I'm glad that DA released a demo, that should deal with the 'how well will it work on my system' reason for warez.

I'm not glad that MS are delaying the UK release, that will cause a lot of people to get illegal US copies.

Trying warez before buying seems a good idea in theory, but in practise it's actually quite bad, allow me to explain:

When you download warez, you are supporting the site/organisation/person who provides it. This gives them insentive to carry on supplying warez and obtaining new games etc. No matter how good you think you are, there will always be people tempted to use warez instead of buying the game. The only way to get them to buy the game is if the warez isn't available in the first place. But the more people that d/load warez to try the game first etc, the more likely someone will try and get hold of or supply the warez in the first place.

So if you don't support warez, and instead report them, there will be less and less places that get hold of games. This would mean that more people would pay the devs for the cool games. This would have 2 effects. 1) Games would be cheaper and 2) there'd be more games that we liked!

Games would be cheaper? The price of games would not drop at all, especially in today's industry.

Edited by - kENDON on 27-02-2003 14:21:36

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When you download warez, you are supporting the site/organisation/person who provides it.

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Granted, you show that there is an interest in warez but on the other hand you do not provide the host with an income.

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No matter how good you think you are, there will always be people tempted to use warez instead of buying the game.

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That's their personal choice. Just as you choose to do any other set of illegal things. Whether you consider them petty or not - they are still illegal. And once again, it's up to you to go with the concensus that has setup the law system and abide to that or not.

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So if you don't support warez, and instead report them, there will be less and less places that get hold of games.

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Actually, by reporting it you give the people that hosted it a rush that someone is after them and they're doing the illegal thing - it makes them far more important than just d/linig the files. After all, there is no economic gain from simply hosting warez.

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1) Games would be cheaper and
2) there'd be more games that we liked!

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Alas, the current economic model that publishers follow in all forms of entertainment isn't adopted solely because they are being "exploited" and are "underearning" - I suggest you read a very well documented and written article on the matters of game publishing/distribution, found here: http://www.the-underdogs.org/scratch.php

As for 2) - I don't think there is any programmer out there that wants to make a game and then suddenly stops and says "hey - I'm not making this game - it'll be pirated!". There are millions of game titles out there.

kENDON, I am not a moderator - but it would delight me if you please didn't use phrases that could be interpretted as direct personal attacks to someone.

Actually most cracking groups did not care much about their customers. So they would still create warze versions that can be found in the deep worlds of irc ^_^

they do it as kinda a sport, try to get an release faster than the other groups, showing of their leet coding skills
most of those groups, support a kinda fair use of their versions, so if you like it buy it is there moto


and most normal warze user will never meet one of those crackers, so the real problem is that ppl that host sites and servers to publish those versions to a broad public, and well, since some years aswell services like kazaa or emule, which make nearly every software on the plante accesible withhin a few hours for everyone.
(which is damn practical cause you get software that way even faster than you can buying, but this cause real money loses, cause it is so easy and avaible to really everyone, including the ppl that do not want to spend any money on software, which is the real source of money loses for the software companys, student john doe, that has no money to buy, will make them lose anything, cause he has anyway no money )

I've had this discussion with the European MS guys... I also think that they loose on trying to look at the games market in regions. We are not talking DV'D's or other protected stuff here!

I'll bring it up again with the guys who deal with the release schedule issue!

Best Regards
Christian "Bargib" Koerner
Editor in Chief, The Lancers Reactor

Usually people that download and play warez wouldn't buy the game anyway, so the company loses nothing.
On the other hand, Warez are sometimes used by people instead of the demos (which aren't always out before the final release [check Diablo 2 and Neverwinter Nights). Since Warez is considered a crime (which doesn't [directly harms you so it would be wrong to report) it will always be there, no matter what happens. "There are no uncrackable games."
Still I am surprised FL comes without CD key! It's like having a message on the box saying "Warez me!". I wonder why they did it...

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Bazil, M. P.
Webmaster and founder of Roughnecks -Freelancer Division
"If you would care to follow me... " -- DEATH of the Discworld

Don't worry - I don't see it as a personal attack, just a fair point.

@ Bargib

about the warezers (your first posting in this thread):

That´s where you´re wrong. Here are some titles I bought after playing an otherwise obtained version of them:

System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Haegemonia, Soldiers Of Anarchy, Mafia, Port Royale, Die Gilde, Homeworld, Warcraft 3

This evening, I´m going to order two more titles which I downloaded first: Master Of Orion 3 and FreeLancer.

I could scan the CDs, boxes, manuals, etc. and mail them to you if you want proof.

Well i might get kicked or shouted at but... here goes.

I have the full version of the game its not legal. in fact its a warezd copy. I got it from a friend. before i share my opinions on the game i would like to point out before you all call me scum, i dont go in search of warez, i dont have a mass news group search going for warez everyday ( like my friends) - I used to work for a games company and understand EXACTLY how warez hurts games producers and also (some might not belive it) but how it helps them (there are 2 main plus points but they only apply in certain situations).

I have the game preordered and will be keeping the order - in fact looking forward to getting the released build of the game (manuals and all)

I have been waiting for this game for 5 years or so, so when a mate comes around with the copy for me i tried to resist .... but i could'nt... having just hit the lvl cap on the demo i grabbed it and installed it i since have compleatly fallen in love with it.

One thing i have heard people say is that people who warez games oftern dont buy them i dont know if this is true or not but i would like to point out that.....
If you dont buy the game, and your interested in the mulitplayer then when a new patch comes out your prolly gonna have to wait for a new crack. and it might not work. buy the game its worth it !

as a X beyond the frontier player i really want to share my Freelancer opinions (and they are all good - i might add ) with you all but this is not the thread for it. i will post in a proper thread.

thought i would add my 2 pence to people who wareez games, my opinion is if they are wrong i know i am a hopcrit in this case but hey.... i am human. IE Fallable.


Solo

I don't say that some actually have the morals... but in the small, and statistically un-representative enviroment I see, two out of three who play a warezed game for over 20 hours and pressed on the issue on when they will buy the legal version, they say either:

A.) the game sucks (why would they spend 20 hours plus with something that annoys you?)
B.) I've got to wait 'till next month, because I'm out of money (just to never buy the final version)
C.) Some other lame excuse...

Sorry I feel this way, but I'm honostly convinced that this is how it is for most warez'ers...

Best Regards
Christian "Bargib" Koerner
Editor in Chief, The Lancers Reactor

My confession:

I downloaded the full version .. Trial versions of games have always been less than revealing to me .. they tend to try to put their best foot forward in trial versions.. kind of like movie spoilers, then in some cases, the demos just flat out suck and don't represent the game well at all.

Second confession:

A day after checking out the full version, I purchased my pre-ordered copy through amazon .. had I not liked it, I would have deleted it and not purchased it.

Some people use Warez to just steal .. others use it to sample the full thing, like test driving a car.. They don't put you in a simulator, they give you the keys and let you drive the real thing if you like it you buy it..

Shame not everyone is honest..

Ok, time for my confession.
Once when I was in 2nd grade I spat in my teacher's coffee mug when she wasn't looking. There... off my chest...

How could you do that? That's disgusting and immoral! :p

Seriously, this community seems to have a fairly relaxed view. The Morrowind community I post in and helped moderate an IRC channel for had a very strict policy - if you warez morrowind, you weren't part of the community and were therefore banned.

Don't mean to suggest that at all here by the way! We just fed up of people askng us silly questions that were answered in the manual, then discovering they asked them because they didn't have the manual. Grrr.

Edited by - kalniel on 27-02-2003 16:41:10