i didnt like dune, although thats a judgement formed when i was about 10 and my dad forced me to watch all the way through. i havent had the desire to watch it again


"it has to start somewhere, it has to start sometime, what better place than here, what better time than now"

wasn't in that first one, Arch. Dune Messiah & Children of Dune, Muad'dib got his eyes fried by a y-ray generator but his prescience gained from Spice allowed him to "see" events with his mind; when I saw Neo's "gold" vision in M3 i thought that was pretty much how I imagined Muad'dib "saw" after he lost his eyes.

ok it's FF's prizetime. temporary thread hijack. this will be the last HH u'll see for a while.

we have an idiot web development guy where i work. he's a useless lazy f***er. comes in today, spks to me gaffer..

Web Dev Guy: can i have a new machine?
Gaffer: why?
WDG: this one's chogging, its cr*p
G: fine last time i saw it. what's up with it?
WDG: it's slow, it takes ages to do anything, can i have a new one?
(I jump in here. I think the gay's a d*ck anyway!)
Taw: is it the same problem as last time?
G: oh yeah? what problem was that then?
T: plonker had nearly run out space on hd. fragged to 86%. cleared some cr*p off onto another drive, defragged, everything hunky-dory.
WDG: errr well its cr*p now! that was ages ago..
G: have u bothered to scandisk and defrag?
WDG: err can't i have just have a new machine?
G: no f*ck off, what's up with this one? scandisk and defrag it
T: how much hd space have u got left?
WDG: about 30meg i think
T: (ROFTLMAO what a t*t!) 30meg? ur on W2K aren't u?
WDG: err yeah?
T: so how's ur f***ing paging file supposed to work, u mong? I told u about this last time, it's not like all that rubbish is work related anyway. have u filled that 30gig I put in as a slave already?
WDG: err no. i didn't know how to copy the files from one drive to another..
T: (ROFTLMAO!) u what? u total pr*ck, ur supposed to be a professional and u telling us u can't copy files from one place to another? f*ck off!
WDG: can't I just have a new pc?
G: F*ck off, no. clear ur drive off, scandisk and defrag and do NOT bother us again.
(WDG walks out to a chorus of justly scornful laughs..)

I absolutely hate amateurs who pose as professionals. This fool earns twice as much as me. Doesn't even know the difference between http: and ftp: (moron) - he's not long for this world (if I have anything to do with it..)

sorry about the thread hijack, but i didn't think this merited starting a new one! will keep on topic from now on







Edited by - Tawakalna on 20-11-2003 22:39:13

Please keep this on topic. It's one of the rare intelligent discussions

-- The Lancersreactor: where the screenshots are never blurry, and the script kiddies get publically kicked around.

The Lancersreactor FAQ
The use of signatures

I've been totally rethinking all this Matrix stuff and I think FF was right all along. seriously it makes far more straightforward sense than mine, although I still have the same doubts.

I have a question for you... Taw, you said that the Merovingian and Persiphonee were a previous set of the One and Trinity, right?

I have to know how their bodies have survived this long.

I believe that the body can't survive without the mind and vice-versa. Smith was a new mind for Bane, kind of like a total posession type thing. So Bane had a mind. But if those 2 are the previous pair, then there bodies would have fallen apart by now, unless the matrix has recycled thier "minds" on to other bodies and just kept them around for a long time.

"On this ship you are to refer to me as Idiot, not you Captain. I mean... you know what I mean."

ROFLMFAO Nice Signature Topher, i see you have been watching Enterprise lol. Anyways i was wondering about The Merovingian and Persephonie, cuz she constantly says "she will kill each and everyone of us if she has to" becuz i believe persphonie knows wot it's like to be inlove like Trinity and Neo, she knows that she would do anything to stop the war, The Merovingian i believe was once a potential ONE in the past and persephonie was the Frenchmans lover. However if they were once human and their minds taken into the matrix, that means that Neo Could have possible survived and be reimplanted into the matrix, letting the guys who made the matrix, to make another if they wish. But i don't quite frankly believe this is the course of action. I believe neo finally died and was reunited with trinity in a peaceful heaven. The Merovingiant and persephonie will live in the matrix as far as i know, forever!

The End lol

What? where has this insanity come from?
The Merovingian and Persephone are BLATANTLY programs, they are outcasts, programs that have outlived their usefullness but have refused to return to the source. They are incredibly old, relics from early incarnations of the matrix, as are their vampire henchmen. Merv even says "i have lived through your predecessors and i will live through you" to neo. No matter what, the human body can only live for the standard average of about 80 years, and there have been 5 oredecessors to neo. Even for Merv to live through one would make him over 100 years old, just because we already know that the current Zion has existed for 100 years.
Persephone and Merv were created as a couple, their programs linked, but over time, when they became redundant they didnt REALLY need each other any more. Their purpose vanished and Merv, like all men, began to loose intrest in Persephone. This is why Persephone says she remembers what its like to be loved and lives to feel the passion of love again, even if it is somone elses love. She is led by love, as if she exists only to experience love, which is why she ultimately chooses to help neo over Merv.


"it has to start somewhere, it has to start sometime, what better place than here, what better time than now"

i'm willing to accept this M and P possibility but i just figured like what Arcon said. Except i thought maybe persephone arrived after Merv. I never thought Neo had died (for some strange reason). But i spose he might have. The oracle seems to think he'll be back.

I don't think the script was ever that good tawa. Some interesting dialogues came up in m2 (in the engineering level) and so on. And the meeting with the oracle. I thought that was just loaded with great concepts. Suble suggestions in each line it seemed. I wouldn't say it was good at the start and became more cliche'd as it went. I think it was always corny from m1-m3. I do agree tho that the final movie was just wrapping story (in a matter of speaking). Perhaps people are disappointed that it was too conclusive? Personally i felt a lot of things were left up in the air but i was in the best position to appreciate m3. I hadn't seen any hype or any previews and i saw m2 on a crappy divx so it doesn't compare etc. It definately just concludes a story built in the previous titles.

As someone who was completely ignorant of prior hype: I enjoyed this movie as much as matrix 2. (just fyi) but i see your point.

kumari --- "You are ALL my brothers and sisters."

scrap my Merv and Pers theory, Archie's right. The Oracle def. said he was "one of the oldest of us" meaning he's a program (v. strong evidence) and by extension so should Pers be. He did say "ur predecessors" therefore suggesting they were another set of folks that didn't include him (a bit weaker that argument but still valid) this is starting to blow holes in all my theories bout the Matrix good, they were cr*p ideas anyway!

edit - yeh scrap most of my ideas, i just saw it again late last night, FF & Arch were right, I was trying to justify things that really weren't there I think

I'm still holding on to ZIAM, there's too many suggestions towards this idea for it to go away, and it solves so many contradictions. The age of the Matrix for one; Morpheus tells us it's nearer 2099, 2nd Renaissance shows us the war starting in our near future, so yeh abput 80-100yrs old. So how does Zion get through 6 invasions in that time frame? every 20 yrs? unfortunately the Council are all old people, well into their 60s and 70s, Anthony Zerbe actually says he woke up when he was 11? that's why he doesn't sleep much! so maybe he was grabbing a bit of shuteye during the 5 invasions he missed then? (just being sarcy!)

so the Matrix is far far older than we've assumed, and it's just M's pereception that its 100yrs old (I think FF already came up with a very cogent explanation of this) And, what about the Zion archives, where does this history of humanity come from? if the machines were totally victorious and killed or enslaved every human on Earth, how does anyone know about history? from the original One, maybe? where do the knowledge, raw materials, technology and labour to rebuild Zion come from? this ain't gonna happen every 20 yrs is it, there's generations of work in building the underground city, so the Matrix must be between 500 and a thousand yrs old. OR it's a Matrix, an illusion with false memories of events that never happened, controlling the actions of a few dysfunctional elements left over from a previous cleansing. I really do prefer the latter, it fits in so well with so many other elements, but it's troubling me now, it still doesn't feel "right"

I still have trouble with this what is the body without the mind and vice-versa. if a machine mind is so like a humans that it can take over a human body (Smith/Bane) and machine minds can live in the Matrix without an external host, then humans can survive in the Matrix without a body too, surely. No prob for M & P there. but again I've rethought this and they are progs, just programmed to "love" like Sati's dad explained to Neo in the railway tunnel. btw I don't think Neo is dead at all, he's just flaked. Even if his body is dead, I'm sure he's still in the Matrix. Do u actually see him def. dead? nopers, he's just lying still, if he was dead meat the machines wouldn't have dramatically floated him away like that. He's still part of them, I'm sure.

if the Wachowski's had been able to properly reconcile their various plot elements it wouldn't be q so confusing, unf. weve got some fairly big plot contradictions. if yu go down one path, u find another strand taking u eleswhere that forces u to abandon criticique plan A! i think they tried to cram too much in the realised they couldn't reconcile it all and blatantly abandoned stuff for the sake of progressing the action, not really caring whether it left ideas "in the air" Why should they care? we all went to see it, didn't we? enough sfx and u can get away with sloppy writing.

btw check this out! it's very funny, bit preachy though, sorry about that..

Edited by - Tawakalna on 21-11-2003 12:03:34

Edited by - Tawakalna on 22-11-2003 12:02:13

Archie your wrong, Merovingian did not say i have lived through your predeecessors, he says " I Have SURVIVED your predeccesors and i will survive YOU" to neo actually ¬,¬

sorry, "survived" then. I guess saying 'lived' would imply that he is alive....he is not.


"it has to start somewhere, it has to start sometime, what better place than here, what better time than now"

it's a much better film second time around, i enjoyed it a lot more and it made a bit more sense (not much though) but now I could concentrate pretty much on the imortant elements i.e sfx and visuals, which is of course where it excels.

---

Morpheus tells us it's nearer 2099

---

Correct me if im wrong but isn't it 2199?

yeah he says, "You believe it's the year 1999, but infact it's closer to 2199, but to be honest with you, we arn't sure" just checked it >_>