and you think saying this is not immature. by using big words you think you are acting as mature. mature would be sending this via email, not saying "I coulda told ya so". Seems like you are trying to vent a little too.

T-shirts anyone? opps...

http://www.lancersreactor.com/t/forum/t ... ng&M=False

I am venting a little spawn - i read that he was trying to copyright ideas that were never discovered/put forward by TNG, am just trying to find this out. -and since he failed to reply to any emails i sent in the past, why would this happen again.
Now about those capships, encounters, blackholes, factions etc etc that were added.
TNG did not come up with any of those at all - yet you guys were going to copyright them?? Shadows - fine, nexus - okay (system as a whole package - not the blackhole effect), but for copyrighting the types of stations in the game (bases you made etc) and the NPC ships that have been made player controlled - the beam weapons etc. How about that lot? He posted on a public forum - so since he said don't post a reply there, i made this thread. Those are the questions i wanted to hear answers to. He didn't make any of the above -so why the hell is he implying that he can copyright them so no-one else can use them? Hence i asked what exactly he was trying to copyright - i know this is a touchy area - but i would like a coherrant answer if poss!

As for everyone stealing - what you guys do is give no-one credit for any intelligance at figureing stuff out theirselves. People can and do work stuff out. I see that you guys still hadn't got past the problem of a rheinland battleship docking with tradelanes - well i have, so there is something that proves we are able of working stuff out ourselves. I try to work everything out, it gives me a better understanding, but to have someone claim that they have a copyright over areas that anyone can figure out is just ............guess what i will say!
Chips

Here's what you're not getting, Chips. Reynen was attempting to copyright only those things that were UNIQUE to TNG. My ship designs, which were totally original and NOT FOR RELEASE in other mods, the new storyline and design of the new Centaurus system, and the related scripts designed by Starfyre Studios. He had no interest in copyrighting ships or code written by anyone else.

His only interest was in simply protecting our uniqueness. The Babylon 5 ships, various Star Wars, Star Trek, and other ships, all created by others, were NOT BEING COPYRIGHTED. That would be the height of stupidity, since their original designs are all property of Lucasfilm, Babylonian Productions, Paramount, and so on.

As for taking it too far with this mod, that's not even a possible issue. The purpose of a mod is (and you'll love this) is to MOD-ify a game. We did that. We did it beautifully, and got 53 servers full of people who agreed with that concept. Taking it too far is impossible. We intended no profit-making. We did intend to improve upon the game to the maximum possibility of the engine. That's how a mod SHOULD be done. I think Starfyre Studios accomplished that beautifully.

As for me, I've built 13 (out of 29 planned) brand-new and original ships for Freelancer, all for this TNG 2.0. That number does not include the Homeworld ships I was rebuilding from scratch (which may NOT be copyrighted, by their very nature). Not ONE of those new ships will now be used, due to the exact language used in Microsoft's nasty little letter. Reynen wasn't trying to piss on your parade, bro. He's trying to give you a head's-up, so you see what's coming. Stop looking for a scapegoat besides the people who don't want their game modded at all.




_________



Edited by - Hadryon on 06-10-2003 01:09:22

Edited by - Hadryon on 06-10-2003 01:15:26

Now that is what i was looking for - thankyou

So will there ever be TNG2.0??.....
i just love v1.6

NO credit given??? read teh radme. DOnt have the mod? Ill post the readme so you can get it if you desire. Every single person who has actaully contributed their materials, Geometrical, Intellctual, or coding, is given credit. As for teh stealing stuff, we want teh credit that WHICH WE CRACKED. If i remember correctly Reynen was the one to crack the coding for the Cap ships, both the encounters and the player controlled aspects ( i amy be wrong). Now it may seem like im saying we've done it all, but if you think we stole something from someone cuz it came out in their mod, we can essentually prove we've done it ourselves. Trying to become a company may have been over the line, but as Reynen has said, that was so we COULD accept the donations that people are wanting to give, i get emails at least once a day wondering how they can donte a little money to counter balance the cost of the bandwidth. Do not ever think that we tried to profit from TNG. ANd you can search our site to try and contradict if you wish.

I think Microsoft kindof pissed on its own parade if u catch my drift. Imagine if Sierra had shut down counter-strike and day of defeat think of how much faster half life would have died and been forgotten. but because they decided tp help these mods they made moremoney because they increased their games longevity.

Edited by - Snipy901 on 06-10-2003 02:14:52

I wasn't saying that - i was comparing it too the fact that you guys jumped on people including ideas in their own mods claiming stuff for it, hell i asked for 'permission' for the docking fix posted by duriel a while back before realising that a) It was wanderer who solved it really
b) I already knew of a better method using Wanderers method as a starter - which i was shown back in June.
However, he was kicking a fuss that people didn't ask him for permission - you just said yourself that if they did it themselves, then it aint stealing. So - what you guys mighta done was
a) Learn things from others at this site (like we all have done!) and then apply them to your mod.
b) Then perhaps solve some more problems (you aint though) then rather than share with the rest, you claim for yourselves instead (these would be reasons for preventing people from being able to access or even find the ini files). This is shown by the zealous guarding of a) the docking fix thingy, and b) the way all of you appeared in a thread in the modding forum about someone stealing an idea of yours. Now back then i pointed out that a hell of alot of people would have thought about creating a very very large system - but you guys were addament that it was your idea they had stolen from your site and that they should be asking permission.

As pointed out by the person above though - the things you guys tried to do were rumbled by an annoyed software corporation. I think that speaks volumes itself - as they are not persueing anyone else. I think the need to discuss points of grumbles is lost as well. If you guys were still up, then perhaps it would be worth while to have my say, but whats the point?!

As for microsoft shooting in the foot, i don't believe that. They have a product put out here. They made their money when you brought it, the only way they could make more is by making a mod. I think its safe to say that anything they could put out as an expansion would piddle on what we are capable of from a very great height.
I know people think that TNG did somehting unbelievable - but........
TNG didn't really do anything amazing here, the technically complicated bits were in fact the encounters, and the shadows. I have no clue about the nexus cos i never flew in it - i thought it was hideous though (personal choice though - i know alot of people thought it rocked). However, the points listed there would be causeing any major crashes off of the top of my head - or at least - they are areas i have had trouble in modding. Guns, ships, equipement, loadout changes, drops, NPC actions, costumes, splash screen, intro change, music change and new sounds/effects, changing effects etc etc and the other cosmetics are easy as anything really. So it isn't like anything was radically changed, it was just done on a gradoise scale is all. (so far making systems hasn't proved too hard either!)

Anyways - best of luck guys.

so basically youa re saying anyone could have done what we did? I seriously doubt that, seeing how we have (usually) 3-7 people working on the mod and getting along. It seems that is hard to so, seeing how people are always splitting up teams to get their way.

and not jsut anyone can back them sleves up, like i am right now with this
Manti(hard)core



remember when i said ripping wasnt something to be proud of? THAT is something to be proud ( although its not done yet)





Edited by - spawn on 06-10-2003 05:05:39

Edited by - spawn on 06-10-2003 05:09:10

StarNova:

Shut up before you make yourself look even more idiotic. We can ask for all the donations we want. as long as we don't FORCE you to pay for it to play it (i.e. sell it) then we are fine.

same goes for LR. they can ask for donations if they want to. they would not be selling anything just asking for people's kindess.

and anything I create is MY intellectual copyright. NO MATTER HOW OR WHERE OR WHY IT'S USED. I CAME UP WITH IT AND IT IS MY PROPERTY. MS CAN HAVE THEIR PART OF THE CODE.

We DID consult legally. That's why we incorporated in the first place. so IF MS decided to freak out they could only sue the company, not each of us individually.

why does adding anti-cheat measures give MS the right to shut us down? Most other mods have some form of anticheat. Is it wrong to one-up MS?

We never said MS should care about our hosting problems. Jsut that if anything we LOST money on this.

So, again, shut up and think about what you are posting.


Chips:

You obviously have no modding experience with FL or you would know we did a HECK of a lot more complex stuff than the encouters and Shadows. The encoutners were complex enough let alone the balance considerations on all the weapons and ships.


P/-/3@R D@ D@\/\/G F00lZ

Check out what I'm doing for Reynen's Mod @ my website!


Edited by - BobTheDog on 06-10-2003 04:51:14

Edited by - BobTheDog on 06-10-2003 04:52:12

You want to know what I tried to copyright, here it is.

The Nexus System
The new equipment that was added with TNG
Spawn's graphics

Also for those that continue to think we sell stuff.

WE DID NOT EVER SELL ANY MERCHANDISE. That was NOT MY COMPANY that made the t-shirts, that was http://www.gamesthing.com/

WE DID NOT RUN THAT COMPANY. WE ALSO NEVER SAW ANY MONEY ON SALES THAT WERE MADE, THAT COMPANY ACTUALLY SHUT DOWN IT'S STORE.

I have also PAID for the bandwidth usage for peopel downloaing TNG. Oh wait....BANDWIDTH IS FREE THAT'S RIGHT, THE INTERNET IS COMPLETELY FREE. Even the bandwidth Lancer i using nwo is free....yep good thing.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Chips you also mention stuff people created in JUNE.

DID PEOPEL FORGET ABOUT REYNENMOD!!! That was one of the FIRST major mods out that had a number of stuff that TNG did. That was back in MARCH / APRIL - LONG BEFORE alot of these other mods came out. Michael dan even BASED rebalance mod OFF reynenmod and I gave him permission to use it.

That mod was also the FIRST to use stuff such as player contrlled gunboats, cruiser, and battleships. Implemented DOCKING RINGS and later on in TNG develooping DOCKING WITH CINEMATICS FOR LARGE SHIPS.

We also had beam weapons and lots of other new equipment not seen before which alot of peopl ended up copying into other mods.

Reynenmod was the base for many mods today and MANY people copied them!! We created the stuff in the first place!!! SO why are people accusing us of stealing!! I have given credit to everyone who had contributed to TNG.

MOST PEOPLE DON'T EVEN BOTHER TO READ THE README TO SEE THE THANKS I GIVE THOUGH CAUSE THEY ARE TOO LAZY.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Starnova:

I can't believe some of your statements...sorry, you need to get up to speed son.

1: You CAN copyright ships you create as long as they are not based on a film or tv show.

2: We are not the only mod with anti-cheat, and what about the peopel who devloped the anti-cheat stuff we work with? (anti-hack mod) (unoffical FL patch 2) etc... what about then?

3: So if create a picture or something based on freelancer MS own it right? Wrong. They don't own everything.

4: LOL we aren't even accepting donations. Where'd you get that? Also so you expect everyone to spend money for YOUR enjoyment? So every modder should have to pay a fortune to have thier mod downloaded just so they can hear people complain about it. Paying for complaints, gotta love that. I can't wait till you try and make a mnod and host it.

5: LOL hey buddy, lancer IS accepting donations..where you been?

6: Did and they advised me to go legal to pay taxes on any donations I might receive. Oh wait I suppose you think I should and just taken that and never told anyone.

ps. Sorry you can't cheat. Go to other mods, I'm sure they will love you cheating online since cheaters in SP often cheat in MP.

Edited by - Reynen on 06-10-2003 07:19:12

Man you are so stupid. I do not play online FL so I want to use "cheat" in single player. Personally I do not believe in online cheating. So chill out. Why can't you understand this simple concept. Are you so stupid maybe retarded that you assume that anyone who "cheat" in single player is a "cheater" in MP.

This thread is a bee's wang away from being locked. I really want to leave it open for the TNG guys to answer questions but if I see any more personal slurs it'll get clicked.