The Matrix - philosophy discussions and MAJOR spoilers

Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:41 pm by Fear Factor

Finally it's here! Actually I wouldn't mind of one of you started it earlier, and I know that you are getting impatient, but between college and real life, it took my one week to synthesize and articulate. This essay is entirely my own, I didn't read any of those The Matrix philosophy books out there, although I would love to if they weren't so expensive

.

Ok here I start -

Oracle was the one who resurrected Smith after his defeat by Neo in the 1st movie - resurrecting him as a virus so powerful that screws up with the system, the Matrix, so bad that no one can stop it. Except of course, Neo. She implanted/discovered Neo's talents and bred him to fight Smith. Why the hassle? as she said, for peace. First, she creates the monster (Smith) and then creates the antidote. None of them now are under the control of the Matrix or Agents. With Smith wreaking havoc, Neo can then be presented as the bargaining chip to the Machines: accept Neo's term and grant the humans a cease-fire, or she lets Smith take over the entire Matrix and cut off the energy supply.

This has gone off several times already - she has tried several Neos before, but this is the first time Smith has ever been granted such an overwhelming power. As stated in Reloaded, 1% of the Matrix inhabitants are not "compatible" and needs to be unplugged. The Machines apparently clueless as to which of these humans are incompatible. They needed to "outsource" this function - ironically, to the resistance. This is why the Machines tolerated the existences of Zions (right, plural). The previous "free" bastions of human resistance were required to house the "resistance" - unplugged minds hacking into the Matrix to free these incompatible souls.

However, once the Machines feel that the resistance has grown too influential and beyond the controls of the in-matrix agents, they attack and raize the cities over and over again. Each time, Oracle would pick one of her 'talents' to become The One, but each of the previous Neos have failed to save their Zions.

After each Zion was broken, a number of survivors were reinserted into the Matrix, where they would serve as seeds for the next Resistance. They (or perhaps their decendants) would somehow wake up from the Matrix (like shown in 2 of the Animatrix shorts - World Record and The Kid's Story), escape the power plant, and start a new civilization, a new Zion, and in turn start the hacking in again. Apparently the Machines have perfected this formula of "balance" over at least several cycles. The last cycle, the last Zion, apparently existed for at least 100 years - and this indeed makes the Matrix far older than previously thought, perhaps well into the 30th century.

Oracle has seen her Saviors fail repeatedly, and decided that a powerful Hero is not enough - for he is bound by his own humanity. There needs to be a villain so powerful that would force the Architect and Neo to ally - or at least stop fighting for a while. The final step to ensure this villain's powerfulness, she lets herself be absorbed by Smith (giving him the powers of prophecies, if you can call it that), but at the same time planted a trojan that would entirely "deinstall" all the Smiths from the Matrix - a trojan that would only work once Smith has totally assimilated the entire Matrix and assimilated the last free mind in the Matrix - Neo. Somehow Neo triggers whatever self-destruct routine Oracle planted in Smith when she allowed herself to be assimilated.

Conclusion: we see that Oracle made the Architect finally capitulates to her terms - no more attacks on Zion and that all the Matrix inhabitants who wish to leave would be allowed to. Those who leave would live a harsh (but independent) lives, those who stay will serve in a mutual, consenting symbiosis with the Machines. Humans finally achieve freedom in directing their choice of life.

The Architect was forced to oblige because Oracle has demonstrated her determination (by sacrificing herself to her own creation) just to see peace endure between humans and machines. In an analogy, she showed up to "play chicken" totally drunk and then ripped off her steering wheel in full view of the Architect

. She was willing to sacrifice Neo, Trinity, herself, and all machines and the humans in Zion for the sake of peace - this is something she had never done before even after her loyal continuous support to the resistance - and it worked this time.

She usually only support the Resistance and act as a counterbalance program for the Architect, but she is now taking it further by directly attacking the Matrix inhabitants (by proxy of Smith) and threatens the power supply of the Machines. And while her previous Neos finally only acted as the choosers of survivors (seeds for future resistance), the last Neo is presented as the champion for both humans and machines.

The hero of the final victory was ironically not Neo or any other humans, but Oracle, a program initially written only to bring balance to the Matrix. That was it - thank you for reading. Please feel free to poke any holes in my theories, after all that is how societies achieve balance (pun fully intended)

EDITED for typos

Edited by - Fear Factor on 16-11-2003 17:47:46

Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:05 pm by Tawakalna

not bad, i agree with most of what u say; but how do you work out that Smith is the Oracle's creation? what if the difference this time is that Neo is a more powerful One than his predeccesors (a point alluded to by the Artichoke) and thus Smith is an accidental "evolution" who the Oracle develops a tactic to deal with? otherwise we go back to simple "dualism."

also, what if Zion itself isn't "real" but an other adjunct to the Matrix where the disaffected percentage go to? after all the simulations are so real that unless u know its a simulation it is to all intents and purposes "real" and it would explain the role of Morpheus; after all in classical mythology Morpheus is the God of Sleep

Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:17 pm by Fear Factor

but how do you work out that Smith is the Oracle's creation?

if I am not mistaken, Smith addressed Oracle as "Mother" just seconds before assimilating her.

There is absolutely no proof or mention of Zion being another layer of the Matrix. It is just a speculation sparked after Reloaded - If you're talking about Neo's power extending to outside the Matrix, I think the same way Smith found a way outside the Matrix to the real world (damn Oracle for being so cryptic when Neo asked her the how question

).

And let's hypothetically assume that Zion is layer. Are you suggesting that Morpheus isn't a human at all, but a mole program, a spybot planted among the "free" humans?

Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:39 pm by Warlord Bob

Bravo FF! Very nice

Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:52 pm by Tawakalna

i honestly didnt clock that he called her "Mother" at that point. so that strengthens ur argument! but bear in mind that Artichoke said that if he was the father of the Matrix, then she would be its mother, so it might just be a wry reference on Smith's part, after all he does do a good line in irony.

as to Morpheus, then yeah pretty much thats what he could be, a spybot, conceptually. His function is to search out disaffected minds and aid their "escape" after all if u go with my argument, that there is no "real world" that we've seen yet, and it's all constructs, how do u determine who is human and who is a program? Morpheus could well be fulfilling his programming and be totally unaware he isnt human and be acting in all good faith, leading the anomalies to where they can be dealt with. it also explains his single minded obsession with his beliefs in the face of all reason, and why he's so useless in Revolutions, because he no longer has a role.

i'm sticking with this idea of Zion and indeed the entire real world we see being another matrix, it makes much more sense like that, gives Morpheus and Trinity much more defined roles, and is a much better explanation of how Neo is able to effect the machines in the real world. and don't forget, at the end of the battle, M says "is it real?" ok he could just be expressing his disbelief at their deliverance (but surely if his faith was so strong he wouldn't have been so surprised) myself i think that should have led to a true revelation, that Zion wasn't real and "real" reality was something else instead.

but now i'm thinking about it, ur explanation is better

Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:01 pm by Locutov

*sarcasm generator activated*

Are you suggesting that Morpheus isn't a human at all, but a mole program, a spybot planted among the "free" humans?

Nothing some spyware won't solve

*sarcasm generator terminated*

Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:22 pm by freighter fighter

so neo is a program?

Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:53 pm by Arcon

thats crazy.

Ok. The real world IS real. Thats kinda what the Wachowskis have said. They could have gone with the ZIAM (Zion is a matrix) theory but didnt. Thank GOD i say. anyway.

Taw's spot on, Smith calls the Oracle "mom" because she is the "mother of the matrix". She didnt create Smith or even have anything to do with Smith's increasing powers. Neo created that little problem himself.

When neo jumped into smith at the end of M1, they fused together. Neo posessed and destroyed the host body. Like you would kill an agent if you shot them. Smith WASNT DELETED at that point. his program just jumped into another body. Lets understand that the "program" of smith cant be seen, we just see its effects. The "soul" of smith, if you like, takes physical form by posessing anothers body, overriding their RSI (Residual Self Image) and motor functions, thus enabling them to move quick etc. When Smith and Neo posessed the same body at the same time, there created the anomoly we know as smith from reloaded and revolutions. Smith was altered with core items from Neo, basically his free will. He also got a load corrupted as well, having the ability to absorb other programs and shells instead of jumping between them one at a time.

As the oracle told us in reloaded, any program that doesnt have a purpose must return to the source, in essence - be deleted, but with smith's new found freedom he tells us that he "knew the rules" but didnt want to return. He chose to stay in the matrix, life over death.

Its possible that the oracle had some control over how neo managed to do this. There's alot of talk in matrix forums that the cookies and sweets that the oracle offers neo are programs, designed to optimise neo or improve him in some way. By the time of the thrid film, when neo refuses the cookie, it signifys that Neo is complete. What these programs did to him if they do or do not exist is up in the air. It could be that they enabled him to connect to the matrix without being jacked in or maybe it was the flashes of the route to 01 so that neo had a hint as to where to go. Who knows, maybe the fans are looking to much into everything.

I personally dont think that the Oracle had a hand in the creation of Smith, i think he's an anomoly that is really the only reason the loop of the "one" didnt keep going. The oracle may be there to "unballance the equation" as it were, but her primary goal, her role as a program, is to bring about the finding of the one and the reseting of the "real world loop". Along the way, she felt compassion for humans, beleived in their cause because she was supposed to. She chose to help, in the end, take a risk and bring about peace. Peace couldnt have happened without her, but she didnt know what was going to happen. At the end, she tells ghost that she didnt know, but she believed. She tells Neo "youve made a believer out of me", neo's power, from what we can tell, exceeds the skill of previous 'ones' but still, despite his power, no "one" could ever defeat the machine army. Purely by chance, the existance of smith, is what saves the day and the human race. At the end, regardless of neos abilities, peace only came about because of smith, and that belief that Neo knew how to broker a peace.

I find it quite interesting that since the division of humans and machines back in 2nd Rennaisance, the Machines have grown more "human like". I liked when Neo met with Deus Ex Machina, DEM shouted "WE DONT NEED YOU, WE DONT NEED ANYONE!". It was interesting that the machines had developed outright Hatred, that they were, in fact, as guilty as humans for the war.

On the matter of ZIAM:
- If zion was part of another matrix, there would be no need to actually bother with an invasion when they wanted to bring about a reset. If the occupants only needed the "perception" of escape and freedom then in their last dying moment it would be rather "extra cruel" for the machines to show them that they are, in fact, still plugged in by juse "deja vu"ing the Zion Matrix and just unplugging the guys in zion.
- If Zion was a matrix, then because Neo would still, in theory, be in another pod in another matrix, would it not be very easy for the machines to simply kill Neo in his pod?
- If Zion was a matrix, the machines wouldnt want Neo to return to the source

i think ive rambled long enough...

"it has to start somewhere, it has to start sometime, what better place than here, what better time than now"

Edited by - Arcon on 16-11-2003 19:58:28

Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:02 pm by kumari

"Is neo a program?" I don't think that's the idea. Even morpheus need not be a program in the layered theory (afaik). I don't like the layered theory. It's too easy to fit it to anything, very open ended. FF i like ur essay

I just took the "mother" comment as was just mentioned "she was the mother of the matrix". But logically what i like about your ideas is that "what's different about this matrix - the 6th matrix - has come from a source which existed throughout most of them" Like an external force to affect the cycle/pattern of matrix rebirth. For that to come from within the matrix would require chance. Mmm nice ideas.

btw there was a reference to the matrix within a matrix at the very beginning of matrix 3. Did anybody notice? But that was the only reference i noticed.

Oh, is it a joke that people are calling the architect the artichoke? I certainly laughed. An artichoke is a vegetable afaik.

kumari --- "You are ALL my brothers and sisters."

Edited by - kumari on 16-11-2003 20:11:52

Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:05 pm by Wizard

Smith adressed to the Oracle as mother.

What I didn't get is one of the last scenes. Right after Smith bursted (you know, with all the light) you see a shot of you think should be Neo but it turns out to be The Oracle. Can someone explain that?

Regarding to FF's "Oracle puts Trojan in Smith" theory: I believe otherwise. The Oracle was talking about equations remember. When Smith is about to destroy Neo you can say that Smith solved the equations. But because Neo somehow messes it up again (by standing up and fighting Smith, which is different then Smith saw in his visions) Smith isn't able to cope with the problem and kind of blows himself up. (so it's not the Oracle who triggers the self destruct in any way, but Smith himself)

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Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:17 pm by Fear Factor

btw there was a reference to the matrix within a matrix at the very beginning of matrix 3. Did anybody notice?

Please tell me what that is

i must have missed it! I considered the Layered Matrix Theory, but ditched it. I might need to revise my essay.

Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:17 pm by Tawakalna

@Wiz. I think that was just how they chose to edit it. it's a birth/mother thang. everything new is born in pain.

@kumari. yes it is a joke on the word Architect, but it is a little deeper than a deliberate mispronunciation of the word.

/reminder to self. must get one of those cool H&K MP5KA4s they use so much in the Matrix

Edited by - Tawakalna on 16-11-2003 21:56:16

Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:23 pm by kumari

{The layered reference in Revolutions went like this: The 3rd movie begins in the usual way with a real close up on some green characters and zooms out to become a city of matrix numbers/letters (in the image that neo sees things) - THEN the city of numbers and letters zooms out to become a character on link's screen (i think it's the number 4 or something). At the completion of the movie i didn't recall any other "layer" references so i figured it was just a red-herring they threw in at the start for all the ZIAM theorists to get excited. I would also say it was a red-herring on the grounds that it was so obvious (that's not to say it was obvious but if the layered theory were true then this reference was "too" obvious if u ask me.)}

i think everything would be nice if smith was destroyed from the reason (by the same means) which he was created. I would look to explaining his creation in such a way that it also suits his destruction. Perhaps not.

I like the idea that the machines have evolved into a form of life like humans are now. I think the movies explored the difference between human and machine as qualities such as love and compassion. Many victories and decisions were based on these "human" strengths (this is a reason i like the movies). Smith was supposed to be the opposite of Neo. I would look to explain his creation as based on the opposite of Love/compassion or something. He does have that big speech for Morpheus on m1 "i haaaate this place!" etc.

I think at least it's safe to assume that he's generally "not feeling the love"

Asside from that - towards the end of neo-smith fight in m3 neo distinguishes himself by saying "i choose to" and thereafter smith loses for no apparent reason. If u consider that Neo is responsible for the victory and also that the 2 guys are like identical opposites then the answer may lie in "a difference" between the 2 guys. Perhaps Neo was pointing out the difference there. He had choice... i don't see how that explains anything tho

kumari --- "You are ALL my brothers and sisters."

Edited by - kumari on 16-11-2003 20:40:09

Edited by - kumari on 16-11-2003 20:44:52

Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:40 pm by Fear Factor

Regarding to FF's "Oracle puts Trojan in Smith" theory: I believe otherwise. The Oracle was talking about equations remember. When Smith is about to destroy Neo you can say that Smith solved the equations. But because Neo somehow messes it up again (by standing up and fighting Smith, which is different then Smith saw in his visions) Smith isn't able to cope with the problem and kind of blows himself up. (so it's not the Oracle who triggers the self destruct in any way, but Smith himself)

If you try and broaden my concept of 'trojan' we can apply this theory of yours into mine. Basically I meant that Oracle knew Smith was going to assimilate her, and prepared a trap. Oracle has somehow evolved human traits, unlike Smith. Smith was full of hatred, yes, but that was just how he was programmed - to hate the hackers. Oracle has developed something no programs could ever do: faith. She KNEW that Smith was going to defeat Neo, but she HAD FAITH that Neo would be the final victor.

So yeah Wiz, you might be right here - Oracle's trap might not be some trojan program routine, it might be something as simple as 'faith'. After absorbing Oracle, Smith then obtained the KNOWLEDGE that he would win, just like Oracle knew, but Smith being a program, chose to ignore Oracle's human traits - such as faith and belief. When Neo rose once again to challenge him for the final time (as Oracle believed that he would), this destroyed Smith.

As for Arcon's argument that Neo was the one causing the Smith Anomaly, I theorize that Oracle was still responsible for Neo causing this. Something she said to Neo, or given him (as you suggested, in the forms of cookies) might have influenced Neo in how he would act. Although not exactly puppets to her, the talents are under her "guidance". Any of them could have been the Chosen One. Remember when she told Neo that he was NOT the One? we know of course that he IS. Why would she tell him otherwise? because by lying to him is the only way to revive Neo's hidden talent. My conclusion is that Oracle has a far bigger influence to Neo's talents and decisions than we had initially predicted.

Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:50 pm by Tawakalna

exactly, kumari. we're given this contrast all along. Neo and the humans have "hope" which gives them their reason to exist, their purpose, a defining quality which humans can choose, machines can't. bereft of their programming they dont have any hope. the Architect as much as admits this in M2 and that film just hammers the purpose theme home all along.

the Oracle realises that the only hope is to give the machine world a human quality even if only by proxy. left to Smith it would be as barren as the "real" world that humanity itself destroyed. and in a parallel to our other favourite film trilogy "there is no life in the void"

@FF i wondered too if Smith absorbed the Oracle's knowledge and abilities, or if she was still in him somewhere, that's what i thought was going on at the end of his big fight with Neo. hence it would make sense after Smith exploded in light for the next shot to be of the Oracle

Edited by - Tawakalna on 16-11-2003 20:54:27

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