This is just a suggestion, let me know what you think. Putting together all of the previous suggestions, how about this:

The battle would last up to a set amount of time, like 2 hours.
All defenders start anywhere in California system. All invaders start in any system they want outside of the system they are attacking. All attackers have to be in a group and all defenders have to be in a group so they can be easily identified. This will give the defenders an advantage of knowing which system the attackers are coming from. The defenders have to have all docked at home planet (Los Angeles in this case), so if they die they respawn there.

The key to the whole battle will be dockable locations (bases/planets). The goal of attackers will be to capture all of the bases in the system within 2 hours, and the goal of the defenders will be to still be in control of at least 1 base after 2 hours, in addition to their home planet.

On go, attackers jump into system (California). They can use jump holes or gates, and come from any direction. Battles can be anywhere and everywhere, but they only really count at dockable bases/planets. If a player dies, they have to wait at least 1 minute before they respawn, and then they can rejoin the battle. HOWEVER, the attackers can not dock in the system they are attacking, so they have to respawn in the system they attacked from and reenter the jump gate. Also, the defenders can only use home planet to respawn (ie Los Angeles). Then, if at any point during the battles a dockable location (base/planet) has been eleminated of all defenders, so that only attackers remain, then that dock becomes theirs, they now own it. An announcement should be made (system chat) that that base has been captured. NO DEFENDERS CAN ENTER THAT AREA ANYMORE. The attackers can then choose to dock there if they wish to respawn at that location. The battles would now be restricted to the remaining bases/planets. If the attackers capture all the bases/planets other than the home planet within 2 hours, they have won the whole battle. If at the end of 2 hours though, the defenders still own any bases/planets other than home planet, they have successfully defended their system. One final rule: dock camping/killing by the attackers is allowed at the home planet (Los Angeles).

In this particular case, the bases would be: Alcatraz Depot, California Minor, Willard Research Station, and San Diego Border Station - attackers would have to capture all 4 bases to be declared winner.

This system would allow for all players to fight the whole time because they could respawn as many times as they want (after the 1 minute rule). It would also allow for a lot of strategy - the attackers would have to choose where they want to concentrate their attacks to try to capture bases. The defenders would also have to make sure there was at least 1 defender at each base (lest the attackers slip in a lone ship and claim that base), or choose which bases to defend or concede. If the defenders tried to choose only 1 base to defend, the attackers could try to concentrate on dock camping at Los Angeles to stop reenforcements from coming in. This would also allow Drake's to be used freely - the attackers would be at a disadvantage using a Drake because they have to kill in order to win. If the defenders wanted to use Drake's, they would have to fear dock camping by the attackers, since it's hard to stop it with a Drake.

GOV WON THE BATTLE FOR CALIFORNIA! YAY!

love that monkey brow and jaguar

The match tonight was a great deal of fun. I have some observations and ideas on how to improve the play for next time however.

1: Alot of time was spent on both sides trying to figure out who died and might have come back, and who had not.
2: There was some confusion over which trade lane was being fought over.
3: The match is in favor of the defender (who only has to win at the gate). This is fine, but requires us to keep track of who owns what system. Certainly there is nothing wrong with the advantage being the defenders - it is as it should be
4: Fighting a drake at the end of a match is largely a waste of time. With 5 VHF's vs one drake you know the outcome with a 99.9% certainty. However, the execution (due to some excellent piloting, granted) was 10 minutes in the doing. This needs to be adressed and streamlined. Perhaps there should be a simple option of conscession when the battle is logically over? In a real war I'm quite sure that final player might have surrendered.

The first two issues can be eaily resolved for next time by the inclusion of a neutral ref WHO UNDERSTANDS FULLY the rules. This ref should be capable of kindly issuing warnings for misconduct, perhaps a warning flag kind of thing. A referee chosen before hand who watches the player (location) list and the notices of deaths and WRITES IT DOWN ON PAPER while doing so, will neatly solve problems one and two.
As for problem #4, I have no idea what the solution should be. Suggestions are needed.

These little problems however, did nothing to detract from the basic fun of the event, and I hope we get the opportunity to run another one soon! The rules for the most part seemed workable, though perhaps in need of some streamlining

I seriously considered fighting for the freedom of California but after getting through about 14 pages of guidelines and restrictions, I wanted to scrath my eyes out. It was more fun in Texas. We just pounded the opponents into submission. I know it sounds barbaric, but it turned out to be fun. The basic concept of fighting for a system in not an entirely bad idea, BUT if you you want the casual player to join in the fight and make it a real large scale affair, there can't be so many feaking (no pun intended) guidelines. If everything were more straightforward, I bet you could get nearly everyone logged on to participate.

I'd just prefer that the time the battle is set is at a little more convenient time.

How long did the battle last, and what were the numbers?


So, how 'bout the Battle of Texas part 2? Can't give up Texas without another fight.

Edited by - DaShadow54 on 16-07-2003 16:09:27

Sometime last week a group of rogues and so called "freedom fighters" invaded the California system. They treated the poor citizens very badly and very soon an outcry went out asking for help. As soon as GOV was aware of the plight of poor California, they gathered up their forces and headed towards California. Along the way their allies in SD joined up for the battle of Cal. Some independant fliers joined up on both sides of the conflict, and in the end there were about 6 GOV/allies and 5 pirates/allies. The numbers changed slightly between battles. . . Some of the independant fliers might choose to remain anonymous, but for the side of the attackers, there were:
[GOVRegulator - Our fearless leader
[GOVImpulse - Man this guy can fly!
[GOVEqualizer - Had to leave early
[GOVAmaar - Came in late, replaced Equalizer
[SDWasabe
Jaguar
There were several others, but I'm not sure if they want to be mentioned, they can post if they would like

On the side of the defenders (original invaders of Cal):
{JRK}_Eat_Plasma_&_Die - Leader of the pirates, aka "Justinian"
RussianMafia Sasha - A very honorable warrior
Stalker
Meiyo Chie - Master of the Dreaded Drake
Quacker
O_o
There were also several other on the side of the defenders, but unfortunately I can't remember them, sorry. . .

The battle started quickly at the NY jump gate inside of California. The attackers (GOV and allies) quickly defeated the first wave of defense and pushed them back to planet Mohave. The attackers pursued to Mohave for the second battle, but this time the defenders were ready and defeated GOV to push the battle back to the Jump Gate. GOV regrouped and prepared for the third battle. At the NY Jump Gate, there was a little confusion when after a short skirmish, it seemed that the defenders were retreating back to Mohave. GOV pursued and another battle was fought at Mohave, and once again GOV/allies were victorious. However, the defenders would not be deterred. All sides regrouped and 1 final battle was fought above planet Mohave. The battle was very heated, but in the end GOV and allies were victorious.

This recap may be a little incorrect, I'm not positive about all the details, but then again, the victors get to write the history books!

There were several notable things that this pilot would like to be mention - first off, there were some amazing piloting skills shown in the skirmish, as Meiyo Chie seemed almost impossible to kill, whether in a Drake or an Eagle. However, GOV countered with Impulse, who was also equally impossible to kill, and in fact only died once the entire time, the least of anyone who had fought in all the battles.

Very well fought battles...nuff said.

I think all would agree that this is HUGE fun. Regulator and I will be working on some "guidelines" to help prevent confusion.

Suggestion - IF you are interested in playing in the future, get ahold of either Regulator or myself - BY EMAIL! We can spread the news concisely by email. Personally, when I broadcast anything, that is - send an email to more than one person - I do it using the BCC line, no one ever knows anyone elses email. If you are interested in Fighting with the Freedom Fighters of CA (FFCA - but not a clan), please email [email protected]. You will not be spammed a bunch of useless garbage, your name and identity will be protected, and I will never sell you out to anyone. Just put your char name in the subject line. It would also be nice to know what ship you choose to fight in. We will be dueling in CA for two General's Positions (held by Sasha and Chie). Winners get to be Generals in the Militia. More to come in an email.

JRK_Eat_Plasma died...quite unfortunate accident....Cardamine and planets do not mix...His widow will be transferring his funds and selling off his ship, so you might see him around - but only briefly. He asked me to uphold the cause of a Pirate Paradise in CA. There will be continued fighting.

Just a note - Wasabe hit it perfectly - MAKE SURE YOU CAN BE INVITED TO THE GROUP YOU ARE FIGHTING WITH. Command & Control and secrecy cannot be maintained if you cant be invited and have to use system chat.

If you can't dock inside the system, find somewhere close. Try to maintian neutral settings with the local cops/navy etc...

that's all for now.

Hail Ceasar! Leader of the Free Peoples of the Holy Roman Empire, defender to the lower ranked and faith, lover of monkies (but not those DAMN DIRTY APES!). God Save Ceasar - or the screamer behind him will! Hail Ceasar!!!

Excellent indeed. All parties faught well, as you may or may not know, I was undercover fighting for one side. A couple of things I would like to mention, and suggest too.

1) In the first battle for NY JG, the pirates re-entered the battlefield, I believe only the drake was left, and then all of a sudden another 3 or 4 pirates were present. Coulda been a comms issue.

2) On the 10 minute drake issues. I think that if there have been no deaths in 5 minutes, then the side with the highest number of remaining pilots wins the scirmish/encounter.

3) Having the GOV in this case go back to NY to get bots/bats/ammo was a bit time consuming. Everyone knew the rules, and having them dock in LA or some other dock wouldn't have taken anything away from the war, and would have sped up the battle frequency.

Some notes on the rules of the battle last night. . .

I thought the battle worked out really well once everyone knew the rules. It took a little while and there was some confusion initially, but the rules definately made sense.

By those rules, use of a Drake was just fine, in fact it seemed that it was a disadvantage to fly in one. So no restrictions needed to be placed on what ships a player could use.

In last night's battle, the numbers were pretty even, 5vs6 most of the time. However, if in the future the sides are not so easily matched, these rules really do favor the team with more fighters. Is that ok? I guess that could be viewed as realism.

Finally, in last night's battle, the first encounter was fought at the Jump Gate, and if the attackers would have lost, then the whole war would have been over. I think it would be more fun if there were guaranteed at least 2 or 3 encounters before either side could win. Don't know how that would work though. . . Maybe start at the center of the system, and 1 side tries to push other side out towards one jump gate, and the other side vise versa. So if the battle was for Cal, the battle starts at Los Angeles, and if defenders win they push the battle back towards the NY gate. But if the attackers win they push back towards the gate to Magellan or Cortez. This way at least 2 battles would have to be fought to win. . .

NICE JOB GOV and Friends!

Sorry I was unavailable...maybe next time!

Was there any booty???


ps DaShadow good ideas bro, very logical, and sounds like fun.

As a side note: just as with any battle, there were innocent civilian casualties last night. A freighter pilot named "ghost ship" was mistakenly fired upon and destroyed while passing through the system.

If there was any loss of cargo because of the mistake, I would be happy to replace the value of the cargo. I'll try to contact Ghost if I see you online. . .

Thanks. But with the group communication thing, isn't there a limit to how many are in a group? You might get problems if the number of people involved gets bigger.
So, when's the next battle? It's not like we have any reason to wait very long for another battle.

Edited by - DaShadow54 on 16-07-2003 19:33:37

I have made an update to the FAQ post at the beginning of this thread. Just added the GOV/USB website address. I will delete this notice to prevent clutter.

On the topic of the Ghost Ship being an innocent victim of our battles. Upon her second attempt to pass, I asked everyone not to fire upon Ghost Ship. It seemed kinda silly to be giving requests/demands like that to a group that included a bunch of pirates that were in the act of committing piracy. Ghost Ship made it through the second time.

I would just like to propose making this a guideline. When pirates are attacking territories during a battle, it would be best to stick to pirating NPC's only. That way our battle doesn't disrupt other players too much. I know the pirates did stick to NPC's only, I just wanted to mention the idea.

Regulator