Mostly that the houses have a major advantage in any of the games. I mean, if they want to utterly take everything out and tag team, there isn't anything anyone can do to stop them. Frankly, I feel it unfair. Give the corperations and criminal organizations something major to counter house advantages. Also, what about weapons platforms? That was one tactical device overlooked in this game.

Captain of the Kep Salu

Trekkie and proud of it!

the lines have been drawn, the war has been declared, now it's a matter of waiting for the dawn to break. (Said upon the beginning of the constrution of new BHG command center in the fate system, Guildmaster, no scratch that, President Richardson, head of the new Freeman's Republic.)

Edited by - richardson on 11/28/2004 12:30:51 PM

Here's something I posted in the OOC thread for CYOF 2 that I think is a good idea:

CAUTION: Heavy Reading Ahead (no, really, please read)

I had an idea that I think might help the RPG. It looks like a lot of the smaller faction get destroyed because the bigger factions can just come in with a huge navy and blow them and their bases to bits. In the game the reason factions such as the Liberty Rogues and the Unioners can live is because either the bigger factions have no clue where their bases are or does not want to enter the area because it is too dangerous (like the Badlands). So I was thinking, maybe we should have something where you need to actually find the bases and/or systems before you can attack them. So you can't have just started as Liberty then say "Destroy Padua Base with army." You have no clue where Padua is, so you wouldn't even know it's name, much less it's location. This could also open up a more secrative type of thing, so you could tell your allies were your bases and/or systems are or if you don't trust them, you could not. There could also be spies and covert agents to figure out where these bases are. I just think that might help so factions like the Liberty Rogues could stand a fighting chance against Liberty through secrety and stealth. So, say 10 Liberty cruisers go into the Badlands to find the Rogue base there. If the Rogues destroy the cruisers before they can get to one of their bases to report, then Liberty still doesn't know where the base is, even if the cruisers found it because they were destroyed before they could report. Also, if Liberty decided to play it safe and go into the Badlands with their full fleet or almost all of it, then the Rogues could send a small group to distract the fleet while the rest attack the relatively unprotected Liberty space. They would have to tell Liberty when they attack, of course, but because their fleet is in the Badlands and they couldn't send a signal that far, they would either have to send another wing to tell them or wait until they finish in the Badlands. I think that this may be able to help out the factions with a significant disadvantage compared to the larger factions. Here could be a basic turn:

Liberty Rogues Turn 3

6 Bases

0 Systems owned

Placement:
Place new small base
Place new 10 LF wings

Money:
50 credits ect.

Collect commodities:
9 food
14 h-fuel
5 metals
10 oxygen
19 water

Purchases:
5 HF wings

Trade:
None

Alliances:
CLASSIFIED

Ship stats:
Normal

Total:
90 credits
20 food
13 h-fuel
25 metals
12 oxygen
41 water

That would be a basic turn. Note that the Alliances would be classified so that spies and unknown alliances are possible. For instance, say the Liberty Rogues allied themselves with Liberty and is spying on the Outcasts. The Outcasts won't suspect anything because they don't know the Rogues allied because they did it in secret. The Rogues could even go past that and give Liberty fake info and spy on Liberty for the Outcasts. See all the possibilities? I know this make take a lot of effort but I will try to help in an way that I can.

Any comments/conflict/questions/other stuff that you have either post or
e-mail me at [email protected].

Roc

Another thing, have your systems fixed, but not let anyone have a clue where they are connected, as I have done with my new systems. This is a major advantage for the border world pirates, like the corsairs and outcasts, and it is also an advantage for the bhg, as we know every system out there, you see us everywhere....

Also, I've seen the rules for 2.1, no ground assault marines or crap like that. It adds a element of complication we don't need, and frankly, this one being so complicated, along with liberty and rhineland just marching along destroying everything has what has made this one a flop.

Also, maybe defensive line outposts, with much more firepower than normal. Also, the fighter shipyard thing in this version has not helped most factions. Scrap it and just make the vhfs built at capital shipyards, and hfs and lfs be capible of being built at any large station.

Yeah, the secret base thing ought to be good. Also, we need to factor in jumpholes. That's the only way to travel in the outer rim of sirus, really, and the hosues and most factions only know a few holes in the inner territories.

We also need a way for corperations to be better protected against the houses, to prevent what happened to ageira and the bhg. (I was wiped out by a plot, agiera was just plain wiped out, which is part of the reason why I got so disgusted with liberty, besides still attacking me when he said he withdrew his forces.) So, also, secret fleet movements, logged with the judge, but otherwise kept from the knowladge of the guy about to be assaulted, which if implemented this time, could make some major hectics when I get my shipyards up and running.

Say you wanted to sneak to new berlin and storm it, you would keep well away from the tradelanes, using the fields for cover, until you got in it's shadow. Then, you'd go full power straight up on it's docking gate, and hope you could make it through as a ship came down, and then take over the gate control so nobody could get in until you've taken over.

Thanks Richardson, I forgot to mention jump holes.

Certain factions know of some jumpholes like the Gaians would know of all jumpholes in Bretonia while Bretonia doesn't know of any, or ony 2 or 3. This would help because the other reason criminals can live is because they can escape through jump holes no one knows about. As with the bases, you could tell factions of the locations of jump holes or spy on them to give their jump hole locations to another faction. I think this would help along with my other big idea in this thread to give criminals a much bigger chance.

Roc

Think we should factor in a ship that lets you battle a capital ship and capture it. That would greatly help smaller coperations. I think you should also be able to steal ship, but make it only availibile to Pirate and Revolutionary factions.

It would be like this:

Me:I send 6 Wolfhound wings to New york to so try and steal one Battleship

Judge- 2 you succeed in stealing one Liberty battleship

OR

Judge- 8- you fail, all fighter wings sent to steal are destroyed

I think that would add a twist in.

I've read the 2.1 rules and I think the ground troops and speed stat are quite dumb.

Include the Order as a faction. Give it really good but expensive units.

Make a rule to keep overwhelming coalitions to be built, like the natural tendency for Bretonia and Liberty to ally from occuring. The problem with this and it wasn't only me, Outcasts it seems had this problem early also. Is there are no safeguards against everyone gaining up on an enemy who is way smaller. This may seem fun to those on top but it intensely frustrating to smaller groups. Reserving hegemony for the lucky 4 who pick first is unfair.


Add a new class of base called a faction HQ. Give these to the Blood Dragons, Bundusch, and the Order. Since these are pretty sizable factions with only one base, let this be used to construct say 10 fighter wings and 1 cap ship per turn as well as count as two large bases in terms of resources and income.

Allow for some character role-playing, for example allow more than one person to be in a faction. However, make a specific rule prohibiting that huge freelancer coalition from occuring. This is kind of to much like text based risk. Put the roleplaying back into it. Its worked other places, you just have to exercise GM powers, take someone aside and say, "look what your doing is bad for the game, stop." A good RPer will listen.

Pull a Nomad invasion out of nowhere when everyones at their weakest and they least expect it as a plot device. Don't answer this part if you think its a good idea though, keep everyone guessing.

Hmm,....if we have Nomads we have to have Order, and vice versa...

How about this: We use instinctive alliances. Therefore Liberty and Rhineland are automatically allied and unfriendly with Bretonia and Kusari, who are also automatically allied. The Corsairs are friendly with the Outcasts, the Hessians are friendly with Bundschu, All criminals will fight together against a house, and so forth. Junkers are allied with Rogues, Golden Chrysanthemums are allied with Hogosha, and both hate each other. Blood Dragons are allied with GC, Gaians, and Mollys, against Bretonia and Kusari.

All of these happen from the start of the game. Therefore every faction has a friends and enemies, and something to work with depending on how opposing factions are acting. (e.g. Rhineland will ally with the GMG if the GMG are fighting Kusari)

Edited by - [ACWilde on 11/28/2004 4:31:09 PM

I think the nomads and order bring far too many complications with them. Good ideas, though. Keep 'em coming.

Btw, and I know DSQrn won't be happy, but I am all for bringing RP back into the game. It was a much-needed element that #2 lacked. We just need to find a balance between CYOF 1 and CYOF 2.

Guys, just remember that we need to keep this simple. Many of you who are now suggesting these huge and complex ideas are the same people who were complaining about CYOF 2's rules being to complicated at the start of the game.

Also, Bret Bretonian has decided to be one of the new judges for #3.
Yay for Bret!!

what about wings of freelancers assaulting at random for factions? Mercanaries maybe, hire them a number is drawn, and depending on the number, it would determine the force type and general size and skill. Yeah, skill. For instance, criminal factions are gonna be a heck of a lot more skilled than house factions, and the bounty hunters are at least as good as the outcasts and corsairs.

Also, when transporting goods, a number is drawn to determine their luck, for instance, one number could sick on them several wings of marauders (Don't have to be specific) another could get them lost and never heard from again in some cosmic danger.

and the next should definately have the massively powerful coalition as a plot device.

Also, what they said, make it impossible for the houses to gang up on every one and allow at least some rp, maybe once every 3 turns or so, maybe a little bit longer in between, to explain your motivations for what you do, ect. Or, what about this:

the next rp be set in a completely new sector discovered by accident. As such, all the factions have scrambled to each get a base and system in this new territory, but then the way back closes, and the factions must duke it out starting each with only a small fleet of fighters and a single planet in an isolated system. It would take a litttle work, but it would even things out, and it would be a good plot device. Really, it's a great idea, and it stops most of the complaints of this rpg, and we get the occasional rp time to explain why our leaders act the way they do, the reason why everyone wants to kill each other in this new territory, and occasionaly have something happen that temporarily causes a cease fire.

It'd take a completely new map though, but it could be possible to get someone to draw up a strategic map. It'd be interesting to develop the myrad of systems it's gonna take, and maybe the ultimate purpose of the game would be to try and open the gate back, so that your faction could escape back home from the horrors of that new sector.


Edit: The next judge should not be allowed to have a faction for reasons of impartiality. He must be completely impartial. This is so that he will not be comprimised by having complete knowladge of all the secret bases, forces and systems there may be. It's gotta be done next time.


Edited by - richardson on 11/28/2004 5:17:49 PM

There will be two judges, so they can each do each other's battles and stuff.
Unless we go with the whole "secrets" thing, then that might change.

It's the only way to keep this game fair.

umm...this game is VERY fair, richardson. You're just bitter because Liberty attacked you at the behest of DSQrn.

Furthermore, secret bases I'm fine with, but entire systems? Sure, those are going to remain secret for very long. And secret messages won't work either, there would be spies intercepting them. If you want to say something to an ally, do it on MSN or by email.

Edit: You notice we lost a ton of players cos it took to long to post a turn with the new rules. Why don't we try the original except with a few extra guidelines to help us out? (I've got an idea...)

Edited by - [ACWilde on 11/28/2004 6:10:07 PM

Limit House systems is another possibility. This isn't a shot at you Jacob, but when one house controls all their systems, plus all of Tau and Omega and half of Omicron it makes competition really hard. Maybe say 10 systems is the most one can have.

I'll write up some Order and NOMAD rules if your permit me and then see what you think.

Btw, Jacob did you get my e-mail about a finale for CYOF II, for some reason I can't communicate with people here over e-mail unless they contact me first.

@Wilde - Systems actually could be secret, look how long it took the people in Freelancer to find the Unknown systems. And yes, secret messages would be sent through e-mail.