dammit people.. i just asked a really simple question; why does my ship hull fall apart?
then you guys go one rattling about black holes??
i don't think i mentioned anything like it.. i tried to steer the topic away.. but Nooo.. you guys just have to go into black holes.. maybe their gravitational pull is getting to you guys... snap outta it !


presently, my world is upside down, so if u do not mind, u'll have to tok to my a$$

Like someone on the first page said: Because that's what neutron stars do.
Now please let us talk about black holes..

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So actually an event horizon is something that sucks away time?
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Edited by - Ferror on 11-04-2003 19:07:04

I already answered your question above though.

By the way, scientists have been tracking a star 15 times larger than our own, as it orbits the center of the galaxy. It's orbit takes about 15.2 years to reach full circle, scientists have been tracking it for about two thirds that time (1 decade).

15.2 years to circle the center of the galaxy at speeds ultimately exceeding 11 million mph (5,000 kilometers per second). Our sun takes ruffly 230 million years to circle the galaxy nStuff.

The observations rule out nearly all other possible explanations for the tremendous amount of matter -- equal to some 2.6 million suns -- packed into a tight spot at the center of our galaxy.

Long after you are dead and buried, the Sun will devour the Earth, and the Supermassive black hole at the center of our Galaxy will eventually devour what little is left of our sun. Long time from now though prolly. So don't trip.

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An event horizon is a theoretical sphere surrounding a black hole through which objects pass into oblivion.
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But not all those stars will turn into black holes, will they? Some of the smaller stars will turn into neutron stars (which will be devoured by the black stars)....Or did I just say something stupid?

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So actually an event horizon is something that sucks away time?

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Hmmm....I see. According to our common sense, you would definitely think space and time are two separate things. Space are even and time is absolute (independent of everything). Such ideas are formulated and strongly believed in the earlier days. Isaac Newton wrote these as axioms in his Principia, which became the cornerstone of the classical physics. We call such space Euclidean.

But Einstein's general relativity tells you something different. Space and time are inseparable. Space have 3 dimensions (x, y and z) and time has another dimension (t). Together, they are known as the four dimensional space-time continuum. This is because of the fact that the only constant in reality under all conditions is the speed of light. Think, if you shoot a missle at the ground, its speed will be 500m/s. If you shoot it on a fighter jet with speed 300m/s, your missles with get a net speed of 800m/s. Not so for light. They will always be the same no matter how you measure it. This results in lots of funny phenomena if you travel near the speed of light. Hence, measurements must be done based onthe speed of light. Measurements for distance and mass should also be adjusted according to the set of relativistic formulas.

He also solved the mystery of gravity. Think: why is the gravitational mass the same as inertia mass? They have no reason to be the same! The consequence is that all things have the same gravitational acceleration. Why would a feather fall as fast as a coin in vaccuum? That suggest that they gravity must be something external, perhaps a property of space. He eventually solved this using extremely complicated mathematics and ideas from the mathematian Riemann and Einstein's ex-prof Minkoski(Einstein used to look down on him : p ). The solution turned out to be the four dimensional space-time fabric I mentioned above.

Cuvature of space-time = G (Mass density of matter in space-time x c)

In this paradigm, you can think of space as an invisible rubber sheet that has been stretched tight. Now, imagine a star as a ball bearing placed on the rubber sheet. You will notice that the sheet formed a depression. Now, if you put a smaller ball (planet) into near the area of depression, the ball will fall towards the centre, which is the star. This is roughly the idea of general relativity. If you push the smaller ball tangential to the perimeter of depression, at the right velocity, it will go around the ball bearing, hence the revolution of planets around the sun.

Now, coming back to your question. A black hole is something with such a steep curvature that you can imagine it as the rubber sheet with something so heavy that it stretches almost vertically downloads. (Of course, space-time curvature don't break like the rubber sheet). So what happen is that if it is so steep that photons cannot escape from it? Then what is happening inside the event horizon (Schwarzschild radius to be precise) cannot physically affect anything outside (based on locality principle, which is later proven to be flawed by EPR paradox). If we measure the time flowing inside, we must first find a reference. Taking earth as the reference, since what is happening inside can never affect what is outside, the time taken inside for a unit time to pass in the outside world is infinite. Hence, time actually stops right at the Schwarzschild radius.

At the moment, singularities still cannot be effectively described by our physics. People are looking towards quantum gravity to explain it. Roger Penrose even believes it can solve the "hard problem".

Physics is also filled with symmetry: eg. matter and antimatter. There are speculations of white holes that spew forth matter from a singularity. This is a time reversal of the black hole phenomenon. Of course, as it is only moltivated by symmetry and is still not directly observed.

2 things, no not all suns will tur into black holes, only those with enough mass left over after going supernova. And the super massive black hole in the center of our galaxy is pulling us towards the andromeda galaxies supermassive black hole. Therefore the galaxies will collide. We will either be destroyed or flung into space depending on which side of the galaxy we are on at the time of impact. Tat is why the supermassive blackhole may be our demise. (This is just a theory)

Machine Head are godly

Black holes and neutron stars form when stars die. While a star is burning, the heat in the star pushes out and balances the force of gravity. When the star's fuel is spent, and it stops burning, there is no heat left to counteract the force of gravity. Whatever material is left over collapses in on itself. How much mass the star had when it died determines what it becomes. Stars about the same size as the Sun become white dwarfs, which glow from left over heat. Stars that have about 3 times the mass of the Sun compact into neutron stars. And a star with mass greater than 3 times the Sun's gets crushed into a single point, which we call a black hole.

The supermassive black hole in the center of our galaxy, actually holds the galaxy together. So it's perty massive nStuff. Supermassive black holes aren't created by one stars demise, instead they are created by --- well no one really knows. My guess, they are created by other universes, gas, and cosmic strings. A normal black hole created by one dying star feeds off gas and dust. A supermassive - galactic engine - of a black hole feeds off stars and planets.

The supermassive black hole in our own galaxy may be the reason we exist, but it may also be our end. At present Earth is so far away from the black hole that it can't affect us, but all that could change. In 3 billion years we will collide with the next door galaxy, Andromeda (M-31). The resulting apocalypse will force the Earth and our Solar System out of orbit. There's a 50:50 chance that we'll be sent hurtling in towards the black hole at the centre of this maelstrom. This would be fatal for the Earth. lol

Alright! Another scientific discussion on black holes n stuff... Time to post something comepletely out of whack...

No one knows exactly whether or not the centre of the galaxy is a massive black hole; it could be, but not proven.

As for the problem of not enough matter to account the gravity field(ie. stars should have flung away into the deep end of the universe), the scientists, of course, made up something called Dark Matter*... Hee hee sounds evil doesn't it? Which they say, accounts for two thrids of the entire mass of the universe (barion, or normal matter, accounts for merely a tiny fraction) while some form of Exotic Matter accounts for the rest.

Of course, there's the problem of the expanding universe; not only that, through measurements based on Type One A supernovae, astronomers determined that the universe is accelerating away... And what do they contribute to this weird discovery? You guessed it: Dark Energy*

So while we're here yakking away about their discovery, thinking how right or wrong someone might be; you have to realize that, even the brightest scientists aren't exactly sure what the heck is going on.

*Dark Matter is attributed as matter that does not interact with light nor do they emit any form of radiation. In fact they are not dark at all, merely transparent.

*Dark Energy is attributed as the main reason behind the accelerating universe, as it exhibits some sort of anti-gravitational force, pushing space away.

From what I've read, the center of out galaxy isn't a huge blackhole, but a great amount of stars...

So? People used to think that earth is flat, stars go around us, and space is filled with ether. Just because you think it doesn't make it so, and just because you read it on paper doesn't make it true.

Did I say it was true?

In my eyes it's just more logical than an überhuge blackhole..

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Did I say it was true?

In my eyes it's just more logical than an überhuge blackhole..

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No, you didn't say it's true. However you did use that as your point of debate. I simply stated a counter point stating that science almost always defy common sense. Or to quote Professor Michio Kaku:

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If all our common-sense notion about the universe were correct, then science would have solved the secrets of the universe thousands of years ago. The purpose of science is to peel back the layer of the appearance of objects to reveal their underlying nature. In fact, if appearance and essence were the same thing, there would be no need for science.

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u people have way too much time if your gonna sit here and argue about stars... its a frickin game!!! jes play it and have fun blowin NPC's away...

I got one word for yall....... "patch"

Ferror wrote:
> From what I've read, the center of out galaxy isn't a huge blackhole,
> but a great amount of stars...



The view you have read must be from the middle ages then.

Look at the data gathered by the astronomers in the past few years:

- The newest data shows that something very massive and very compact is in the middle of our galaxy exerting enough gravitational force to keep ALL the stars in our galaxy in its orbit. This is observed by the Hubble Space Telescope when astronomers used it to track star movements at the center of the galaxy.

- From the rate of orbit of one of the stars of known mass near the object, that mystery object has been calculated to be something that weighs more than a few million suns.

- Astronomers have seen the telltale signature of high-energy emissions of surrounding matter at that location, but the object emits no visible light like a star would. This is observed by the Chandra X-ray observatory.

So, at the center of our galaxy exists something massive, causes other stars to orbit around it, emits no visible light, but surrounding matter in its immediate zone is emitting X-rays indicating it is being sucked in at high speeds. All of these are CLASSIC signatures of a black hole, and in this case, a supermassive one.

And guess what? The NUKER team doing the research in this field is finding this kind of signature in EVERY spiral and disc-shaped galaxy they looked at.

Whatever you read that says galactic centers are only stars is terribly out of date, dude.








Edited by - Chandrasekhar Limit on 13-04-2003 06:06:47