT mods to hang around (Regulars, like Freighter, wolfy, esq, etc...) and report stuff, than to hastily appoint a large number of moderators that have almost unlimited power. power, inevitably, leads to abuse.

But, just my two cents. honestly, this place is not the place i used to call home. and i am honestly saddened by it, to see such a grand place fall. but in the fullness of time, i hope that we can repair it, with the upcoming AoE release and the new forum desings (do we have any DEFENITE release date yet?) we might have a chance.

JMHO

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:12 am

allow me to state my reason for leaving another, more simple way:

Tlr used to feel like a big family, it no longer does.

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:22 am

why do people that are leaving something always have a big speech........

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:28 am

because they have reasons for leaving, and want to state them, thats why

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:43 am

Quite dramatic

A shame when people feel they need to 'leave' a community, in protest over something they don't agree with.

Part of what makes TLR a good place to 'lurk' and 'contribute' for me, is the sheer number of different members. The Fan Fic forums (both FL and Non-FL) are mainly the forums I keep tabs on, but I do occasionally browse the others.

In a rambly kinda of way, I'm trying to say that at the end of the day, we're all different and forums aren't often the best means of communicating our thoughts / opinions.

Thus, my rule of thumb is to avoid taking anything personally - why stress? We have enough stress in our regular lives without adding more from a hobby that's meant to give us some light relief!

Take it easy!

*virtual hugs all round*

ttfn

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:43 am


why do people that are leaving something always have a big speech........


good point well put...so I'll break the habit....

...nice knowing you all. Hope everything works out for the place. Take care. Cya.

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:30 am

i feel so betrayed, esq...

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:44 am

Arania, I understand where you are coming from...I know it seems like...I'm not sure the word im trying to find...but I guess overwhelming will have to do...I guess it seems overwhelming to have 19 moderators (if your count is right, i dont feel like counting ) but a couple of things...First off, many are not active, second off, some that are "active" arent exactly around a whole lot...and finally, and most importantly, it is not like any rules changed when the new moderators were added...I know that i tried to stay and lenient as possible and not have personal issues with any members and that Gowserpaul was very lenient and mature especially for his age. Each person was made a moderator for a reason, I know it may seem like there are too many, but it wouldnt seem like there were many if people didnt complain about it...or if there werent rampant spammers and gravediggers that force the moderators to lock threads...then it makes the community as a whole look bad...anyway thats my spiele (sp? )

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:01 am

So what will it take to make you all happy?

I personally would like to put all this type of discussion to rest
so that I can concentrate on working on the site
and not have to spend the time trying to satisfy everyone.

And I'm fairly sure that everyone else does too...
Eraser does I know (it's making him upset to the point that it's affecting
his normally excellent good nature)...

Tell me exactly what you want...
Do you want an un-moderated Forum?
What is it going to take to end this nightmare so I can get back to
what I consider normal...for me anyway...what is it you're looking for?

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:23 am

im taking a huge step forward despite my lack of participation in all the other angst threads.

i think what everyone generally wants is liniency (sp?) in moderating. when everyone could voice their opinions. not to extremes of course. but only those extremes. just those should be kept away. leaving the rest open to discussion.

personally, i'd like a revision of the rules of the forum, just these two:

no gravedigging,
no repetition of topics.

imho, gravedigging should be a no no, and repetition of topics should be allowed.

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:11 am

<---- agrees with kimk on this thats a great idea...a revision of the rules and regs and a little slack in moderation.

good wording kimk

"To live is to die....but living is to die slowly..why waste time on trivial things just play as hard as you can"

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:17 am

I think there should be a forum which is almost totally unmoderated.

It should have all the necessary warnings, like "adult content, language may be used in this forum".

If members want to take potshots at each other then do so in this specific "Anything Goes" forum. No holds barred. And thus, should be unmoderated.

But reasonable moderation should be maintained in other forums. Freelancer is still a game and as such, minors (lol definition of a minor?) are likely to come across this site looking for information.

Deleting threads and member responses should be the ultimate, final, final resort. An alternative might be to move the thread if it's inflammatory to the "Anything Goes" forum !

Just a suggestion

*still giving virtual hugs to everyone*

ttfn

Post Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:20 am

@Esq, welcome to the lurking side.
@bp:
Maybe you should distribute the power a bit. Who is running this site? Two people? Maybe have ONE site editor, a big cheese. Then a news editor, a site maintainer, content creator, community representative, staff writers. Take on more staff. Put the message out that you want to reform the site and get it working as soon as possible. See how many people will donate THEIR free weekends to whittling together some new site graphics, some bug-fixes for the forum code, the solution to the news customisation feature, a better and easier news posting system. Delegate so you and Eraser can get back to planning. If the site admins need to be doing work AND planning the site, there's not enough staff.

Maybe you should look into reviewing each and every moderator you have on board. More than a few complaints have been made agaisnt more than a few moderators. Maybe some people are just bitter, maybe some have a point.

Maybe you should add a pay-pal button to the front page and try to get some money together to get out from under the mircrosoft thumb. Hell, an ad banner would be worth putting up with if you can start covering the games that people would respect you for covering instead of trying to appease an international software giant.

Maybe you should have a more open suggestion system, where you dont take every ciricism as a personal attack and more on a new direction you need to take the site. Dont forget that these problems have been building up over many years so its only natural that many of the problems are hitting you like an avelanche. Dont take them all to heart. Its better you know about them and can fix them than you ignore them and people get more annoyed.

Unmoderated forums CAN work, but WONT work here. There's too large a range of folk here to trust that they will be sensible. But what MIGHT be worth a try is to have them unmoderated and bring in new mods if and when the people start acting up. 19 mods (or whatever the real count is) is a joke in anyones book. If you need more than 5 i will be VERY suprised.

Maybe we DONT need so many forums, when you have to scroll down pages to view all of the forums, you know theres a problem when we only cover 2 games.

Maybe you need to start emulating other sites. There are similar community sites with games that no longer attract so many gamers, theyre still popular and alive because theyre doing something right. Sometimes its modifications like ours, sometimes its fan fiction, sometimes its multiplayer tournaments. Find out what we're NOT doing and put your focus on that.

Maybe send out a group email to everyone in the site database and ask for ONE THING they would like to see on TMR, then compile the list and do the top 10.

---

im not back, im lurking. I'll continue to post if and where i think my post will be helpful.

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