Max Steele
I played X-beyond the Frontier and enjoyed it. But the complexity of that game versus Privateer and Freelancer is like comparing a monkey's brain with a human's! I am sure the game will sell well enough for DA to release patches along the way. So..make your report of the bugs here and to the support page at the Officail Freelancer website. But...I for one am glad DA did not hold this game up to fix what is to me minor bugs.
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dynamic traffic not so dynamic?
This is a free discussion forum on Freelancer. This is the place to discuss Freelancer issues NOT covered by the other boards!
54 posts
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Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:56 am
No, I'm not going to ignore Stinger's post. Yes, I understand that the commodities are static.
If one of the features of the game wasn't an "alive universe", then this wouldn't be as big of a deal. The issue I'm having is with the dynamic traffic system. There is the ability to hail craft, and they tell you where they're coming from, where they're going, and what they're doing.
If I hail a transport, and he says he's going to a station to sell water, and I scan him, he has water. After he docks, and I hail him again, he says he's going back to his planet to get more water. I target him, and he STILL has the water in his hold. The game is having him dock at the station. Hell, his lights even turn red signalling that he's docked. At this point, all that is needed is a bit of code to remove the water from his hold. Then when he goes back to his home planet, after he lands there, the game puts water back in his hold. Does the game keep track of the credits he's getting / using? No. That's ok. Is the game keeping track of how much water? No. That's ok.
What is the point of having the hail feature if it's not going to give you correct information? All of the variables have been given speech, and it's great that it's there. But it's not working.
So I'll just leave it with this. It's a bug in the dynamic traffic system. I'll try to post some type of email or something on the Freelancer Support area (if such a place exists), and see if anything is done about it.
If one of the features of the game wasn't an "alive universe", then this wouldn't be as big of a deal. The issue I'm having is with the dynamic traffic system. There is the ability to hail craft, and they tell you where they're coming from, where they're going, and what they're doing.
If I hail a transport, and he says he's going to a station to sell water, and I scan him, he has water. After he docks, and I hail him again, he says he's going back to his planet to get more water. I target him, and he STILL has the water in his hold. The game is having him dock at the station. Hell, his lights even turn red signalling that he's docked. At this point, all that is needed is a bit of code to remove the water from his hold. Then when he goes back to his home planet, after he lands there, the game puts water back in his hold. Does the game keep track of the credits he's getting / using? No. That's ok. Is the game keeping track of how much water? No. That's ok.
What is the point of having the hail feature if it's not going to give you correct information? All of the variables have been given speech, and it's great that it's there. But it's not working.
So I'll just leave it with this. It's a bug in the dynamic traffic system. I'll try to post some type of email or something on the Freelancer Support area (if such a place exists), and see if anything is done about it.
Mon Feb 24, 2003 3:43 am
What is the point of having the hail feature if it's not going to give you correct information?
Again, in the context your speaking of I have a simple question. How do you know it's the same ship? Same name of the pilot? You didn't mention this fact, that's why I ask.
Now, why did I post that quote above? Because my friend, that statement tells me you haven't even broken the surface on this game and how it plays. How can I say something as profound as that you ask? Simple...numerous hours of playing experience have taught me to pay attention to the hails because sometimes that's the only way to find some things in MP. I spent 3 hours one day looking over the entire system for the home base of a certain faction that kicked my ass. It was that very 3 hr experience that lead me to their lair when I fixed my rep, hailed a few of them until I found one that was actually going back to their base. Bingo, form up, put on the cruise control and they took me right there. It seems I had not even thought of going into this remote part of the system because ther were no patrol paths leading that direction and there was nothing out there...but this base. I woulkd have never found it if I hadn't paid attn to the hails!
Yup, I think hailing works in certina situations, you just have to comprehend what's rubbish and what isn't.
Yup, getting pretty tired of people say this game is watered down, a disappointment, whatever....these sort of posts tell me one thing...you have no patience and it bothers me a bit when I know what I know from playing all these months and see people post "facts" that are simply untrue. I'm not looking for some justification for spending the last 1/2 year testing, retesting, breaking, rebreaking, exploring, reexploring when we where thrown a curve ball by the Devs...I'm saying there are simply too many things..too much content to this game to be "reviewed" in a weekends worth of playing. Give me a break. Other than the "pilgrim" (there's that reference again) and myself, I have my doubts that anyone has seen everything in Freelancer yet. In fact I know I haven't....the "pilgrim" maybe..wouldn't put it past him
(off the soapbox)
Rob "Stinger" Lordier
Moderator/Comp Tech Lancers Reactor
Creator Privateer FAQ Competition doesn't create character, it REVEALS it!
Mon Feb 24, 2003 4:34 am
This complaining about pirating and .... still can't help LMAO... HAILING IT... hehehe... If you been pirating for very long, hailing it AIN'T even an option. If you are pirating at somewhere like Raiden bend on Kusari Shipping and keeping the gates shut, only your enemies shoot at you. Until you shoot your first transport. Then the sky becomes quite red indeed. If stays that way until you land somewhere, or fix your rep with a faction that you just pushed over to red. Go kill some Xeno's to fix a problem w/ anyone. Everyone hates Xenos. Only time I hail stuff to find out where its been/going is when looking for undiscovered JH's or bases. Such a MINOR bug isn't worth complaining about. However, something like the Lieden Base Group Docking Bug is. (see technical forum).
Mon Feb 24, 2003 5:00 am
How do I know it's the same ship? Because I target it. I follow it.
Forget about the piracy. I target a ship. I fly up next to it. It's in front of me. I hail it, it says it's (X) Transporter, coming from PIttsburgh, hauling water to Baltimore Shipyard. I scan it, and it has 399,999 and 400,000 water in its inventory. I follow it in the same sector... Not going through a trade lane. This transport just came into the sector I'm already in. It's going to a station that's in the sector I'm in now. It goes to Baltimore Shipyard and docks. The red lights come on underneath the ship showing that it's docked (I assume). Afterwards, those red lights go back to white, and the transport pulls away from the station. I hail it again, and this time it says it's (X) Transporter (same one) , coming from Baltimore Shipyard, going to Pittsburgh to procure water. I scan it, and it STILL has 399,999 and 400,000 water in its hold. Then it leaves the sector and goes to Pittsburgh. It's the same ship the whole time.
It doesn't matter how much of the game I play. It doesn't matter how far into the game I am. I have sat in the same sector and ran this test on at least 10 different transports coming into the sector. If it says it's hauling cargo, docks, and then says it's going to go get more, it still has the cargo in its hold. If it says it's coming in to get cargo, docks, and then says it's going to go sell it somewhere else, it has nothing in its hold.
It really doesn't matter to me how much you tested and re-tested the game. Did you check what I'm describing now? Are you seeing this when you're playing now? Perhaps you didn't think to check this out. Maybe you don't care. I don't know. All I know is that if DA is going to go through the trouble of putting this dynamic chatter and traffic system in, they should be consistent. If a transport docks and says he's bringing water to a station, he should empty his hold of the water. If the transport says he's now going back to a planet to pick up more water, he shouldn't STILL have the water in his hold. This is the issue at hand.
Not once did I say the game is a disappointment, and that it's watered down. If a game is going to be a dynamic universe, then something like this is a major bug. You want to shut me up about this? Get a word from the developers about this issue and let me know what they have to say about it.
And Ali_Bubba, just because you "hardly" do something, doesn't mean it's not a bug. This game is meant to be played differently by different people. What is a minor bug or "glitch" to one person is a big deal to another.
Edited by - Max Steele on 24-02-2003 05:10:22
Forget about the piracy. I target a ship. I fly up next to it. It's in front of me. I hail it, it says it's (X) Transporter, coming from PIttsburgh, hauling water to Baltimore Shipyard. I scan it, and it has 399,999 and 400,000 water in its inventory. I follow it in the same sector... Not going through a trade lane. This transport just came into the sector I'm already in. It's going to a station that's in the sector I'm in now. It goes to Baltimore Shipyard and docks. The red lights come on underneath the ship showing that it's docked (I assume). Afterwards, those red lights go back to white, and the transport pulls away from the station. I hail it again, and this time it says it's (X) Transporter (same one) , coming from Baltimore Shipyard, going to Pittsburgh to procure water. I scan it, and it STILL has 399,999 and 400,000 water in its hold. Then it leaves the sector and goes to Pittsburgh. It's the same ship the whole time.
It doesn't matter how much of the game I play. It doesn't matter how far into the game I am. I have sat in the same sector and ran this test on at least 10 different transports coming into the sector. If it says it's hauling cargo, docks, and then says it's going to go get more, it still has the cargo in its hold. If it says it's coming in to get cargo, docks, and then says it's going to go sell it somewhere else, it has nothing in its hold.
It really doesn't matter to me how much you tested and re-tested the game. Did you check what I'm describing now? Are you seeing this when you're playing now? Perhaps you didn't think to check this out. Maybe you don't care. I don't know. All I know is that if DA is going to go through the trouble of putting this dynamic chatter and traffic system in, they should be consistent. If a transport docks and says he's bringing water to a station, he should empty his hold of the water. If the transport says he's now going back to a planet to pick up more water, he shouldn't STILL have the water in his hold. This is the issue at hand.
Not once did I say the game is a disappointment, and that it's watered down. If a game is going to be a dynamic universe, then something like this is a major bug. You want to shut me up about this? Get a word from the developers about this issue and let me know what they have to say about it.
And Ali_Bubba, just because you "hardly" do something, doesn't mean it's not a bug. This game is meant to be played differently by different people. What is a minor bug or "glitch" to one person is a big deal to another.
Edited by - Max Steele on 24-02-2003 05:10:22
Mon Feb 24, 2003 5:23 am
Max, this really is just inane. I'm not telling you to shutup about it or anything, I just don't see why a bug complaint turns into this huge critical turning point on which Freelancer's entire legitimacy rests. It's like finding out Santa Claus doesn't exist, and deciding gift-giving no longer has any place at Christmas time (or whatever the appropriate analogy is if you don't celebrate it at all).
I'd like to see DA fix the bug. But seriously, what with the fuss? Freelancer isn't about following ships around and checking to see if they really sold their cargo like they said they would. Yes, it's supposed to have a 'dynamic universe', but as Stinger pointed out (which you seemed to ignore...not like I didn't warn you), the reputation system alone makes Freelancer a dynamic universe. And there are a number of other levels on which one can conclude that Freelancer is dynamic. Why are you singling out this one aspect as so utterly critical?
Freelancer is about what you do, not what NPCs do. All games of this type are ultimately an illusion, and this particular detail you're harping on is but a minor part of that illusion, one that nobody is going to pay attention to or care much about if they're actually playing the game to play it, not to analyze it. Unless you only play this game just to spy on NPCs, which is just weird.
I'd like to see DA fix the bug. But seriously, what with the fuss? Freelancer isn't about following ships around and checking to see if they really sold their cargo like they said they would. Yes, it's supposed to have a 'dynamic universe', but as Stinger pointed out (which you seemed to ignore...not like I didn't warn you), the reputation system alone makes Freelancer a dynamic universe. And there are a number of other levels on which one can conclude that Freelancer is dynamic. Why are you singling out this one aspect as so utterly critical?
Freelancer is about what you do, not what NPCs do. All games of this type are ultimately an illusion, and this particular detail you're harping on is but a minor part of that illusion, one that nobody is going to pay attention to or care much about if they're actually playing the game to play it, not to analyze it. Unless you only play this game just to spy on NPCs, which is just weird.
Mon Feb 24, 2003 5:31 am
No, I don't want to to shut up about something you saw in the game. Maybe I'm just splitting hairs but when you jump up on a mountain top and scream over and over again:
I want to point out this is only your opinion whereas in my opinion it IS a dynamic universe because of the way the factions and just about every single NPC you run into can be affected by your actions while within the game. Haven't you gone into a bar yet and see an NPC with a little empty baloon over their head and click on them?!? How would they even know about your reputation if the universe wasn't dynamic revolving around you at all times?? I believe that is much more of a litmus test than your story of 1 or 10 transports that you hail. Major bug? Hardly. Quirk, okay I'll give you that but not a show stopper in my book. I guess it all boils down to our own interpretation of what a dynamic universe really is huh?
Edited by - Stinger on 24-02-2003 05:33:47
Maybe I'm just splitting hairs but when you jump up on a mountain top and scream over and over again:
If a game is going to be a dynamic universe, then something like this is a major bug.
I want to point out this is only your opinion whereas in my opinion it IS a dynamic universe because of the way the factions and just about every single NPC you run into can be affected by your actions while within the game. Haven't you gone into a bar yet and see an NPC with a little empty baloon over their head and click on them?!? How would they even know about your reputation if the universe wasn't dynamic revolving around you at all times?? I believe that is much more of a litmus test than your story of 1 or 10 transports that you hail. Major bug? Hardly. Quirk, okay I'll give you that but not a show stopper in my book. I guess it all boils down to our own interpretation of what a dynamic universe really is huh?
Edited by - Stinger on 24-02-2003 05:33:47
Mon Feb 24, 2003 6:13 am
What did I tell you about the plague?
*looks around, baffled*
What're ya standin' around for?!?! We're being infiltrated, destroy the infection!
*turns off Aliens vs. Predator 2*
Noticed all the negative "reviews" that don't make sense? Anyone who likes the game and doesn't obsess over every little flaw in an attempt to destroy it utterly is a fanatic to them.
Ignore and eliminate.
You don't have to hunt them; they'll come to you.
(check the sig, I've got my flamethrowers armed)
And about this problem here, I can't really comment, since I only have the demo. However, just wait for them to fix it! If this is so major, the mistake will be rectified.
Oh, yeah. Don't try that whining about waiting on us; we know A LOT about waiting.
I've now blown all my anger into the post. (Lousy FE with its AVs all the time)
Closing Statement:
CALM DOWN
I do what I must, when I must...
*looks around, baffled*
What're ya standin' around for?!?! We're being infiltrated, destroy the infection!
*turns off Aliens vs. Predator 2*
Noticed all the negative "reviews" that don't make sense? Anyone who likes the game and doesn't obsess over every little flaw in an attempt to destroy it utterly is a fanatic to them.
Ignore and eliminate.
You don't have to hunt them; they'll come to you.
(check the sig, I've got my flamethrowers armed)
And about this problem here, I can't really comment, since I only have the demo. However, just wait for them to fix it! If this is so major, the mistake will be rectified.
Oh, yeah. Don't try that whining about waiting on us; we know A LOT about waiting.
I've now blown all my anger into the post. (Lousy FE with its AVs all the time)
Closing Statement:
CALM DOWN
I do what I must, when I must...
Mon Feb 24, 2003 6:33 am
Max really has a point here and i don't know why you jump on him with this sort of arrogant "first spend as many hours with this game as i did and learn everything in order to earn the right to point out bugs"-attitude. You just keep telling him that the Freelancer universe is indeed dynamic even though he doesn't complain about this fact anymore but only about this minor/major bug which he demands to be fixed. Further did you point out another way to use the hailing system which has absolutely nothing to do with the this issue. In conclusion i might add that i would like to see this bug fixed all the same, even though it might no be a big deal and i would really appreciate if you guys woudn't rip my head off for that. 
You know Lev, I think you're giving me a bad "rap" here. Calling me arrogant? I think before you do that remember I have feelings too. Are you sure you know the definitiion of the word? I have consistently referred to specific information and come up with some examples of my own to refute...yet when the rebuttal comes there is zero mentioning of my points...nada. I think my points are being completly ignored by Max but does anyone say he's being arrogant for ignoring my points?? No, you jump on me for begin arrogant because you want the same as Max. Now you tell me who's being arrogant here, myself because I mention I've got some credentials backing up my opinions, or the other person who refuses to even acknowledge I'm even involved in he conversation here? Max's conversation is all about "him." At least I acknowledge his points exist.
Stop biting my head off for having a different opinion...that knife cuts both way Lev.
-------------
"In all likelihood you're going to die out there. We're all going to die out there, but none of us needs to be reminded of that fact. So you die, you never existed." - Lt. Cmdr. 'Angel' Devereaux
Edited by - Stinger on 24-02-2003 12:53:53
You know Lev, I think you're giving me a bad "rap" here. Calling me arrogant? I think before you do that remember I have feelings too. Are you sure you know the definitiion of the word? I have consistently referred to specific information and come up with some examples of my own to refute...yet when the rebuttal comes there is zero mentioning of my points...nada. I think my points are being completly ignored by Max but does anyone say he's being arrogant for ignoring my points?? No, you jump on me for begin arrogant because you want the same as Max. Now you tell me who's being arrogant here, myself because I mention I've got some credentials backing up my opinions, or the other person who refuses to even acknowledge I'm even involved in he conversation here? Max's conversation is all about "him." At least I acknowledge his points exist.
Stop biting my head off for having a different opinion...that knife cuts both way Lev.
-------------
"In all likelihood you're going to die out there. We're all going to die out there, but none of us needs to be reminded of that fact. So you die, you never existed." - Lt. Cmdr. 'Angel' Devereaux
Edited by - Stinger on 24-02-2003 12:53:53
Mon Feb 24, 2003 1:16 pm
I can see both sides here. Yes it's annoying that if you follow a feature in depth you discover that you are infact being tricked and these ships aren't really changing cargos, and it might even seem fairly simple to fix that oversight. But there's also another side to this - the fact that you spotted this in the first place is a testament to how much thought has gone in. The fact that you can follow a ship and watch it dock seems pretty new to me. Also it may seem fairly simple to add a script, but there are finite resources in both developement time and CPU cycles running the game - you often have to have a cut off where you say 'well this feature would be nice, but there are more important ones which will make a bigger difference to more people'. It's probably a lot simpler both in development and CPU cycles to have fixed cargos for NPC ships.
Ultimately it's a trade off. I'm a little dissappointed, but then again, if the game wasn't so detailed with trade routes etc, we wouldn't have noticed this in the first place.
Kalniel
Ultimately it's a trade off. I'm a little dissappointed, but then again, if the game wasn't so detailed with trade routes etc, we wouldn't have noticed this in the first place.
Kalniel
Mon Feb 24, 2003 1:30 pm
Those in the know can correct me if I'm wrong, but I reckon if the game is a success and the bean-counters are happy, then resource will be made available for add-ons/patches/features etc as a preliminary to keep people actively involved and so sow ( ) the seeds of the sequel.
<sig deleted by automatic censor>
) the seeds of the sequel.
<sig deleted by automatic censor>
Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:25 pm
Cillum - couldn't agree more!
Best Regards
Christian "Bargib" Koerner
Editor in Chief, The Lancers Reactor
Best Regards
Christian "Bargib" Koerner
Editor in Chief, The Lancers Reactor
54 posts
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