The only Wing Commander game I've played is 3, never played Privateer. I did play Elite II, can't remember what it was called (I used to have it on my Atari ST).
X-wing and Tie Fighter played also.

I don't really compare Freelancer to any of those because I don't see it as a space sim as such, I think it is in a league of its own in my opinion. Its definately a game for explorers though.

X2 looks promising but no idea when it'll be released. The idea of being in command of a whole fleet of craft acting as your wingmen sounds like a great idea.

I just sneezed.

FreeLancer is really a different type of game. There is no attemp to make it a simulation in conventional sense. The simulation lies in the creation of a dynamic universe and not at all in the control of ships themselves.

All the other games you mentioned were great space sims because they focused on trying to make you believe that you were a piloting a space ship. Ship controls were complicated and required some definitely learning curves.

In freelancer the idea is that the controls are designed to be as easy as possible to pick up with very little learning curve. It's meant to make you feel like a individual trying to survive in a large world where your ship is a tool for getting your jobs done. Now I personally like the control scheme and do find the battles quite entertaining and (especially later in the game) very difficult. Only X-Wing Alliance made piloting a ship with turrets as much fun.

You have to put aside Newtonian Physics and look at the game as pure entertainment before you'll really enjoy it. But when you do it's a heck of a treat.

Oon-tee-dee!

I've played a few space sims, here's how I would stack them up.

Wing Commander 2 - a lot of fun, pretty good mix of story and action, really cool for its time

X-Wing - loved this game. combination of the graphics and the ability to finally pilot around in the Star Wars universe. Hey, you even got to do the Death Star trench run.

Tie Fighter - even better than X Wing, really brought the whole package together and still one of my all-time favorite space sims.

X-Wing Alliance - really good, but somehow a bit of a letdown after tie fighter. never finished it, but it was fun to pilot Corellian transport ships (is that what the Milennium Falcon was?)

Starlancer - again, a lot of fun. pure dogfighting action where you just zip around with your cannons blazing, popping off almost a dozen kills per mission (maybe more). not really hardcore, but a great backstory combined with fast action. I liked it the same way I liked WC2, fun and arcade-y.

Privateer - so far my favorite space sim. this game felt like it had everything at the time. a million different ways to upgrade your ship, trading was fun, the game seemed to allow limitless play. flying through an asteroid belt was as tense as it got, especially when trying to escape overpowering foes while your ship fell apart. overall, this game is one of the few that really had it all

Privateer 2 - seemed ok in some ways, felt more like I was watching a movie in others (my biggest gripe with Roberts' brother games). Never finished this one, wasn't blown away but much of it... although I will say the visuals were top notch.

X:BTF - really good idea, mediocre execution. graphical glitches, seams between the star background textures... and while I understand the reasons not to include the time compression SETA drive right off the bat, it made for a painfully slow start. a truly dynamic economy makes trading an interesting prospect, as does the ability to own factories. People recommended that I skip this entirely and go right to X-Tension, was a pretty good recommendation.

X-Tension: the full realization of X:BTF. much harder to make money (at least in the beginning), an excellent dynamic economy, the ability to own and run your own virtual production line, from the factories to the transports to the defense ships. random missions (with some scripted ones as well) pop up here and there to keep things interesting, but weak overall in the story area. Of course most people don't play X games for the story.

Freelancer - so here were are. Essentially it could almost have been packaged in a bright yellow box with the title "Privateer for Dummies" on the front. Trading is sort of the same to Privateer, combat is fast and fun (and challenging), the story once again plays out like a so-so sci fi movie with cutscenes to constantly remind you that the Freelancer isn't the player, but Trent who you are forced to be (a lot of games do this, I realize, but it annoys me a little). One of the biggest game settings out there, so plenty to see. Seems to really be about exploring, and has some similarities to Morrowind. Both games require you to avoid temptation in order to get the most out of it. Apparently there are some extremely lucrative trade routes that get you the best fighter in a short time. If you choose you trading routes more for the experience of it or some other personal reason, might be more fun. Very good visuals, great mouse control scheme, setting feels very alive. Generally a lot of fun, but might not be one for the ages in its current state.

woah, I was hopping for a bit of feedback, but I must say, you have all been very generous indeed

Thx very much, I enjoyed the reading so far, and I've already a better idea of the space sims & their differences! As I've just started playing Freelancer , I am planning to take my time & enjoy the opportunity for all the "side-bar" projects available within Freelancer'S game world

Keep it coming!

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I've played a lot of space sims; WC series, Freelancer, Bridge Commander, Freespace, and Battlecruiser Millenium. Havne't tried SL yet, but am looking for a copy. Any ideas as to where I could obtain a copy??

Also, I've noticed that it looks like I'm the only person who was dumb enough to buy Battlecruiser Millenium. Anyone else buy it or is it just me??

Aside from any explicit modeling of physics, which might validate a sub-genre of space sims (consider that Wing Commander and the X-Wing series don't model realistic physics, and you will be quite ridiculous to state that they're not space sims), Freelancer is easily validated as a space sim of the non-realistic physics variety. There is nothing requiring such a space sim to utilize a joystick or other conventions of space sims in the name of realism , because frankly the way combat works in practically any space sim, realistic physics or no, will be a wildly inaccurate interpretation of what space combat in the future would actually be like, if such a thing ever goes on in humanity's future. These conventions that we're used to are simply borrowed from those of the atmospheric flight sim, and their use in a space sim gives it no special claim to being more realistic than Freelancer is.

About the only thing that I think separates a space sim from, say an arcadey game set in space, is the extent to which the game asks you to do something else in your spaceship besides point and shoot, and Freelancer asks you to do a lot more in your spaceship than that.

Freelancer vs. the rest? There is competition?

Freelancer is one-of-a-kind and there is nothing made less than at least five years ago that compares in terms of size, depth, and/or fun.

Regrettably, I never played the Privateer games but this brings to mind Tradewars, except with something to look at besides ACSII art, very basic combat, and messages stating that the damned cheaters have destroyed your planet again. Freelancer is good even among modern games for being in development for so long

Freelancer could be deeper (maybe should be, but it's fun now at least) but it's definately good enough for me.

I've played a few space fighter sims.

X-wing cd collectors edition - the most challenging game. Sure it doesn't have the ship types of Tie Fighter, or the great story. But It requires tactics out the wazoo to succeeed at any of the later missions.

Tie Fighter - Simply awesome in terms of story and graphics.

Xwing Vs Tie Fighter - Who wants to see home 1 sent burning into the sun....

Xwing alliance - I LOVE THIS GAME. It requires the tactics of xwing, and has the beauty of tie fighter, and an immersive story line

Freespace, the great war. Picked it up on the value rack. Quite a fun diversion.

after x wing alliance... I haven't seen any reaalllly must have space sims. Then I read a preview of freelancer, pre ordered it and discovered on delivery day what I was expecting came from a two year old preview, and that many of the exciting features had vanished. Its not a bad game, but I believe my expectations skewered my view, so I can't make any fair comments about the game

First space sim I played was X-Wing (XW), loved it like nothing else, I still fire it up occasionally.

TIE Fighter (TF) Perhaps the best space sim ever. Period.

X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter (XvT) just wasn't that great, the only real graphical improvement over TF was that it included textures

X-Wing Alliance: Great game, almost as great as TF, and much better looking, especially when you use the XWA Upgrade ships.

Freespace: Lots of fun, but I got stuck on a mission about 2/3 of the way through, and then started playing Jedi Knight II.

Freespace 2: Only played the demo, and have sadly never been able to find it in a store.

Tachyon: The Fringe: Bought it a week ago in the bargain bin, and am enjoying the heck out of it in between long runs of Freelancer.

Freelancer: "I can quit anytime" (same thing smokers say) pretty much sums it up. Even though it's not the perfect game I was hoping for, and there's some severe variety and balance issues, the sheer size and replayability of it has me totally addicted. If a patch, expansion, mod or even sequel is released to fix these issues, I may very well disappear off the face of the earth

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world:
those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Howdy,

I keep seeing people making references to "X-BTF", "X-Tension", "X-Gold", and "X2".

Well, my curiosity finally got the better of me, I was bored, so I went to their site to see what all the talk was about.

Unfortunately I didn't get many answer.
They do say a lot about how "this" is improved from the older versions and such.
But, they have NO information about WHAT the older version actually were!

So, what the heck WAS "X-Beyond the Frontier" about anyway?
I think I know the minor things...you srta out poor, trade to make money, build a factory if you want. But, is that it?
Is/was there multiplayer in X-BTF, X-Tension, X-Gold? I see that X2 is supposed to have it.
I found a place locally to get X-Gold for $5, but don't know if it is even worth it...I usually only play online games.
I just can't seem to find any reall reviews of the game, and it's features anywhere. *grumble*

I figure that if I got X-Gold it may give me something to do while waiting for the hopefully soon-to-come patches needed to make FreeLancer viable to play online.

Thanks for your time.

Later,

Dredd

Ok youngin's, move aside... =)

Wing Commander 1-I still play it to this day. The mission tree was the BEST tree for any space sim. Even WC 2's tree was not as great. When this gem came out back in 1990, it blew everything out of the water. Your actions decided the mission tree and cinematic cut scenes were introduced to the genre and computer gamers around the world.

Wing Commander 2-So much story was added to the WC universe with this title, its not even funny. I was hooked on the series after this one. The game really got you into hating the Kilrathi. And at the end, you are vindicated from Tolwyn's accusations and you really feel like you made a difference while tinkering around with your computer. =)

X-Wing-Very fun at first, just because it was Star Wars. But not as good as Wing Commander because they made you do every mission no matter what. And those missions were too tough for the average person to beat. I finally got the CD special edition that had the difficulty setting put in. I finally beat it with easy setting. It was gratifying to blow up the Death Star. Overall, the missions were a bit more in depth then Wing Commander's (container scanning, convoy bombing etc.)

Wing Commander 3-I actually bought a brand new Pentium 100 when this title came out because my 386 couldn't handle it! This was my first experience with FMV in a computer game. It was done nicely and it was pure genius on Chris Robert's part to cast Mark Hamill as the main character. Plus, you got to score with Ginger Lynn Allen (if you made the right decisions) and blow up Kilrah ending the war that you had been involved in since 1990! All in a day's work.

Tie Fighter-Very cool game! The addition of secondary missions requirements was great. The Emperor's Secret Order was a great touch to the game. Missions were deep and diverse. Still suffered from the "must beat it before you can move on" ideal that X-Wing had. But at least these missions weren't impossible and were very fun to play...even the training grounds!

Wing Commander: Privateer-I still think this is the best space trading game ever. If FL can overcome the non-diversity in missions and make ship upgrades more diverse, then it will surpass this title. Other then that, Privateer had it all...political intrigue, seamy drug and slave trading, and wrapping it up by saving the Gemini Sector from a mysterious alien drone and the Kilrathi.

Wing Commander 4-The culmination of FMV in computer gaming (done right, mind you). Because of its movie like quality and great acting on the parts of Mark Hamill and Malcolm McDowell, this one keeps you on the edge of your seat like no other. Oh and Todd Wilson (the guy who plays Biff from Back to the Future) gets funnier and funnier with each new WC!

Privateer 2-One word for this title...SUCKED. Erin Robert's made a mockery of the Privateer name. Not very fun and missions were set up terribly. Plus, Erin decided to take it out of the Wing Commander universe (had no idea what he was thinking).

FreeSpace 1-Whoa! Check out the size of those capships! I think this was the first time I was enthralled with piloting my ship around a capital ship. It was about time a developer decided to do the capships justice. Their presence always loomed over you as you flew your missions. Average mission design, but a good story none the less.

FreeSpace 2-A real battle, finally! This game actually had large naval battles with hundreds of ships flying around firing at you ala the Battle of Endor. Capital Ships got even bigger (which I didn't think was possible) from the first FreeSpace. Intriguing story line with those unknown aliens popping into the middle of space. When is FreeSpace 3 going to come out? I want to know what happens!

Wing Commander 5- No more Mark Hamill as the main character, but a return to the great mission tree that WC 1 had. Also used many aspects from the FreeSpace series with big capital ships and gigantic battles! Plus, the Kilrathi ally with the Terrans! This was the last WC to come out...I will do the dance of joy if Wing Commander 6 is announced.

StarLancer-I got this whet my appetite for Freelancer. It was a great game! It might have the best dogfighting in space ever! Story was great, but I don't expect anything less from Chris Roberts. This one was easier to grasp since it involved humanity and not aliens. Great game!

Freelancer-Last but not least, our current space sim big boy. What can I say? In some ways it is not as good as Privateer 1. In other ways, it is a lot better (exploring, number of factions, the sheer size of it all). It has recaptured some of the magic I felt back in 1993 when I landed on New Detroit and obtained that alien artifact from Sandovel (Priv 1). The story is great and I want more. Very glad that a worthy heir to the WC/Privateer throne has stepped up in current times...the magic is back!

SumerNivek
Killer of Khaja the Fang
Privateer Extrodanaire

Edited by - SumerNivek on 11-03-2003 03:10:06

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Privateer 2-One word for this title...SUCKED. Erin Robert's made a mockery of the Privateer name. Not very fun and missions were set up terribly. Plus, Erin decided to take it out of the Wing Commander universe (had no idea what he was thinking).

---

Just wanted to say this in defense of Erin Roberts:

Privateer 2 and The Darkening were originally meant to be separate games (fond memories of Computer Games Strategy Plus magazine...). You can chalk it up to EA and their decision to burn all continuations of the Wing Commander franchise as to why The Darkening became christened Privateer 2: The Darkening, and the actual Privateer 2 got scrapped. There was also a Privateer 3 in the works, and Privateer Online was also being talked about, but EA gutted Origin until there was no one except the folks who now work on Ultima Online (if you remember, there was a 3-D Ultima Online in development, and was pretty far along but then just got scrapped).

There is little hope now that the Wing Commander franchise will come back from the dead, unless Digital Anvil's hard work on Freelancer revives the space sim genre and EA decides "Oh, well now there's a market for this stuff again."

Truthfully, I think the Wing Commander series should be put to rest, particularly from an FMV standpoint (UNLESS Chris Roberts is at the helm). However, I would love to see the Privateer series go on.... I really love Freelancer, but I'm still very much attached to the Gemini Sector.

God...honestly, can you imagine what the world would've been like if Privateers 2 and 3 had actually become a reality? EA has earned nothing but my hatred. I refuse to buy any game they publish, no matter how good.

Edited by - Bhurak Starkiller on 11-03-2003 03:24:28

I first played privateer when I was ten or eleven years old. I played the game constantly for at least 3 years until I couldn't get my new computer to play it. While freelancer has come closer than anything else to taking the place of privateer, it has sadly fallen short. They really need to make it truly openended. Random wars and treaties should happen, the economy should rise and fall, you should have the choice to join factions. And yes it would still be called freelancer because I would leave the faction as soon as I would get sick of them. Borders would change as the major(or minor) factions took over bases.


That's what i expected of this game, and unfortunately it fell short. I don't know if there is anybody else that would like to see the same thing, but if you do I would suggest emailing microsoft. If we get enough people, who knows.


But other than privateer and the WC series, I think freelancer is pretty damn good

Bhurak,

Thanks, I always thought that it was Erin Roberts who decided to take it out of the Wing Commander Universe. I for one, think the WC franchise should go on IF they can get truely back to the roots of WC 1 and 2. Plus, aren't those new aliens still around? I want to know what happens to the Kilrathi and the Terrans! =)

Yep, I remember Privateer 3 and Privateer Online being announced. I was overjoyed because they were going to put it back in the Wing Commander Universe. Screw EA and their razing of Origin. Yep, I know, they even scrapped Ultima Online 2. And now, I don't think Privateer Online will ever happen because who wants to compete against Star Wars Galaxies?

SumerNivek
Killer of Khaja the Fang
Privateer Extrodanaire