S'not the same thread, the one that got deleted had something about tumbleweed in the title.

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As to who ever deleted the thread? Does it matter now? No

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Sorry, Final but you are incorrect. The very act of deleting the thread has simply reinforced and legitimised many of the concerns that people have raised. People have been posting about "oppressive" moderators and "dictatorial" behaviour for quite a while now, and how will these people interpret the "mysterious" disappearance of a largely contructive thread? They aren't going to see it as a honest mistake, that's certain.

In any case, this particular event has had far more impact than a simple thread deletion because firstly it was a thread containing feeback from the community, and secondly, it was beginning to address people's specific concerns. By deleting it, it appears that the moderator in question is completely dismissing the communities feelings and concerns. Because the "mysterious" deleter is a member TLR's staff, it also appears to have been a decision made by TLR as a whole, and not just one rogue element. I am certain that it is the latter, but not everyone will feel this way, particularly those with grievances. For that reason, it would be better that the guilty individual come forward and explain their reasons, as they are bringing disrepute to the entire site.

Loc - Thanks for posting, and it is good to see you too buddy! It has been a while .

So now we have;
Dark_Shadow (the thread creator)
Chips
Final
Wizard
Harrier
Parabolix
BP
Eraser
Gowserpaul
Locutus

This means that logically, it was one of the other 7 active moderators, and I feel confident that I can drop more than half of those. As I have said, the noose is tightening.

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This means that logically, it was one of the other 7 active moderators, and I feel confident that I can drop more than half of those. As I have said, the noose is tightening.

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This is not constructive at the moment. The tone in which people are currently posting does not signify that this is being pursued this vigorously for reasons of openness and honesty - but more vitriolic vilification towards an individuals character. I remember this is something that some members purported this to be abhorrent behaviour indeed. Pray, what if someone owned up? If someone did indeed post claiming responsiblity - what then? Would you be satisfied with their claims of reasoning at all - or would you simply accept an apology perhaps?
Or would you question their motives, call their character into question, deconstruct their reasoning with defamatory statements and attempt to locate an alternative agenda?

Simply put - if people are targeting a specific individuals with whom they hold personal grudges or dislikes - then how can you claim your objectives are without an ulterior motive? I imagine strongly that if one certain person claimed responsiblity that you would bring out the pitch forks and scaffolding. What if I claimed it was me? Are you telling me that you wouldn't be disappointed that your target is not whom you wished for? If any of you had a 'disappointment' at all, then your purpose and reasoning for seeking out the 'truth' is not clearly defined within acceptable parameters.

As it stands, we are a team of people who attempt to do our best. We try to be fair to both older members, and newer members alike - without favouritism towards any particular party. A simple 'one person' is just not plain true, as we all operate with the same objectives in mind. Sometimes we make mistakes, sometimes we make lots of mistakes, sometimes we just plain cock up. We also sometimes weather on through being emasculated for what would appear to be public enjoyment and belittlement. At times, our feelings may cloud our judgements and reactions to situations - that only proves we are human.

So if someone made an honest judgement error, or if someone actually deleted it believing the topic to be widly unproductive/unconstructive - what would be your response to their claiming of responsiblity?

Lets face it, if your posting with glee, anticipating the 'catch' of a moderator - whereby you will undertake character assassination - then you are posting for very wrong reasons.

If its to give people a target to which they can point and blame - then that is all of us.

if the moderator who deleted it did admit to it, who in the right mind would not accept the apology? i mean, for someone to just straight say they did it/ tell why/apologise, it would be horrid for someone to just get mad.

I agree, I think that most of us here are mature enough to tak e an apology and explination and leave it at that. If that is not the case, then I have misjudged the TLR community very poorly.

"On this ship you are to refer to me as Idiot, not you Captain. I mean... you know what I mean."

True wolfy. Vigilanty Justice, went out with the old west. But, question is, would people move on with life at that point. No good answer on that one. My coment of does it mater no, is still true. No, it does not mater. I don't live my life, post in the forum or anything else based on what someone did, or didn't do, or weather they apoliogise or not. I truly would love to see, things setle down again, a bit of peace restored. The only thing standing in the way, is those who won't let it go.

Peace is a hard to achive thing, and precious when it is. I hate to see any chance of it coming back, to fail due to a desire for Justice. There are those in the US that throw a phrase around. No Justice, No Peace. It is rotten to the very core.

It is like the matial arts type, Name escapes me, where you use a persons momentum against him. No fighting back, but a guiding of the force in another direction. Eventually, the person tires themself out.

Nuff said. *Climbs off soap box* and *Shakes head*

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I truly would love to see, things setle down again, a bit of peace restored

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So you have to solve the problem, no ? And the person who deleted the thread is *contributing* to the problem. So to solve the problem, we need to know who and why they deleted the thread ...

Chips - Firstly, you are generalising. I defy you to find one post of mine in which I have personally attacked or vilified the "mysterious" thread deleter. There are some people who have grievances, but I am on a quest to find the guilty party, and attempt to understand their point of view; not demonise them. They have already done a great job of that themselves by deleting the thread and not owning up. To be honest, I find the deletion of the thread to be a contravention of TLR procedure, and something that is against the "rules 'n' regs" which the mod in question is bound to uphold. To make matters worse, the aforementioned thread, which was no ordinary thread, was deleted without the knowledge of the mods and, amazingly, without the knowledge of the administration. This is clearly not acceptable behaviour *especially* from a member of staff, and this needs to be addressed lest a similar situation arise. After all, judging from the comments of a number of posters, it is *precisely* that sort of behaviour that was and is behind much of the "hatred" that has been mentioned in this thread.

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I imagine strongly that if one certain person claimed responsiblity that you would bring out the pitch forks and scaffolding. What if I claimed it was me? Are you telling me that you wouldn't be disappointed that your target is not whom you wished for?

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As for my objectivity, when has that ever been in doubt? I have posted my views but have not supported one side over the other that I can recall. Can you *ever* recall me "flaming" anyone? If you wish to indict *my* credibility, please do so, we're all adults here, but I would hope that you would provide your reasons for doing so. Is seeking the truth wrong? I think not, but what people will do with the truth when it is revealed is not something that I can either predict nor justify, but it is still in everyone's best interests. As for "my target" or "hidden agenda" I have neither. In fact, I do not "wish" for anyone to be guilty, but someone obviously is as threads do not usually delete themselves. I have my suspicions as to who the deleter is of course, as do we all, and I have no doubt that all of the mods and admins know who it was by now, but I am not posting here to pin the blame on the deleter, but I *am* posting here because I am interested in the truth. The truth is that there is something wrong here Chips, as I have said. Otherwise, the thread would *not* have been deleted, and there wouldn't have been so many departures. Shouldn't we seek the truth, or should we just ignore all of this once again and hope that it will go away? After all, that has been tried before in other threads over the past few months and here we are back at stage one.

As for people accepting the apology and moving on, it is impossible to say, but it would be a start and a gesture of good faith from the "guilty" party. I would imagine that the hurt feelings would take some time to be resolved, but ignoring this issue won't make it go away as I have stated above. So either we do our best to find out who it was and trust that they can explain their actions in a mature and reasonable fashion, or else we let this thread die and say "It doesn't matter that a thread containing the community's concerns was deleted. The important thing is that we are still providing a service to our users; the reporting of news and mods." Which one is the top priority? The community or the service being provided? If the concerns of the community are not addressed, then TLR will be turning its back on the very people who patronise their site. Sure, if won't make a difference for the number of people who visit the frontpage and download mods, but it would be a blow to the very ideals of TLR. After all, I was under the impression that TLR was a "By the fans, for the fans" kind of website. Was I incorrect in making this assumption? I'm not asking for the mods/admins to identify the guilty party, but I would like the guilty party to come forward so that we can all engage in some frank and productive dialogue. After all, the person who deleted the thread in question was obviously had some concerns as to its content. Surely that is also an issue that should be addressed.

Edited by - esquilax on 2/3/2005 6:18:23 PM

I think Michael Jackson did it. Let me know when the lynch mob gets tired of holding the torches in the air like a KKK convention.

Hippo-crits on both sides of this fence.

Would you care to explain why you feel this way sampson, or would you prefer to simply snipe at everyone in this thread from the sidelines? Obviously you have an opinion and I, for one, would be interested in hearing it.

Edited by - esquilax on 2/3/2005 6:20:39 PM

No, Michael Jackson did do it. Damn mutants...

a life lesson: Never trust anyone who can't keep their own nose stuck to their face.

i second that, esq

Frankly I don't give two hoots about who did it or why anymore. Staff work as a team. They make sites work as they do. They represent image and ideals. A mistake by any staff members gives a bad image to the whole innocent or not. A manager is evaluated how an event is handled. If everybody have responsibility, there would be no paperwork in the world.
@Esq: I have to say that there is not much point to be debated even if we do know why and who did it. It's their call. If they choose to hide the truth, they might have their reasons. Let it go mate.

Sorry I haven't been on TLR for a while for reasons that are my own and this thread has been brought to my attention. Just so ya'll know I didn't delete it, it's never been my policy to delete threads unless they are pure acts of spam.