I remember hearing a rumor on crete about famous Corsair ship designer who, thanks to cardamine, had just passed away, at 170 years old! If they had good ship designers who could devote so much of such a long life to mastering their trade, and if they did have alien tech to helpout with the hull strength, it doesn't surprise me that the criminals ships could be so powerful.

But as for the comment that the Corsairs and Outcasts didn't have to worry about budgets and taxes, i'm a little skeptical: they both have populated capital planets! I don't know what the populations of Crete and Malta are, but both have been inhabited for almost 800 years, so you can assume that there are quite a few people. their's got to be some sort of government or ruling family or council, and it's a safe bet that they have taxes like any other stable government would.

Once you think about it, Aren't Liberty ships better than other ships? I mean, think of the cost of the ship rather than the ship itself. The Sabre is $558 550, while the Defender is $12 260. Doing a little math...:

558550 / 12260 = 45.55872756933

So for the cost of one Sabre, you get 45-5/9 (Approx.) Defenders. Now would you put your money on a Sabre, or nearly 4 dozen Defenders? I'm not talking you in a Sabre and 45 NPCs, I'm talking about pilots of equal skill. THIS is the reason that Liberty is such a strong nation and THIS is why they don't get their asses kicked. THEY are strong, THEY can handle a central position, because THEY can attack or defend (hehe, Defender, get it? ) with sheer numbers . For every Maltan Sabre that appears, you can bet that Liberty can supply enough ships to tear it to pieces.

And for arguments sake, let's say that the Maltans send 30 or so Sabres to take on Liberty. It is mentioned in a rumor that Liberty has enough budget to war with two houses, but let's keep this in equal numbers.

(30 * 558550) / 12260 = 1366.76182708

So if the Maltans send in 30 Sabres, Liberty with counterattack with 1336 Defenders, and with THOSE numbers, I'd be worried about whether or not Malta will exist after a war occurs.

Liberty has always been my fav house, but i allways thought they were too weak, now that you put i like that, my faith is renewed! i wont look at a defender the same again. 1336 defenders, now thats just class. lets all join the navy!

-Therefore i am

Heh, the cost of the ships in terms of money might be incredibly different, but I doubt the material cost to actually build them is much different, however Liberty would have access to more -- the Corsair fighters, for example, are built from scraps they find. The Liberty fighters are built from materials they mine, or buy. So Liberty, combined with the various shipyard facilities they have direct access to, and the Battleships and Cruisers the have, would probably be able to pummel ten Titans within a short amount of time.

That said, have you ever taken a Titan, loaded up with the most advanced, expensive Corsair weaponry you can fit to it, and gone loopy in Liberty? I have, just for giggles. My shields weren't damaged, at all -- and I was attacking things like battleships. Similar activities in Rheinland only cost me minor shield drain. And I was attacking EVERYONE, no allies for me. Certainly does make you wonder...

But, as everyone has been saying, the Corsairs in particular are at war with similarly equipt Bounty Hunters, Red Hessians and Outcasts. Given we've already established they have trouble getting materials for their ships, and only one shipyard that I know of (or is that the Outcasts? It's been a while...), combined with the multiple-front war they're waging I doubt they could spare even one or two of their V. Heavy Fighters. However, should all the Hispania decendants put aside their differences, the tables could be significantly turned...

"If it aint on fire, you haven't shot it up bad enough yet" - my old teacher on Planet Housten.

It is possible to fly starfliers against titans and win just as a fact

-~-~-~-~
There is no Silicon Heaven! But where do all the calculators go ?

You could no more evade my wrath... than you could your own shadow!

Sure... sure... most things are possible, if only improbable :-p like winning a lotterey perhaps?


Edited by - Visconti on 3/9/2004 11:05:38 AM

Back on the topic of Naval power being near non-existant, I must say, the apparent lack of battleships astounds me.

Sure, you get a mod with Battleship encounters, you get more (Hell, Rebalance is full of the damn things), but 4 battleships per house? That's pathetic!
Naval forces are supposed to be the major line of defence for a house, the peak of their military strength, yet when I passed the Rheinland Military fleet in the Sigmas (Story mission, can't remember which one) I destroyed BOTH battleships SINGLEHANDEDLY in a DRAGON! Military my backside!

Like it was said, the Navy should be a force to fear if you cross them. I remember when I first started MP, it was all too easy to take cardamine from Magellan to New York, and sell it for ridiculous profits, passing Naval forces, Police, the like.

So, my major problems - Liberty Police should have CD's. Yes, there's balance, but surely if you're hauling cardamine and you're found, you should be forced to fight?

Second - More battleships. FAR MORE battleships. Have them on random patrols around the houses. (I actually noticed, however, that when you pass through Rheinland in the story, they have way more battleships than everyone else. Eh? How does that figure? As far as I could count, they had less shipyards!)

Third - More house ships. Three per house? Eh? Hasn't anyone on the DA team heard of the words 'variety' or indeed 'choice'?

Fourth - More weapons platforms, especially by Jumpgates. Surely then, a criminal is forced to use Jump holes, instead of being able to slip through jumpgates? Also, if a planet can refuse to let you dock if it's hostile, why can;t jumpgates? There's most likely a jumphole nearby that'll take you to the system you want to go.

That's military strength! 4 battleships. Pffft.

There should be more battleships, and houses should be more deadly when you're enemy with them. I mean, you can waltz through Kusari or Rheinland with a Class 10 Positron shield and barely feel anything, but how realistic is that? Think of it from the house's point of view. Your worst enemy just went right through your territory and you couldn't do a thing. That's not very fair.

You Will Never And I Mean Never Beat A Titan.Sabre,Or Eagle In A Starflier And U Better Trust Me On That One Only If Its Mp And They Let U Win.

Yeah that'll sure NEVER happen

Sheesh

Hello, Shieldripper + Plasmas + Greater Manveur >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> j00r ar0ur

VHFs SUCK period ok, don't bring it up again.

As it's been said before the games rushed, the choice ain't as big as it could have been, the story not long etc etc

VHFs DO NOT suck.
They're just special....I)

Yes for the special needy

VHF dont suck at all, its depends on the pilot.
VHF are good at what they do just like LF are good at what they do, its all just a matter of opinion.

-Therefore i am

I think someone here said it best: "As the enviroment gets harder, the tougher the ships are", or something like that - and it is 100% true. In a harsh enviroment bunch of sole survivors, like Corsairs, have no other choice then to root out everyone who is weak - and ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE (just remember their man/womanhood test - go into radiation field unshielded and bring back an artifact !). Also, one must also remember the fact that Corsairs had nearly 5 centuries to organise themselves from a starving lot of people, who were even eating each other in order to stay alive, to a strong military organisation. On the other hand, Outcasts made early discovery of cardamine, which was a winning lottery ticket for them; they got filthy rich from the drug business and that helped them to build their own raiding fleet from the scraps of Hispania.
Still, one should NEVER underastimate the power of LF What i mean is, if you ever tried to fight a Patriot or a Startracker you certainly noticed the fact that you still need some tame to take them down - why is it so ? The answer isn`t superior shieldingbut excellent agility and small dimensions of spacecraft. Add large formations of these ships to that equasion and you`ll get (at least) a headache... That is the main reason why 2 Sabres, even if they were flown by Oswald Boelcke & Max Immelmann, could`n take out entire Liberty fleet, which has great numbers of Defenders, Patriots, light cruisers and a whole bunch of capitol ships.