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Discussion on Control Your Own Faction 3
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I think Arilias was on the right track about capital ship movement. If capital ships need jumpgates, that would limit thier ability to attack criminal factions. Along those same lines, I believe bombers should be available to everyone as a modifacation to the VHF ( so before you could buy bombers, you would first have to have VHFs). Also, we need to majorly limit the number of new systems. More than 5 or 6 total gets hard to keep track of. Finally, we should implement some new strategic elements into the game such as mines and wep. platforms, as well as ban attacking frienly corporations (something that got way out of hand this time).
What should have happened in this game is that the Corsairs should have had the Omegas, the GMG would have had the Sigmas, and the Outcasts should have had the Taus. Everyone else would have battled over the Omicrons.
That didn't work because a) the Outcasts were attacked first thing in the game, b) Outcast 1-1 retired, and then c) Bretonia got greedy and swept in.
Edit: Ban attacking friendly corporations? YOU CRAZY???!?! I need to kill them to survive...
Also, no finales this time. How about we end it when three factions are killed off entirely? (e.g. Kusari, the Corsairs, and IMG) (Just an example!!!) Then the game ends and CYOF 2.1 (which looks really weird after this one, btw) begins.
Edited by - [ACWilde on 11/29/2004 4:38:06 AM
That didn't work because a) the Outcasts were attacked first thing in the game, b) Outcast 1-1 retired, and then c) Bretonia got greedy and swept in.
Edit: Ban attacking friendly corporations? YOU CRAZY???!?! I need to kill them to survive...
Also, no finales this time. How about we end it when three factions are killed off entirely? (e.g. Kusari, the Corsairs, and IMG) (Just an example!!!) Then the game ends and CYOF 2.1 (which looks really weird after this one, btw) begins.
Edited by - [ACWilde on 11/29/2004 4:38:06 AM
Nice going guys, but i think we need to keep this as simple as possible.
Perhaps individual RP could be everyones first post, to have a little back ground about the type of leader you are going to be. Anyone that joins has to make this the first post. Perhaps, if you want to post a bit more about your leader, at critical stages in the story for example, then ask the rest of the players or the judges.
Arguing amongst each other needs to calm down a bit too.
I still protest at the discovery of new systems as this only complicates matters. How is it decided what resources the system has?
Perhaps, instead of having individual systems generating resources, each house, faction and criminal per turn have pre determined resources. For example, Liberty generates 20 Credits, 50 metal and 40 food per turn and have someone like the Farmers Alliance 10 credits, 20 metal, 80 food per turn. Each Ship type then has its own cost too.
Something needs to be done about wars as well. Maybe, at the start of CYOF 3, each house is under a treaty that only concerns the big 4. No open conflict between each other unless a non house ally attacks or something like that. Or we could have sub factions. No Bretonian corp can attack bretonia and so forth so effectivley, Bretonia is a faction and everything associated with it is tied in. Although this no doubt would cause restrictions on what people do.
Perhaps individual RP could be everyones first post, to have a little back ground about the type of leader you are going to be. Anyone that joins has to make this the first post. Perhaps, if you want to post a bit more about your leader, at critical stages in the story for example, then ask the rest of the players or the judges.
Arguing amongst each other needs to calm down a bit too.
I still protest at the discovery of new systems as this only complicates matters. How is it decided what resources the system has?
Perhaps, instead of having individual systems generating resources, each house, faction and criminal per turn have pre determined resources. For example, Liberty generates 20 Credits, 50 metal and 40 food per turn and have someone like the Farmers Alliance 10 credits, 20 metal, 80 food per turn. Each Ship type then has its own cost too.
Something needs to be done about wars as well. Maybe, at the start of CYOF 3, each house is under a treaty that only concerns the big 4. No open conflict between each other unless a non house ally attacks or something like that. Or we could have sub factions. No Bretonian corp can attack bretonia and so forth so effectivley, Bretonia is a faction and everything associated with it is tied in. Although this no doubt would cause restrictions on what people do.
I think we have already discovered a way to add RP into the next RPG without realizing it. The News bulletins that people have started to use are perfect.
As for the pirate factions, the best way to give them a fighting chance is to make a rule that prevents or restricts the use of capital ships in attacks agianst bases other than corporation and House. Also add a new stat to ships called base attack that would be used when a ship attacks a base or planet. Then allow all factions to create a modified VHF with a high base attack and capital attack, basically a new twist on the bombers we already have.
As for the pirate factions, the best way to give them a fighting chance is to make a rule that prevents or restricts the use of capital ships in attacks agianst bases other than corporation and House. Also add a new stat to ships called base attack that would be used when a ship attacks a base or planet. Then allow all factions to create a modified VHF with a high base attack and capital attack, basically a new twist on the bombers we already have.
The reason we created all these rules was because the original game was too subjective. If we only allowed vetrans to play we could make it work, but the idea of this RPG is that it is open to anyone, and as such needs rules to keep the nOOb insanity in check.
Here is a list of all my suggestions. Instead of posting all over the place I will simply edit this post if I think of anything else.
Sign-ups--- Wait at least a week to 10 days after the sign-up board is posted before anyone posts their turns, to give enough players time to sign up.
System exploration--- we need to eliminate or severly reduce system exploration. If it proves to be a feature we cant do without I would suggest that players could attempt to "discover" the 2 unknown systems from the game (the place with the monkeys and the nomads). If we decide to incorporate the order and the nomads into the game they could each start out with one of those systems.
Capital ships/bombers---
A. Capital ships would not be able to attack bases other than those initially owned by Houses or corporations (even if the ownership of a base changed its location would not so the rule would still apply). A good rule of thumb would be that if a base is not on the trade lanes, capital ships can't get to it.
B. Ships larger than a gunboat can only enter and leave a system through the jump gates. If a faction (such as the corsairs) wanted to build capital ships they would need to construct a shipyard in a system with a jump gate. They could build a shipyard in an unconnected system if they so desired, but the ships would not be able to leave that system.
C. Since capital ships would no longer be able to attack criminal bases, all factions would be able to build bombers using the following method:
1. Research bomber tech (same cost and odds as VHF research).
2. Upon sucessful completion the player would then have the option during his turn to convert existing HFs or VHFs into bombers for a cost to be determined later.
3. Conversion would take one turn. During that time, the fighters being converted can not move or particpate in battle. Each fighter being converted would also occupy one construction space in the shipyard just like they were being built from scratch.
4. To convert a ship it must be moved to a system with a shipyard. (in other words if the fighters you wanted to use as bombers were in an enemy system you could not convert them on the battlefield. You would have to move them to the shipyard, convert them, and move them back again.
5. A bomber would have starting stats of 1 FA, 1 FD, 5 CA, 3 CD, 9 BA, 4 BD(I'll explain this later)
6. If it were necessary to give smaller factions more of a head start you could also change the rule so that minor factions would only have to research bombers, everyone else would have to research VHFs before the could research bombers.
bases--- bases would have upgradeable stats like ships. Large bases would have better stats than small bases. Possible starting stats would be:
small base 6 FA, 8 FD, 4 CA, 4 CD, 3 BA, 4 BD
large base 8 FA, 9 FD, 5 CA, 6 CD, 3 BA, 5 BD
For those of you who haven't figuered it out yet BA and BD are base attack and base defense. For bases they stand for bomber attack and defense (since it is fairly difficult for bases to attack other bases). When a bomber attacks or is attacked it uses the appropriate set of stats like any other ship. So if a bomber is attack by a fighter its FA and FD are used, if it is attacking a capital ship it uses its CA and CD, you get the basic idea.
We also need a system to capture bases and planets rather than destroy them.
Perhaps something like the original rules where the attacker could use transports as boarding ships, but make it more difficult to accomplish. Planets would only be able to be captured since we don't have superweapons (death star for sale, lightly used, slight plasma damage).
Customizeable stats--- Perhaps for advanced players who want to add more strategy, use a Dungeons and Dragons style if deciding ship stats. Everyone would get a certain ammount of status points which they could divide among the different ship stats during their first turn.
There are two ways I can see to do this. A) One would be to give the player a grand total of stat points for each category (FA, CD, ect.) which they could divide among all their ships. This would allow the person setting up the rules to make certain factions better in some areas and worse in others The other and probabbly better alternative B ) is to give the player a certain amount of points he could divide between each ship type such as fighters, capital ships, bombers, transports, ect.
I will give an example of how this assignment phase would work in another post since this one is getting so long.
Edited by - vorticaldwarf on 11/30/2004 1:58:02 PM
Edited by - vorticaldwarf on 12/1/2004 7:34:32 AM
Edited by - vorticaldwarf on 12/1/2004 7:35:04 AM
Here is a list of all my suggestions. Instead of posting all over the place I will simply edit this post if I think of anything else.
Sign-ups--- Wait at least a week to 10 days after the sign-up board is posted before anyone posts their turns, to give enough players time to sign up.
System exploration--- we need to eliminate or severly reduce system exploration. If it proves to be a feature we cant do without I would suggest that players could attempt to "discover" the 2 unknown systems from the game (the place with the monkeys and the nomads). If we decide to incorporate the order and the nomads into the game they could each start out with one of those systems.
Capital ships/bombers---
A. Capital ships would not be able to attack bases other than those initially owned by Houses or corporations (even if the ownership of a base changed its location would not so the rule would still apply). A good rule of thumb would be that if a base is not on the trade lanes, capital ships can't get to it.
B. Ships larger than a gunboat can only enter and leave a system through the jump gates. If a faction (such as the corsairs) wanted to build capital ships they would need to construct a shipyard in a system with a jump gate. They could build a shipyard in an unconnected system if they so desired, but the ships would not be able to leave that system.
C. Since capital ships would no longer be able to attack criminal bases, all factions would be able to build bombers using the following method:
1. Research bomber tech (same cost and odds as VHF research).
2. Upon sucessful completion the player would then have the option during his turn to convert existing HFs or VHFs into bombers for a cost to be determined later.
3. Conversion would take one turn. During that time, the fighters being converted can not move or particpate in battle. Each fighter being converted would also occupy one construction space in the shipyard just like they were being built from scratch.
4. To convert a ship it must be moved to a system with a shipyard. (in other words if the fighters you wanted to use as bombers were in an enemy system you could not convert them on the battlefield. You would have to move them to the shipyard, convert them, and move them back again.
5. A bomber would have starting stats of 1 FA, 1 FD, 5 CA, 3 CD, 9 BA, 4 BD(I'll explain this later)
6. If it were necessary to give smaller factions more of a head start you could also change the rule so that minor factions would only have to research bombers, everyone else would have to research VHFs before the could research bombers.
bases--- bases would have upgradeable stats like ships. Large bases would have better stats than small bases. Possible starting stats would be:
small base 6 FA, 8 FD, 4 CA, 4 CD, 3 BA, 4 BD
large base 8 FA, 9 FD, 5 CA, 6 CD, 3 BA, 5 BD
For those of you who haven't figuered it out yet BA and BD are base attack and base defense. For bases they stand for bomber attack and defense (since it is fairly difficult for bases to attack other bases). When a bomber attacks or is attacked it uses the appropriate set of stats like any other ship. So if a bomber is attack by a fighter its FA and FD are used, if it is attacking a capital ship it uses its CA and CD, you get the basic idea.
We also need a system to capture bases and planets rather than destroy them.
Perhaps something like the original rules where the attacker could use transports as boarding ships, but make it more difficult to accomplish. Planets would only be able to be captured since we don't have superweapons (death star for sale, lightly used, slight plasma damage).
Customizeable stats--- Perhaps for advanced players who want to add more strategy, use a Dungeons and Dragons style if deciding ship stats. Everyone would get a certain ammount of status points which they could divide among the different ship stats during their first turn.
There are two ways I can see to do this. A) One would be to give the player a grand total of stat points for each category (FA, CD, ect.) which they could divide among all their ships. This would allow the person setting up the rules to make certain factions better in some areas and worse in others The other and probabbly better alternative B ) is to give the player a certain amount of points he could divide between each ship type such as fighters, capital ships, bombers, transports, ect.
I will give an example of how this assignment phase would work in another post since this one is getting so long.
Edited by - vorticaldwarf on 11/30/2004 1:58:02 PM
Edited by - vorticaldwarf on 12/1/2004 7:34:32 AM
Edited by - vorticaldwarf on 12/1/2004 7:35:04 AM
uumm not much to explain if you don't know what BA and BD are your kinda lost to begin with (mentially sorry for the insult) but BA obviously Base Attack and BD Base Defense duh
Oh well thought I'd post here. I'd like to take my chance with one of the smaller factions. if the Order was allowed into the game I'd be them seeing how they only have 1 Battleship and a ****load of fighters. VD's plan for bombers could be a good one. It would limit the size of fleets because people would be dumping a bunch of resources into bomber construction to go after all the NPC factions in their space.
Also if the Order is introduced they should be given a first Strike capability. (seeing how everything they have cloaks hint Osiris hint hint) but The Nomads I think would have to be a Judge or something so they can add Random events every 5 turns or so. just to keep things spiced up.
-John
Oh well thought I'd post here. I'd like to take my chance with one of the smaller factions. if the Order was allowed into the game I'd be them seeing how they only have 1 Battleship and a ****load of fighters. VD's plan for bombers could be a good one. It would limit the size of fleets because people would be dumping a bunch of resources into bomber construction to go after all the NPC factions in their space.
Also if the Order is introduced they should be given a first Strike capability. (seeing how everything they have cloaks hint Osiris hint hint) but The Nomads I think would have to be a Judge or something so they can add Random events every 5 turns or so. just to keep things spiced up.
-John
The only things I don't really agree with are the bombers and the system exploration. I like the idea of new systems, so factions with no systems under control can find them. Also, I like most of the ideas of bombers, but I think Revolutionary and Pirate factions should get them at the start without having to research and they would be stronger than the Houses' bombers.
Roc
P.S. Just wondering, was there any problems with my secret idea I posted before? I'm just curious at what I did wrong.
Roc
P.S. Just wondering, was there any problems with my secret idea I posted before? I'm just curious at what I did wrong.
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