Oh, forget it, noone seems to care anyway.

Edited by - Duriel_LOP on 06-10-2003 15:12:26

after reading many horrible abusive posts, I have come to realise, that it will mean

Me and Hadryon are legally allowed to copyright ALL OUR ORIGINAL ideas and thoughts, since they are all on paper, or does that means the trees own all our ideas, seeing paper came from trees?

All Hadryons ships, and the extra work he has done on the storyline for the Centaurus Sector, seeing they are not in FL format yet, any of it, WE can lay claim to it, no?

tell me if I'm wrong.

Ships - yes of course, all the textures etc yea - anything else.........well - you have microsoft lawyers a phone call away! ;P - probabily prudent to check first - and i doubt they are horrible - Microsoft are sounding very very reasonable here - so it might actually be worth a try!

This is what we're trying to protect from people who would just cut-and-paste into their own mods. Original content, all of it, and none for distribution for outside mods.

We do a lot of real work here at Starfyre. The fleet in the pic above took me a week to build, and I'll have a Form TX filled out on it with the Copyright Office within 3 days. Note the lack of references to anything Freelancer. The original textures, models, and storyline are OURS.

Microsoft has no intellectual rights in any of my work, and if I insert that fleet into Freelancer, then THAT FLEET IS STILL MINE. Read the law. Microsoft can still claim the game, but not the unique objects added to it.

And read the posts and microsofts words - they aren't trying to claim your ships at all - god you guys sometimes strike me as nutts!!
I severely doubt that anyone 'steals' ships really - i haven't heard of a mod that has had unauthorized ships in it either (apart from the TNG versus THF Killermatrix thingy - but that was up to u guys to fight out) - but copyright away - its your perogative.

However - the way you insert that ship into FL uses microsoft command instructions for the game engine - so whilst you retain full rights to that model, if you tried to copyright it as 'in game' i think you would then hit a stumper of a copyright infringement..............No Microsoft wouldn't then claim that as their work - they would just say - 'if you are trying to copyright that INSIDE FREELANCER as a ship (ie - put into the ini files etc etc) then you are
infringing on their copyright laws, and too remove it'. With me now? Now - if you don't understand that - well....i cannot think how to explain it simpler!

Nice ships by the way.

On the why is Chips anti TNG - its exactly that reason though. Others allowed you to include their stuff in your mods, but you would withhold stuff like the above from the community. Basically - i saw it as you guys were taking with one hand from the freelancer community..................and giving every other modder the finger with the other. That however is a personal view. If a moderator finds that too much, edit me down there - rather than lock the thread!

Now - I hope you guys can work out an agreement with microsoft about getting on with your mod without copyright problems - as a lot of people enjoyed your work - that is a fact.......whatever some may personally feel!

(this is not directed at people who have written nice comments)

look, this is my personal opinion:

See? we have put all this hard work into it,and you bash us. you should be ahshamed. We never intended to copyright stuff made by other people, how stupid do you take us for?

-stupid enough to fix up a mod, so it is just as much, or even more stable than original Freelancer?
-stupid enough to make a popular mod, so that (53) servers would run it, and cause confusion for simple people like ourselves?
-stupid enough to do this all for free? in our spare time?
-stupid enough to host it on our own servers, and pay money for bandwidth, so YOU could play it?

jeeze, why are you all bashing us?, is it because you thought, wow all these people are bashing them, I think it would be cool to as well!

Half of you don't even read any of this, you don't even read what we have to say, you just go staright out at us, without even thinking about what you are saying.

All the work I was doing on the Centaurus Sector is now scrapped because of M$, which was going to be around 30 new ORIGINAL ships, 30 or more NEW Systems, with an entirely original story concept. Alot of things were going to go into it.

Even some of you are so rude, you insult us straight out, and even ask us for TNG 2.0 (though most ppl that asked for it were not horridly rude to us)

Well, unfortunately TNG 2.0 Isnt coming out, hell it probably will never come out, we have been working for MONTHS on TNG 2.0, and then M$ stops us, and you all laugh. How would you like it to happen to you? from what I have read here, you WOULDNT. Yet, you all seem perfectly content in insulting us, so why should we even think about releasing TNG 2.0 (even though we cannot anymore)

alot of you should think before you speak, but sadly this is not the case. Most of you who have bashed and either written tiny mods or none at all, couldnt understand the amount of Organisation, Hard Work, Loyalty, that goes into a mod and its team. Those of you who have made large mods, though do not seem to understand which is odd.

I even noticed on Frost-Works site, they delete a topic, which me and Spawn posted in informing the readers there of the situation, yet, he only locked a topic which had posts insulting TNG. If I had been him, and it were Frostworks being bashed, I probably would have locked it and deleted the post, and told people it was not nice, but that shows you the enourmous human capacity for incompetence and stupidity.

If you want TNG 2.0 you will have to fight for it, as we cannot afford to.

Some of you insulted Reynen, who has put his heart and love into the mod. What can I say? It is a disgrace. Reynen has been helpful to those who play by the rules.

I just wished to express my disgust at those people, who didn't even think about what they were writing, or even read Reynens posts. It is a pity the FL comunity is so backstabbing, but what can you expect from human beings? we cannot expect much from our race, because we are still stupid. We still hate, which does nothing good to us at all.

quotes which apply in this situation

"I get so tired of listening to one million dollars here, one million dollars there; it's so petty." - Imelda Marcos
"You can make a throne of bayonets, but you can't sit on it for long." - Boris Yeltsin
"He who can suppress a moment's anger may prevent a day of sorrow." - Tryon Edwards
"He who possesses most must be most afraid" - Unknown
"Fear makes strangers out of people who should be friends." - Unknown
"Be not afraid of growing slowly, be afraid only of standing still." - Chinese Proverb
"You got to know when to hold em', know when to fold em', know when to walk away and know when to run." - Kenny Rogers
"Imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery."
"I don't think of all the misery, but of all the beauty that still remains." - Anne Frank
"You will come to rue the day you were rude. "
"The more arguments you win, the fewer friends you will have"
"Live by the sword, die by the sword. "
"It is more blessed to give than to receive."
"The good man is always honest. The evil man is always dishonest. The smart man just keeps his mouth shut."
"Think before you speak."
"If you think before you speak, you'll speak twice better for it. "
"You don't realize what you have until it is gone. "
"There is no substitute for hard work." - Thomas Jefferson
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish." - Euripides
"Pride is that which compels a man to do his very best even when nobody is watching. "
"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." - Mark Twain
"In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity" - Albert Einstein
"Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed." - Mark Twain
"Virtue has never been as respectable as money." - Mark Twain
"If we attempt nothing, then we can achieve nothing. But if we try and fail, we still can gain. "
"Before you try to set things straight, make sure you see things straight. "
"There are always two choices, two paths to take. One is easy. And its only reward is that it's easy."
"If we attempt nothing, then we can achieve nothing. But if we try and fail, we still can gain."
"It is not the size of the dog in the fight it is the size of the fight in the dog"
"Try not to become a man of success but rather a man of value." - Albert Einstein
"Who are the ones we kept in charge, Killers, Thieves and Lawyers, God's Away on Business" - Tom Waits



Edited by - Duriel_LOP on 06-10-2003 20:52:37

actually, Chips, the original ships we were making were for us only, it is true. Similar to the New Universe mod, which is NOT giving its new original ships away. Those ships that were built from other universes, like Homeworld and such, were likely to be made available in the future, but not those ships which were endemic to the Centaurus Sector, which was our own storyline.

Of course we aren't sharing everything. Check your jealousy at the door, bro. Some stuff can be shared, naturally, but not that which makes Starfyre Studios unique. Reynen has helped others with code, as has Bob and the others. But no, those ships shown above, and the others like them, will not be used for anything besides the TNG mod. Call us selfish, but if we didn't do it that way, there would be nothing making us different from anyone else. And that is the idea, right?

Chips:

First off I have to defend spawn on some of your accusations. He is ONE OF THE BEST ARTISTS AND MODELLERS I HAVE EVER SEEN. Look at the ships below and tell me those aren't excellent. THESE ARE JUST A FEW SPAWN HAS DONE.

Tempest


Hammerhead


Shivan Capship


Ascendent


Bab5 Capship



Also how was us getting a copyright going to make us money? We never intended to sell anything. We can't sell it in stores and offering it for download is illegal.

As for sharing:

On the why is Chips anti TNG - its exactly that reason though. Others allowed you to include their stuff in your mods, but you would withhold stuff like the above from the community. Basically - i saw it as you guys were taking with one hand from the freelancer community..................and giving every other modder the finger with the other. That however is a personal view. If a moderator finds that too much, edit me down there - rather than lock the thread!

1: We were freely given stuff for our mod and gave everyone credit that did.

2: EVERY SINGLE MOD THAT GAVE US STUFF HAD STUFF THEY WOULD NOT GIVE US. Perfect examples are some stuff in Hositle Universe and in Rebalance mod. Would you like to see the emails regarding this? And you are telling us it's not right to keep some stuff to ourselves? Everyone else doesn't share EVERYTHING so why should we. We have some stuff that we would like to keep us unique.

3: I told people they could use some stuff from TNG IF THEY GAVE CREDIT TO US FOR USING IT. A few blantly said no they did not want to give us credit. You think we still should have given it to them?

Reynen Starfyre
Project Leader: Starfyre Studios
Freelancer: The Next Generation

Those images are of model s i Reproduced as practivce to learn modeling, everything i shown in the renders is mine as i remade the parts and recreated the textures (trying to look as little as i could at the roiginal models, mostly by Fabio Passaro)

WHAT IS STARFYRE GOING TO DO?

I think it is past the point of deciding what it was that Starfyre did that went too far for MS. I don't know whether MS is being reasonable at all. The point would be that MS doesn't have to be reasonable in any way. They have the EULA and they have the size to be able to intimidate anyone ever more hurtfully than the RIAA could ever dream to do. So the fact that Starfyre got picked on also is significant for reasons other than this "copyrighting" technicality.

The arguments in favor of leaving Starfyre alone all have to do with the fact that modding keeps FL alive and player interest up until another FL comes along. At the same time though, MS and DA do not want modders to fill up the spectrum of possible development avenues because it just makes it more work for them to come up with a new FL version or sequel concept.

The point is that Starfyre needs to talk to MS and DA and negotiate a deal if possible. MS and DA can play hard ball and refuse to deal. Protesting that they are being nasty isn't going to make them any more receptive to discussions than they are already.

The rest of us beating-up on Starfyre doesn't help FL modding because it just gives MS and DA more ammunition to put the squeeze on Starfyre and, by extension, intimidate the heck out of the rest of the FL modding community.

Starfyre needs to:

1) Agree to keep anything they discuss with MS and DA to be absolutely confidential, subject to some pretty heavy duty penalties if they blab.

2) Find out what the central issues of what MS and DA wants Starfyre to stop doing and agree to stop doing it ... or else. Like it or not, it may kill some ideas for TNG 2.0. Let's hope it is only an item here or an item there.

3) Stop copyrighting ... or more to the point, stop asserting your copyright. Reading between the MS / DA's lines, something happened to cross them up. It has to do with copyrighting done by Starfyre. It is possible that it is the actual content of one of the copyrights Starfyre is asserting just as it is possible that it is just a matter of MS flexing its muscles (which MS is well known to do).

Spawn - never said you weren't a good moddler - or a great moddler. I just said that standing up to the FL level (as in DA's moddlers) is tough - but who here can wthout the programs/resources they have. The only time i gave spawn grief was that you made rude comments on Caids work......every time he posted.

I have never, nor would i ever, knock any moddlers work......why? Cause i cannot model for......erm - rude word! I tried, i failed. About the best i could manage was a tube - and ther prog made that itself. So, i have never said what he hasn't made was good. However, i know you are all at the height of annoyance due to your situation - frankly, i am bored, as i am sure you guys are, of posting anything. At first i was angry - it seemed that you wished for the same fate to befall us all.........just cause you guys tried to copyright something - REGARDLESS OF YOUR INTENTIONS!!!!.
After that, i was pissed cause I thought you were trying to gain a strangle hold on the rest of the community.

Now, i don't give a monkeys. I will do what i do, figure out problems, post what i know to help others to learn how to do it, and to hell with what anyone else has found out. If i use someone elses stuff - then i credit, if i worked it myself - then i won't ....cause its mine. Simple. I have neverlooked in ini files, and never will - cause i like to learn my stuff the best way - through understanding. You don't get that from copying.

I am still concerned about the future though. All this stuff now is really quite upsetting none the less, you musn't forget what we have done, and what we were to do.

We MAY have gone abit to far, we MAY NOT have. I don't know. Maybe a possible solution is to ask Microsoft if they can grant us at Starfyre Studios permission to let the mod back into action, and maybe even get copyright allowed.

But I doubt it though, but I think it would be worth a try.

Kendo_THM - Over and out for now...

I'm your Helping Hand

well imgonna saythis it my opion u might think im an nood.. wich im not but as i see.

u cant copyright any modles under the .CMP format becouse when u make it .CMP it rightfully come microsoft/DA ships so .CMP is an ms/da copyright modle protection that what CMP stand for hehe and it only use by DA/MS. so u cant copyright any modle in CMP format...

this is my opoin

it is your opinion, but those models are NOT in .cmp format

also, it seems that some of you totally ignored my post and went straight to the quotes