>Wod, I know cloaking is out it always has been, but I would suggest to read my post again

Maybe you read my post again. Im not talking about the cloak that is made working by ini modifications (known since 2003), but Im talking about a cloak that is working on the clientside due to .dll modifications (released 03/2007) and can be controlled serverside.

>See the point?

No I dont see the point. There are many ways you can customize a dynamic economy AND cloaking, so it is not the same at all!
Oh and why do some crazy people release ship models?
"Omg they will be used in every mod now and all mods will be the same..."
Yes they certainly will, still the mods are not the same.
Or why has FLHook/FLShell been released?
"OMG now all servers will have the same features..."
Thats just stupid. They may have the same features but they are still very different, given that FLHook is Open Source and you can write your very own modifictations.
There is no way we could have that variety of modifications/serverside features if everyone would just sit on its achievements to boost their own community/server.

Sorry but I dont see your point, really! And I will continue to fight for a more open FL Editing Community.

@Swat:

>no matter if it was when i defended the internation modding community, when i got accused unreasonable to abuse my admin powers here at LR or here on this thread

That german discussion, well I made a little comment that was directed at all the discussion participators, as the discussion was very pointless/ Flame War IMO.
The abuse of admin powers, the thread was turning into the topic of filtering news or limit certain news and I had my own opinion about it. I didnt offend you in any way in this thread.

Edited by - w0dk4 on 5/9/2007 7:43:24 AM

A point i'd like to make about what ur saying regarding mods having the same features.

A lot of mods now have the same features and people play these "different" mods anyway instead of just playing the 1 that had whatever features 1st.

why?

Simple and i'll use the word that's ever so popular in this thread

the community.

Hypothetical example:-

I've played Crossfire and not liked the server for the following possible reasons:-
1.)didn't like the community
2.)didn't like how it was run
BUT i do like the mod itself, a friend tells me of a mod that is very simular to crossfire, so we decide to try it out and you like the server because either or both of the reasons you didn't like Crossfire have been eliminated.

THIS is why other modders who are creating their mods would like a more open sharing of knowledge,popular features attract players..and it is rather arrogant to assume that helping someone with something because they aren't able to do it will mean 1:1 copies. People do change things,and if u've helped them with some information then that's fine,most people do thank each other for whatever information help that has been given/recieved.

imho most of your "helping" posts Op are usually ones on the lines of "it's possible yes and i may look into it when i have the time".....

If someone can see this being helpful then please drop me a line and tell me how. Hell..even write it in german if you like,i can speak/type it well enough.

I don't deny that you've done a lot for Freelancer,Op. I've played on ur server and it is a lovely mod,but sometimes i do think you act like a spoilt child "I've got it and YOU'RE not having it", and sadly the opinion is spreading.

Now please feel free to rip my post apart and say such and such,but like yourself i am allowed my opinion.


Oh and on another note....i believe that dotCom,part of Fadius' mod team sent you a e-mail asking for some assistance..

And You said yourself that you reply to e-mails from people...funny,he's still waiting for one...............

Darth *rant mood* Revan

dotcom did send me exactly 2 mails in the past weeks (about dynamic economy) and both were answered (and im damn sure that both were sent since every mail ive sent is stored)

im not really going to rip something apart but at least i should be able to defend myself from accusations or wrong claims... dont you think this?

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imho most of your "helping" posts Op are usually ones on the lines of "it's possible yes and i may look into it when i have the time".....

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ppl only see what they want to see
so if you take the hundreds of posts that i made here and will look at them you might notice none of them were questions such as "how did you do that... and how can this be done" (plz dont interprete too much in that now), you will also notice that i was not that much active in "off topic" spam or "fan fictions"... which leaves the conclusion that all those posts were about FL modding or the general development of LR
and if you find maybe 10 posts where i said "its possible .... " then i would say that this is already a high number but you also will find a thread where I explained why I have to post this
not long ago (maybe 1 year) used to say "impossible" on almost every problem they couldnt explaim... "creating this?... not possible!... creating that? ... not possible!"
so when i think that something is possible and ive an idea how to make it possible (no matter how hard it will be) then i will say that IT IS POSSIBLE
but for sure that does not neccessarily mean that i have the code already and tested everything to say I can release it without side effects and before i would release a cloak mod or another freelimits then i would like to be sure if it is no cheat and does not cause any problems
...but in the end it is still POSSIBLE (no matter what most others do think)

ive many unfinished (almost finished) concepts on my hdd... many new ideas but they wont be released until im sure that they are 100% working
but now the 2nd part of what you posted does make a problem: "i may look into it when i have the time"
and that is a very big problem since I work alone on crossfire and 4 other mods and a completly new "lancer"-game (spaceshooter) so time is very, very limited

and dont come up with the idea "hey release what you have so the community can finish that stuff" - that wont happen... not with a community that had to act like on this and a few other threads... attacking others because of different opinions (partly close to insults)
and if you say that i act like a child what do you say to those which state a crap like "either you give me your toy or we wont let you play with us and laugh at you"
yes i have something... and others have something similar... and we have it because of something called "hard work" and i consider this more mature than "give me your toy!"

finally i have so say something about the community because you all seem to be soooo involved here
LR is the heart of this community... so when do you guys start to help LR?
the way i see it it is always like this "we want this... we want that... give use that game..." but cmon lets be honest... what are you willing to give?
you wanted all those games on the poll.... who of you did really do something to get those games to be supported by LR? who of you worked for it?
I know im no LR admin anymore (because of how this "community" did act) but I tell you how the situation did and still does look like
you guys wanted the games.... dungeon siege... darkstar one... evochron... spaceforce... but in the end BP and I were the ones who had to work for you to make this possible... ive had to change the code of LR and collect all the information to create more than 50 new content pages for LR... and BP had to fill the galleries with content
if that is what you call "community" that 2 out of more than 24000 registered members have to work alone so you guys are happy and claim to be a community... well maybe then you can understand why exactly those 2 guys are not very happy with this community
ok a little correct i have to make.... there is a 3rd guy which did help and still does... he did it because he is a friend and i asked him if he really is willing to help because the game was his suggestion (nvm)

what i want to say is that you better use the word "community" a little bit more careful and that you should start to act like one first

Um, first of all, if someone happens to figure something out that you had already figured out but did not release the code is it not possible that that other person could have created it the same way you did?

Now, please, I do know that people steal things all the time, but not all the time. It could happen that someone got somethign working that you also have gotten working and yes, the IDS name and info would be different but the code itself could likeley be the same, but not copied. After all, FL is based on one language and and the the XML language is the same wether on your computer or someone elses computer.

Secondly, you go off about how 2 of the whatever number of community members did work on the web site when the community was asked by the admins what other games they would like. Forgive me, but would not partaking in the poll be community involvement?

Also, I highly doubt that BP would allow every member here access to modify content on these pages as that would be extremely ludicrous.

I am site admin of several sites out there and as admin, there comes a responsibility to maintain and update content and pages. This to me is a given when given a site admin position. So please, stop the whining about where the community was in the development of any of these pages.

Op, I truely like what you have done with your mods and with the pages here on TLR. Really and truely great work and I mean that, but please, the general community is not here to create pages and modify site code. Many members here have contributed new code for modding, new ideas to get the ball started on a new aspect of modding, and many of contibuted in many other ways. That is the idea behind a community. Poeple will help where and when they can.

I am done with this topic and will onyl post to the topic at hand from now on as this has gotten severly off topic and If I caused it, I apologise, but it was just in response to a request for information where the response I got was that it would not be shared or given out.

Well I guess your just ingorant of the point I was trying to show. Some people don't understand, which is ok.

BTW I do know what cloaking you are talking about.

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Um, first of all, if someone happens to figure something out that you had already figured out but did not release the code is it not possible that that other person could have created it the same way you did?

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possible that something is created in a similar way... but its unlikely that its done in exactly the same way... especially on complex stuff
ive no problem if someone does build something similar based on his own work... XTS build a licence mod and ppl said he just copied it from me but when i looked at it it was his own code... then someone (i cant remember who) build a container market... and i know that he build it out of his own coz ive followed this development and dropped some hints how he could improve it

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Secondly, you go off about how 2 of the whatever number of community members did work on the web site when the community was asked by the admins what other games they would like. Forgive me, but would not partaking in the poll be community involvement?

Also, I highly doubt that BP would allow every member here access to modify content on these pages as that would be extremely ludicrous.

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lets turn that around... i go to a site that i dont know and vote on a poll... is this community work then?
community work means to help the community... and in the mentioned case you want some others do something for the community... to add games and content... and maybe it would have had been your job to deliver content... to keep discussions running... to moderate boards of this forum (if you have the right)... to submit news... to get in contact with the developers of a new game
to say "i did 2 clicks on the poll and now i want that game" is not really what i would call "community"

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I am site admin of several sites out there and as admin, there comes a responsibility to maintain and update content and pages. This to me is a given when given a site admin position. So please, stop the whining about where the community was in the development of any of these pages.

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yeah right... responsibility
the LR admins have all the responsibility and the users have all the rights
in a real community everyone is responsible for its development not just one or 2 guys
maybe one day the admins will decide that they dont want to the community workhorse anymore and then the community might go down

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Op, I truely like what you have done with your mods and with the pages here on TLR. Really and truely great work and I mean that, but please, the general community is not here to create pages and modify site code. Many members here have contributed new code for modding, new ideas to get the ball started on a new aspect of modding, and many of contibuted in many other ways. That is the idea behind a community. Poeple will help where and when they can.

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ive never said something about coding pages or something like that
im just saying that LR does need every help it could get... no matter if its to provide information and news... or if its a donation so LR gets a new server... or if its discussions on the forum and moderation of boards

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the LR admins have all the responsibility and the users have all the rights
in a real community everyone is responsible for its development not just one or 2 guys maybe one day the admins will decide that they dont want to the community workhorse anymore and then the community might go down

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In a real community? What, like one with houses, kids and cars? In that case, the government is the equivalent of the admin here - the community can only do so much. The admins are the ones that have to make the rules and find ways to enforce them, while providing various services to the community.

Admins are the workhorses because they're the ones with all the editing rights and all the abilities. If the admins are overworked they can always ask for help. I haven't seen any requests from them on the main page lately, and since I'm not able to read minds, I didn't even think about offering to help.

I don't believe that junk about voting not being community involvement. What else can we do but share our opinion and discuss things? Not too much, unless you want to delegate some tasks to other people. I'm sure plenty here are willing to help out - but again, I haven't heard of them asking.

aha incredible... so nobody ever has asked for help?

I could show you several threads where help was requested... not to mention that the keyword should be "initiative"
but right now ppl prefere to push responsibility away and treat admins more like... hmm the best work i have in mind is "slaves"
but i tell you something... it will end like it did in the past... you ask for games... the admin does all the work... all the work he can actually do due to the limited available time and then those games will end up like dungeon siege or dso here... dead because the community didnt care ... didnt feel responsible
and one day FL wont be played anymore too because it is old... and then members will leave this place
and maybe then there will be some idiots (sorry im not pointing this to someone special but consider this the best word for it) which say the admins were responsible for all this... but in the end it was the community which was not willing to do its part

you guys wanted DSO and they you let it fall... you guys had many excused... no mp... no modding... bla bla bla
but there are modding boards and dso communities out there... boards which are quiete active... communities which showed that it is possible
and the same i can say about dungeon siege
but i guess the LR admins are responsible for the inactivity here... right?

Just a tiny post this time....

If i remember rightly DSO had quite a lot of objections from peeps who didn't like the look of/or generally didn't like the game. I was one. Also i don't remember anyone asking if we wanted DSO. If you can find the thread with people asking then please do so and i'll retract this statement. Dungeon Seige was here before i arrived so i can't comment.

But i will ask a question about the new games that are being put into TLR...have the admin/mod team or the members of the community who were interested advertised the fact that this website covers those games? ( i say all of us as for once i agree with Op,if we're covering games we ALL have to promote this website while playing the games MP wise to new friends we make on them)

This thread is all wrong, and the attitudes and claims made by some, completely appalling.

It goes against everything that so many others freely gave to make Lancers into the current location it is for modders, I'm shocked they claim to be such helpers or contributors.

Keep your own inventions, ideas and whatever - but don't expect praise, adoration, or anything more simply because you think you've "earned your dues" - it shows nothing more than an ego straining to be recognised. Recognition should be earned, not requested.

Seeing some great modders ripping strips is not what this place is about.
Seeing people claim what they've done here gives them rights is not what this place is about.
Seeing people claim they've helped for years when it's just plain BS is also not what this place is about. No name in here is familiar before mid to late 2004.

There were far more who were far better and more worthwhile contributors, than anyone in this thread - and to see peoples egos... gah, disgusts me.

I will not detract from the fact that some people in this thread haven't done fantastic things - that much is true, some things are truly remarkable and great. But that doesn't warrant anything more than an admiring nod for a feature. It doesn't make you better, or more worthwhile, than anyone else. As it is, I honestly don't remember any of your names helping out that much - so can all the "i helped more than you, therefore i've earned the right".

I DON'T CARE!

Either give freely, and be recognised for it - or don't, and hope that your server is the best ever.

Leave the real contributors and free givers to continue, and stop pretending.

While I agree that the conversation in this thread is sad at times, it is certainly entertaining.

I'm asking whoever locked this thread to reopen it.
Hopefully it will go somewhere and lead to bigger and better things to come.

from bp

Hey, SWAT-guy. If you are not going to share, then why do you even mention it? Just... shut up. Shut up about it. Don't be a childish attention whore and go all: "Oooh, I know, but it's a secret. I won't tell. I'm special. Come and look at me."

Really. I can accept you are not going to share your solution, that's your right. But don't be an ass about it.

Nice come back,but... I think your a bit late for it....

i said it because I WAS ASKED

that you turn up and start turning it to a personal lvl by being offensive does speak for yourself
and for sure you have no right to tell me what i have to do and what not