Makes sense.

>Isn't the same in any RPG? Take Diablo for example... you upgrade your >character with better skills . I'm not a big RPG player (althought I am >desperately waiting for Star Wars Galaxies) but I think FreeLancer could be >classified in the RPG/Space sim type.

>So yeah, FreeLancer is a RPG. Good one yes, but too short. I never played or >finished any other RPG, but I'm sure Diablo takes more than 15 hours before >you reach the max level...

On that note, I truly think Freelancer, albeit in need of many patches, could very well be like Diablo II. Yes an RPG, but more or less used as a great multiplayer. I have sat many hours in front of DII and can see how these two games in MP are very alike. My roomate and I have already made "rushing Chars" (godly sabre pilots, nomads, Kraken IIs, etc.) and spent some hours strategically bribing people to become more or less neutral with everyone. Its great to have all 4 Police houses happy, Corsairs, Outcasts, Bundshuch, Unioners all green. Anyhow, after a few patches, upgrades, mods, this game truly has in my opinion the means to become a strongly addicting MP realms type game. Yes, a weak RPG, but you gotta learn how to get godly somehow.

P.S. - You can easily beat all of DII in less than 15 hours, if you are playing in a clan on a realm and need a rush MOOOOOOOOOOOO

freelancer = owned and owned again

Bottom line: Since Firefly was canceled, I've been in a depression the size of Crator Lake. This game is pulling me out a bit. The truth is that I agree with you in most respects, but I don't think the game really offends sensibilites. I hate Grand Theft Auto because of the social pimples it produces, but I'll tell you that Freelancer, from what I've experienced thus far, is a far cry from beating a grandma to death for her car. I don't think anyone is truly innocent in the Freelancer universe. Be a character. You're a freelancer, beholden to no one and everyone is a mark.

I'd recommend finding a group of people that play regularly and you should defend each other as a convoy, instead of going it alone and worrying about not being able to trade. That's the way things would work in real life.

It would be nice to meet folks you could befriend.

Yes, befriending NPC´s would be so nice. I would love to have the choice to bring along a wingman in my vast explorings. Just to have him/her around would be nice in terms of company, even if its just an NPC,

I say that if freelancer would have been made a mmorpg it would have promoted role play much better. I magine connecting to a server that has 2000 players that can chat with you, hunt with you, explore the systems with you. Good thing I have a few friendshooked on the same game as me or else i would get bored to talk to myself.

But its still a great game

If you want something like Freelancer but in an MMORPG format, then you might want to take a gander at EVE, http://www.eve-online.com/. The game is currently in beta-testing (I'm a beta-tester) and looks to be AWESOME.

I know what you all mean, I have been playing RPG games for a log time now, and one thing I learned is that the best VideoGame RPG is the one who lets you do whatever you want (real life sim), with a reasonable, user-friendly interface and an interesting story... There are no good RPGs where you can't take "shortcuts" to become more powerful - faster. And that isn't necesserely the bad side of a game. I am only at the biggining of this game,and I want to do most jobs for the BH guild JUST because I like them and I won't be shooting at the police or anyone that isn't a criminal. So the problem is NOT in the game, you can play the game any way you like, so if you want to play for the most powerful ship or weapon, go ahead{you'll end up playing the game by a recepie like many other people)! I like my games as personal and original as possible (that is what R in RPG or FRP stands for).
SO play the game as YOU want it NOT as someone else says you should.

Many of my opinions have already been voiced in this thread, but i would just like to re-iterate. I find it absurd that anyone could say "I want to be a bad guy, but I don't want to kill other people to do it." But you have to realize, those people that "have never attacked you" are all ultimately murderers, and if you hang out on a patrol with those guys you'll realize that they'll probably encounter some enemy ships then and, surprise surprise, SHOOT at them. I mean come on this is freelancer, ships have guns for a reason. With reasoning like that how could you ever kill anything in a video game? Probably none of the enemies you've ever shot at have had a trial and then been convicted of a crime that deserves death. But that's not my point.

Also, please notice that there are plenty of people that will like you if you only attack others in self defense. You can play this whole game with a self-defensive attitude, making money trading, rather than taking jobs that require shooting, then taking missions where you get attacked before you ever attack. And also notice that you are never FORCED into shooting those that never attack you, so how can you say "I want this very rare and hard to come by item in the game that is not crucial for plot or story development but I don't want to do what I have to do to get it." How can you ever bring morals into a video game. I find it very realistic that in order to ally with a criminal faction one has to do criminal acts. Think about it. If you "camped" outside the xenos base and "killed" xenos for an hour, would you get a reputation as a guy that kills a lot of Xenos? Yes. Now would enemies of the Xenos that like people that kill a lot of Xenos allow you to land at their base and buy their ships? Yes. And, are there some people that will let you land at their base without killing a lot of xenos? Yes.

There is also a "neutral" market with the Zoners. They have no allies and have no enemies. They allow criminals and police to dock at their bases. Of course, the Zoner's don't have a complete market, but then again, what black market does?

I also don't understand how someone can complain about the "forced" killing of other people in the game and complain about it being immoral while they say there should be some way of stealing ships or even using an illegal, criminal market to acquire it. Come on, if you are going to complain about this game being immoral at least stick to your cause. Stealing is immoral too isn't it.

Danielsan said more than once in this thread that RPG's "should have" this or "demand" that, but that' totally your own perspective. The definition of an RPG is exactly what it is, a game where the player plays the role of another person. And also, if a game requires you to act a way that you would not normally act in order to acquire an item that you would not have acquired given your "normal" way of acting, then I would call that role playing. I would call it Outcasts having better technology than the rest of Sirius, and in order to tap their technology you would have to MAKE YOUR CHARACTER become accepted by these outcasts. If the only way to do that is to kill their enemies, and you're not OK with that, then perhaps YOUR CHARACTER is not made to be an outcast, and thus should not be able to expirence the advantages and disadvantages that come with being friendly with that organization. The fact that you're acting "out of character" is not the game's fault, it's your fault, so accept it or don't do it, but please don't say the developers made a mistake.

I want to notice that in RPG you can't get all the equip or items or something else unless you will play all the characters available. Every character has it's own limitations. The same in freelancer. If you not Outcast - you can't get Outcast's equipment. This is character limitation. One freelancer's plus is that you can change your character type "on the fly".
Same thing about exploration. You can't explore all area, because of some areas controlled by hostile people. You can't be a godlike and kill horde of enemies, can you.
And about bribes. They said about hack my record and correct it, not about real reputation correction. And this is looks quite right. Because I don't think that all people know me personally. The only thing they could know that I'm Freelancer Alpha One Dash One, and no more. So they should makes decisions looking in their own database. if these db's hacked - than I'm not hostile.This is bloodless way. The other way is looks right too. I was hostile, but then I change my mind and fight with enemies of that faction which I wanna see my allies. I think that you on their place can forgive me and be my friend in that case.
That's all I want to say. May be...

@#%#$&.... till now u still donno what this game is all about? u know wat title this game is? FREELANCER, freelancer can do anything u want, so what's with the conscience... i wanna do anything, blow anythiing and that's wat freelancer is. u take the pleasure, u take the risk, all by own

For me the term Role Playing Game is a very broad one, and quite overused as a selling point for most games. Heck, in todays market if someone made Galaxa, they could market it at a RPG, mostly just based off the fact you get to upgrade your ship.

That said, Role Playing in any game is strictly up to the imagination and willingness of the individual to Role Play. Some ppl are very serious about adopting all the trapping of the character they are playing. even to the point of trying to reproduce a language, reacting as only that char would react and not the player.

Most I have run into are in the middle of the field, they will adopt the RP for their char. as long as it does not force them to go to far out of their way to keep the RP aspect going.

Some don't roleplay at all, they take the pure game approach.

As stated above there are also the number crunchers. This is a group that seems to be able to fall mostly into groups 2 and 3 above. If they have a gun that does 1000 damage per second made by only nice races inc. but the only evil races inc. devolopes a gun that can do 1000.001 damage per second, they will find a way to get that gun, even if playing a only nice races inc. police officer. hehe

Freelancer has the capability to be able to be played by all 3, but I believe only the pure/semi roleplayers will stick with the game much past obtaining lvl 38.

Then we come into the faction systems, I really do not believe there can be any realistic way of covering faction in any computer type game. In real life, no matter how friendy a general group might be to you, tick off the right person and that friendly group will not seem so friendly anymore, hehe

It might be better to allow ppl to select a group at the outset fo the game, as in military, police, pirate, radical, trader. And make it a major pain to make any change within this group.

Anyway have taken up much more room that I had intended, just my spin on things, there is very little "realism" in Freelancer, not unlike any other space/fantasy game. The rest is added by the player.

Look i know all about RPG's, ive played and have been playing EverQuest for 4 years. For you of those who dont know thats the most popular RPG game of all time. But come on guys there are people that like to play games cause there fun and dont have to act out the roles just cause its a RPG game. On EQ hardly anyone actually Role Played and for those who did. We thought that person had serious mental prob *a lot of ppl do on EQ trust me*. Just have fun guys it really doesnt matter, if you like to Role play go ahead but dont complain cause others dont.

This is my particular take on this issue, having started an MP server and invited 20 of my closest friends join.

Starting from ground zero as a pure trader, I was able to work my way up to purchasing the Dromedary, decking it out and leveling all the way up to 38 with 20 million creds in my bankroll without firing one SINGLE hostile shot as an aggressor.

As a trader only, that is completely believable to me in the universe's fictional storyline and framework. I'm a merchant making profit by trading with, and against, ALL sides.

Of course, that changes when you become a fighter pilot as the PRIMARY job of a fighter pilot, is of course, to engage hostile forces in combat. Hostile forces...enemies...people that want to see your vaporized atoms floating all over the cosmos. It is an inherent part of the job that I accepted when I chose the role of a fighter pilot. It can NOT be gotten around.

Now, to address SP...the above trader neaturality CAN be done...but only AFTER the SP campaign is complete and you spend that vast storehouse of credits bribing people to be neurtal again. However, that makes PERFECT sense given the story arc that is presented through the game sets you against almost ALL the factions at any given time throughout the story. Of course, that is not going to magically revert back to pre-SP campaign but is, instead, intended to let you continue the life of your character AFTER his actions...ergo...dealing with the consequences of your actions.

I read this whole thing, but its fun to cause chaos by destroying transport convoys, and wiping out police patrols. Besides, the pirates(disregarding the rogues) have much cooler ships, which automatically makes them good, and factions like the Kusari and Bretonian militaries really shouldn't be uglifying space in those ships they are issued. From my perspective, I'm helping the universe by ridding it of ugly ships. I would never destroy a Dagger, but those ugly Drone Freighters and Crusaders are free game Anyways, if you follow the "good" people around long enough, they have no better morals than the outlaw factions. Either way you can't win, and by being a Freighter pilot with a good rep with the "good" factions you are assisting them in their mindless slaying of the outlaws, whose only crime is often their reputation.

Edited by - radioactiveyeti on 23-03-2003 06:58:03