Add me to the list of moderators in the dark, I also just noticed the thread was gone. I did not see anything wrong with the thread, and had no reason to touch it. Now, I usually stay out of threads like this, because I see no way they will help in the long run, but I'll respond to this one.

I hadnt replied to the thread, hadnt considered it. (I know I will be flamed for what is coming up, but it's my feeling and I stand by it.) I don't see how they "help" the condition of the forums. Sure they help in that they "let people get things off their chests," but you cannot just show someone the thread, have everyone say sorry, and have old wounds permanently healed. I have said from the beginning that people need to simply chill out and stop taking these things so seriously, but recently I have noticed that people are inclinced to "win" (I am not innocent here, I have to win an argument) and wont simply agree to a draw and start over again. Until everyone can do that (never) these forums are in for a rough ride.

Furthermore, I believe that many people here are angry just because they can be angry. When Bargib handed the site over to Bakedpotato and Eraser it wasn't him saying "Ok folks, the site is closing down forever, BP and E can have the honors of closing it down", he was saying that he didnt have the time to run the site anymore. Many people didn't like it, and chose to be whiny about this topic, though nothing had even changed. They were angry about this on their own accord, BP and E had nothing to do with it, neither did Bargib. I am posting from a long-time member's perspective and not as a moderator, we all need to think about what we say and take responsibility for what we do to contribute to how this site runs. I know alot of you will say that "we cant do anything about how the site is run, thats up to BP, E, and the moderators", but you forget that the community controls the forums, without the community there is nothing for the staff to do, we all control our posts, and our actions, and need to recognize it, and take due responsibility, and stop being so immature about it. If you have a problem with someone take it up in an email, be mature about it, and dont simply yell at them in the forums like everyone does now, thats what started the site on its downfall in the first place. I ignore posts on almost a daily basis, and I think you could all do it yourselves as well. If you don't like something that isn't directed towards you, IGNORE it.

*Steps down from his soapbox*

Dark Shadow, reguardless of who deleted it, this is your oportunity, to not let it turn into something worse. You have you views and they will remain yours. One of the reasons I like TLR, the differences of opinion. But, don't let it get you even more angry over it. Let it go. Variety, is the spice of life, a little is good, but too much can ruin the stew. Cheers friend.

Edited by - Finalday on 2/2/2005 6:01:22 PM

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I know alot of you will say that "we cant do anything about how the site is run, thats up to BP, E, and the moderators", but you forget that the community controls the forums...

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Is that really the case Para? How can you explain the carte blanche authority that seems to have reared its ugly head? Don't you feel that the mods should be informed when a perfectly reasonable and constructive is not merely locked by excised as well? If neither Harrier, Chips, Wizard, Para, or Final had any idea of when or why the thread was deleted, then who does? Are these person(s) acting within the rules and regulations which are continually being touted and, if so, why would the thread be deleted under a shroud of secrecy? Surely at the *very* least, the mods should have an explanation.

you pose a good point Final, but i am not angry with anything BUT the deletion of views that were getting across by other members. Yes a differance in opinion is a GREAT thing, but it seems that if you have an opinion differing from "certain staff" you will be either flamed, locked...or in this case Silenced before a comprimise can be made. Variety is a good thing, thats the point of this argument, we are ALL "unique" people with different back grounds, upbrinigings and cultural heritages. BUT thats not what is under question here. The problem is the "tyrannical" approach at the moderation of posts..Nothing more nothing Less.

The addition of games is not on trial here, what is on trial here is what JUST happend...People being silenced because the "will of the masses differs from the masters" and in have said differing opinions we are silenced! It is outrageous!

But like you said it is MY opinion and thats true...but have you all not noticed that others have the same thought process just have vocalized it differently? Either way it is not sheer coincidence that a LOT of people have an issue with the way things are goin...but i guess time will have to tell if things can be agreed upon. But IMO the first step is an apology for the abuse of administrative powers over posts and threads that critisize the way the site is being run/maintained. Maybe after such an apology is made things MIGHT be able to slowly heal. Then a round table OPEN discussion over polocy needs to take place....but sadly i see this as a dream and not a reality

I'm not sure what happened to the other thread...
Seems there was allot of posting and deleting going on at the same time...
Who knows.

The point seems to be that allot of people have comments
and would like to voice their opinion...

So go ahead, say what you want in this thread.

We should all be able to act mature...and not post something so nasty
that it has to be edited...but go ahead and voice your opinion...
It's your community and we welcome the feedback.
Hopefully it will lead to something positive.

I do want to mention that we are working on the site.
Plans are to make seperate pages, or sites if you will, for the different sections...
Hopefully that will make everyone happy.

You are welcome to give your opinion and suggestions as to what you
would like to see here now and in the future...

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They were angry about this on their own accord, BP and E had nothing to do with it

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Bull. Bargib resigned of his own accord because he had real-life obligations and no-one got angry at that. Everone got angry because A NEW GAME FORUM WAS ADDED WITH NO REFERANCE TO THE COMMUNITY BY BP AND OTHERS AND THEN - this is why people are angry - BP TOLD EVERYONE WHO DIDN'T LIKE IT TO BUGGER OFF ! I cannot believe you can't see that.

It didn't help that other members got HATE MAIL, DEATH THREATS AND INSULTS BY E-MAIL FROM SEVERAL STAFF MEMBERS . I know of at least 2 moderators, and one administrator who sent all sorts of crap by e-mail to the people who disagreed strongly and publically. I hate to use capitals to get a point across, but people higher-up have proven that they cannot accept that point. Perhaps if the print is larger it might get past their clouded illusion of happiness which is obscuring their eyes and get it into their brains.

As for the admin/moderator who deleted ds's thread, own up. What you did was immature. Toddlers may try and cover the cracks in the vase with glue, but adults should try to find a soloution to the problem, not cover it up and try and forget about it. So whoever deleted the thread - you're contributing to the problem, not solving it.

Well, to be fair Neo, the same accusation could be levelled at you. Maybe this is a problem that has no solution or needs no solution. The people who have problems with this site *do* have somewhere else to go now. Perhaps it would be best for them (us) to simply stay there. TLR has changed. It's time to move on.

neo, i believe that more people wanted or agreed with the change that people who didn't.

some people like the change, some do not.
i don't care if anything on the site is changed, as long as it is here, i will be here. alot of the people who were here for a long time don't like the change, and i can understand that. for some people it could be like going from a Cable internet connection to dial up. for others it may be like merely changing cable services. the thing i don't get is how people react to the change.

Edited by - Wolf_Demon on 2/2/2005 7:08:22 PM

In terms of votes, the current poll about another game is this -

--- Poll ---
With "Age of Empires III", do you wish TLR to cover it...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavily and completely: 39%
Cover, but only a forum or two: 16%
Have news about it, but not much coverage: 10%
No coverage, not interested: 35%
Total Votes: 1345

Old Poll Results

The majority, does seem to want it. 739 do look foward to the Age game being added. Express your view, and vote.

oh...i didn't notice that, i'll go vote now
its a cool game, i think it would be good to cover

As a member of TLR since The begining of Starlancer, I am disappointed that a thread just vanished without a trace. This should never happened. I do not like to get myself involved in any heated discussions but IMO no thread should be deleted except when it is archiving time. If a thread is going where it is not supposed to be, a final comment and locking of topic should be done professionally. Deletion of threads should also not be in the hands of Users as it could create anonimity also. "I don't like your ideas. I am closing this topic. Locked". Simple, honest, Professional and we know who did it.

Ajim - Exactly. The thread should have been locked if there was a problem (setting aside the fact that no-one found the thread in question objectionable). That way, people would have the opportunity to object or petition to have it reopened.

Final - I just thought that I'd state that a margin of only 4% between the two extremes is pretty slim, so it's hardly a decisive "Yes!" .

Edited by - esquilax on 2/2/2005 11:03:41 PM

But Esq, what better way of getting people's minds off the topic ?
Simple : Erase the evidence.

Perhaps Neo, but *I* certainly noticed its mysterious disappearance, and far more speculation and discussion ensued as a result. Quite ironic I think.

That being said, would the mysterious thread-deleter please stand up and explain their reason(s) for doing so? If things continue as they are going, every moderator is going to post a denial, and we'll be left with the culprit. That would not be a good way to be discovered as the "guilty" party would it?

Edited by - esquilax on 2/2/2005 11:37:36 PM