Actually the SUR exporter has worked, it's your model that's at fault as well as your lack of knowledge on what is required. The CMP & SUR exporters will export whatever you give them in the proper format, but Freelancer needs specific things in them to work right, and most of the modelers around here don't know how to or are to lazy to add the specifics.

You need two models, one for the CMP/3DB and a lower poly version for the SUR, both models <span style="text-decoration: underline">MUST</span> be built in a multi-component format for the SUR to even have a chance of working. The component names in both models must match, the names are written into the "rigging" in the CMP as well as being coded into the multiple component mesh of the SUR.

If you want you can mail me the ms3d and I'll see if it's possible to make a SUR for it, probably will be with a bit of modification (nothing drastic) as I haven't failed with a SUR yet, I've got a nice little fleet of ships with destructables and close fitting custom SURs to prove it , all straight out of milkshape and without going near the SUR-Splicer (don't even have it anymore).

Just so you know what I'm talking about by multi component CMPs & SURs here's a link to a freebie I posted in the model and texture exchange just over a week ago.

**shuffles off with a new headache**

*OOPs wrong link*

Edited by - Bejaymac on 9/1/2007 8:46:32 AM

Thanks alot mate, just hearing that has at least put me on the right track. I was never aware that the mesh and sur HAD to be multi-component, it just means i'll have to back-track a bit...

what mod do you work on these days then?

see my tutorial on multi component destructible ships for a step-by-step on the process - i've labeled it advanced to discourage the lamest noobs but its really pretty easy if you're willing to invest a couple hours

your station doesn't -have- to be multicomponent, but your SUR will have to be one primitive shape if it's not, thats all - so unless you can cover it completely with a box or sphere or cylinder a single-mesh sur is probably out (you can join cubes together into a single-mesh, but the results are mixed)

Edited by - Cold_Void on 9/1/2007 5:56:22 PM

well the sur i made to wrap over the station is primitive objects - but since they are a collection of primitives, i see now it needs to be a multi-component.

It'll be good to know that my Proteus station wont go to waste now

Thanks alot guys!

Cold_v - hows your mod coming along m8?

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I was never aware that the mesh and sur HAD to be multi-component

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You and everybody else I'm sorry to say. Despite having had a CMP exporter that does multiple components for a few years very few use it properly, Cold_Void is the only other person I know that does multiple components as I've yet to find any in any of the mods that I've looked at(I've been through most of them).

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your station doesn't -have- to be multicomponent, but your SUR will have to be one primitive shape if it's not, thats all - so unless you can cover it completely with a box or sphere or cylinder a single-mesh sur is probably out (you can join cubes together into a single-mesh, but the results are mixed)

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This is the reason so many failed miserably with the SUR exporter when we first got it, the "Root" of the SUR cannot have a "dent"(convex/concave I can never remember which so I use "dent" instead) in it as this will render the SUR useless, and as most people don't do multiple components thier SURs' "Root" has dozens of "dents".

The picture is to show what I'm refering to by "dents", the model is the same one I linked to in a thread over in the 3D modelling forum to try and encourage people to work with the Exporter, didn't work as I've had 5 d/l's in over 8 months and I'm sure one of them was Louva_Deus as he linked the thread to the SUR Exporters sticky in the EOA part of these forums.


I've merged both ship & SUR ms3ds and deleted everything that doesn't become part of the ROOT in both CMP & SUR, the red wireframe is for the CMP & white for the SUR. The red arrow is what I mean by a "dent", although it's a pretty big one in this case, but even the small one on the top or the ones to the right will still stop the SUR from working. As you can see the white wireframe covers over the "dents", this is exactly what a vanilla SURs ROOT does.

With ships I keep the model for the SUR to under 300 polys, that way I get to check the DirectX mesh reduction box on the exporter, this gives me a better defined SUR as it uses the whole model rather than most of it. One tip is to unweld the whole model and then to weld each component seperately, other wise you might get a "vertex" warning from the exporter, this can also "break" the SUR.

**shuffles off with a new headache**

Edited by - Bejaymac on 9/2/2007 8:16:26 AM

Makes plenty of sense really - and my latest model is taking groups and primatives into account now too, i'll have to clean up the proteus.

Alas there is hope for me yet

Are you still actively modding these days? seems that the scene is quiet compared to a while ago

Edited by - [HoTaConQUesT on 9/2/2007 8:38:47 AM

heres the low down of my station...

Its built up in a very symetrical fashion but im wondering if i have too many object groups to be able to export this baby successfully..




would the multiple meshes per-group help with this as the total number for seperate parts hits over 20.
Edited by - [HoTaConQUesT on 9/2/2007 10:36:29 AM

Edited by - [HoTaConQUesT on 9/2/2007 10:37:06 AM

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Are you still actively modding these days? seems that the scene is quiet compared to a while ago

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wouldn't know what to do with myself if I wasn't, although it's mostly debugging other peoples work to help them out and the odd spot of model making, as well as dropping in here 3 or 4 times a day to see who needs help.
You'll find that most of the active mods have their own sites so the traffic has moved to them, but they still come back here looking for help.

Nice model, bit hard to see the texture detail from the small pictures, but a nice design.

From what I can see I'd export it as 14 components, 1 for each of the 3 saucer sections, 6 for the arms that join them to the central hub, 1 each for the top & bottom part of the hub, 2 for the bits that connect them to the centre and 1 for the center itself. As long as that small center part doesn't have a docking bay then I'd make it the "Root" for both CMP & SUR, rearrange the groups in MS3D's group list so that they're in the right order for the components (ie all groups for saucer 1 are right beside each other in the list). You can have as many seperate groups as Milkshape can handle (255 I think Mete said), but you can only have 18 components which is the MAX the exporters allow, the "Group Options" section of the exporters is a little misleading as it's not "Groups" your exporting but rather "Components". I have one ship that has 40 groups in Milkshapes group list, but it's exported as 7 components, the Model I linked to in my earlier post has 8 groups, 2 textures and was exported as 5 components (1, 2, 2, 2, 1), however the SUR had 5 groups, no textures and was still exported as 5 components (1, 1, 1, 1, 1).

**shuffles off with a new headache**

sadly, i haven't been making much progress there - i'm almost ready to call it quits and throw in the metaphorical towel by giving away the work i've done on it for other modders to use. *shrug* the only reason i haven't yet is because i hoped to balance it a little better first

You seem to have alot of headaches there

thanks alot for that - i had considered one other alternative which was to break it down into seperate solars which could then be matched together when placing on the map, with the bonus of being able to maybe make the saucers rotate as they are component add-ons

I know what you mean cold_v - the current MOO project is slowing down considerably atm - but i am trying to mill-on in the hopes that something good can come of it. we do have alot of great concepts - just trying to get them implemented is another thing :S

Edited by - [HoTaConQUesT on 9/2/2007 1:48:11 PM

Cool model ConQUesT. May I use this in my mod (Order Evolution) if you get this working?

For the moment at least it is still exclusive to the MOO server mod that is currently under developement,

Should that project sink however i'll be in touch

This whole group thing is a rather new area for me so if you would just suffer those headaches for a moment longer....

You mentioned about the exporter (cmp) exporting components rather than groups per-say. So in effect each arm which is actually made up of 3 groups could be exported as a singular component?

im sure looking at your provided file would shed light on this but i cant access your file atm - the filtering systems at my workplace suck

The groups are rather new to most people around here to, most of the models in the mods have a handful of groups to match the number of textures. Which is why myself and Cold_Void try to encourage people to us multiple components, we hate having to rip someone elses model to pieces just to have destructables and a custom SUR. Finding a model you want to use is one thing, contacting the maker for permission to use it and to alter it is totally different, some people can get quite upset when you say you want to alter thier model.

The file I linked to in my earlier post is a FLMM mod, it's a ship testing mod I use, it only has the exported files in it so people can try the 'Sai' from Starlancer in a fully destructable state.

If you use these files instead you'll see what I mean by shuffling the group list, the model is a freebie from turbosquid that I've done a lot of SUR experiments with over the past year, it's also the same one from the picture in my above post. Just checked the files and I'm in shock 20 d/ls in the past month, maybe I'm finaly starting to get through to some people.

Open Ship_01.ms3d and look at the group list (ignore the hardpoints as they don't count) and you'll see 17 groups listed like this-
Main_Hull
Aft_Cannons
Hardpoint_05
Hardpoint_06
This is component one or the "Root", thats 4 groups listed next to each other, then it's-
Starboard_Strut
Star_Cannons
Hardpoint_03
Hardpoint_04
Another 4 groups to make component 2, if you select the CMP exporter and then select "load settings" and load in the ship.ces file you'll see the "groups" have been preset, there are 8 components in total, (4, 4, 4, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1) working from the top of milkshapes group list, that's the first 4 for component 1, the next 4 for component 2, and so on until you have the last group for component 8 (Tail_Fins).

You can ignore the hardpoints in the SUR model as thier for complex SURs, which work great apart from destructables. You'll notice that there are only 8 groups in this model, each has the same name as the first group in each component from the ship model, this is what ties the SUR to the CMP. The .ces file for the SUR is different that the one for the CMP, it still has 8 components but each component only uses 1 group. Take the 'Sai', the wings have 2 groups each because it uses 2 textures to cover them, but in the SUR they don't use textures so those 2 groups have been regrouped to make one (less of a headache for the exporter).

For your station I'd stick with a primitive SUR like the one I gave the 'Sai', shrink wrapped in your case (rather than a bubble) with weapon and collision detection but without the rest of the components you find in a DA style complex SUR.

**shuffles off with a new headache**