PT II

This must all be taken with a grain of salt as it is just theory and it is grossly playing with the laws of physics and what we do 'know' about black holes. I tried approaching the event horizon but to no avail it is a background image and went off the map. This might dually be explained by the one theory of 'spaggetification' when approaching black holes (i.e. as one approaches the gravity is greater on the near side then on the far side of an entity thus pulling it and stretching it out as well as the time slows down as one approaches the center, keep in mind these are gross exaggerations of the actual principles but at the same time the general principles of astro-physics were greatly simplified for
the game (it is still a game after all)) and with that disgusting show of the alleged 'black-hole' in the system I shall move on.

Initially I thought Planet Primus was a witty reference to Planet of the Apes and the whole system was just another Easter Egg (like the Digital Anvil Advertising billboards in cities if one considers those eggs.) After browsing the forums here I followed a lead (thanks Warp Phantom) to a short film entitled "Monkey vs. Robot". I then assumed that the egg was a combination of this film/planet of the apes. But upon further thought, I thought this might be The Order vs. The Dom Kavash.

Whoa. Big Statement there. I'm trying to tell you that the monkeys are in fact the Dom Kavash? This may not be as an absurd statement as it seems. The majority of the Freelancer plot was changed halfway through development, so essentially anything flies, just depends on who says so. Initially the Nomads were an alien race that destroyed the human solar system (see original intro movie). This idea was latter scrapped, and the Nomads were created as Guardian race to watch over the Sirius system in the Dom Kavash's absence. We are given no indication of what the Dom Kavash actually look like. For all we know, they really are a bunch of humanoid monkeys. The programmers had artistic license here. Ockham's (sp?) Razor suggests that if there are multiple answers to a solution then the simplest is most likely the correct one. We are introduced with three races. The Humans, the Nomads (created by the Dom Kavash), and the Dom Kavash themselves. It would be simpler to say the Dom Kavash are the monkeys rather then introduce a fourth intelligent race.

The Order was set up to watch over mankind, protecting him, and thus the Nomads are enemies. But the Nomads could have veritably been created by the Dom Kavash and gotten out of control in their absence. There is no indication that the Order is or isn't against the Dom Kavash. The Dom Kavash is an ancient race, predating man by 50 million years, it is somewhat feasible although a stretch to say that the Dom Kavash predate man as Descendents from primates much like man and man was descended from similar species planted on earth by the Dom Kavash.

As for the Samura tag on the planet Primus I decided that that was merely another unfinished misnomer. However just for curiosity I befriended Samura, in the process loosing the favor of all my allies, to return to Primus and see if this would have any effect on the planet, and the job board. Sadly it did not, and I launched a retaliation upon Samura for this deceit. I now had no allies and hated disliked by most of the galaxy, however to my surprise upon returning to the Primus system with no allies to 'retire' myself, I discovered that this fully unlocked the Order Base on Gammu. This perturbed me, as I have gone through some of the .ini's and there is nothing regarding the Order as a faction. My hypothesis though is that having gained a majority of disfavor in the Sirius System this triggered an 'unlocking' of some of the functions on Gammu. The features of the unlocked Gammu include a rumor pool that I believe was just recycled from the Order ship 'Osiris' and a place where I could buy the 'Anubis' again.

Real Useful.

But it still was a rather interesting discovery. Granted the whole theory that the Monkeys are actually the Dom Kavash has little ground, but due to the 'rushed' nature of this project it becomes evident that Microsoft told somebody to stop worrying about their Easter eggs and finish the main single player campaign, also it would be wiser to leave out the Dom Kavash and the Hyper gates for a sequel or add-on, because revealing the Dom Kavash as a race of monkeys would cripple the feasibility of plot development in the future.

dang good reading liked the info and possibilty
good job

good work

read a bit, but too tired to continue, will read the rest when i wake up

An interesting side note, I found a cloaking device on the Anubis I purchased from Gammu. Now if only I can figure out how to activate it.

Hey, I havn't gotten very far at all, but I still read the spoilers concerning things like the unkown systems and scenery and stuff that doesn't really spoil things too bad. Anyways my question is: What is the physical apears of the Nomads like? I'd be really disapointed if it was classic alien (Kinda hoping for a more bulky and physicaly dominant alien to also be the advanced alien).

The Nomads aren't just part of the easteregg systems but part of the storyline as well. So it's definately a spoiler for you. I recommend not getting any information about them untill you've seen them for yourself.

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"Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles
which every man of every faith can embrace. " - Murphy MacManus

Dude, we KNOW we cant have a true black hole. People made a rumor that there was one in there (BECAUSE there is one, but its not a real one, its jsut one of those (2d) images you see in space, its at the bottum of Omicron-Alpha)
but its not a REAL in game black hole, and everyone fails to understand that. Thats where the rumor came from, mostly.

Secondly, THIS GAME ENGINE CANT SUPPORT THE BACK OF A BLACK HOLE. I typed in the physical calculations me and a friend of mine made, plus stuff we used from the internet (its amazing how little about black holes are on the internet.)

We tried to put the number of how the gravity would work, into a system folder, and when we loaded up the game, the system came up with an error. The reason for this? The black holes Physical and Mathimatical properties are too dynamic and intense for this engine. No game engine can support it, because we dont know how they work for sure up close.

If we were to just say that there is a point, at which the black hole will start pulling you, and the gravity at which it pulls you is around 1.991 x10(power)15-30(depending on the star that supernova'd) you would have to also ahve an EXACT mass for the ships in the game. Now since the mass of the sun is 1.991 x ten (power) 30, we just figured that the mass of a ship would be around, 0.00000000000000000000000000000001 compared to the mass of the sun. Now, one last problem. This game doesnt use Mass as a factor when determining movements, that means that you cant put in a blackhole that would act anything like a real one, because the engine would interprut it as an Extreme Gravity Zone ( Like stars in the game have if you cheat and get through their carona ) but 100,000,000 times more gravity. The engine cant figure out something that large.

Also, Im not sure what you are trying to prove about black holes, besides the fact that their not in the game.

I mean no one had a solid reason, but here is one, the games engine, eve with modding, would requires lines and lines and lines of code to allow it to understand the way blackholes work.

If you read Stevin Hawkings book on black holes, you will thus understand this.

I'll try and find a mathimatical equation... Mass in kg 1.989E+30

Thats the best example of the sun, but the mass of a black hole is only 100 Million times that, making a blackhole Mass in kg 1.989E+38. THAT means, that roughly, it would require... More lines of code than freelancer, Starlancer, and wingcommander all together to make an engine capable of "evaluating" What a blackhole does, using different objects (space station, Ship, Planet, Star).

Now I didnt say it wasnt possible to EMULATE it, buts its not possible to make a black hole in a game environment, it would litterally deny a game physics.

But ya.. onto the Monkeys.

NO.. dont bring up something like that. Their not the Dom Kavash. They would not make the Alien Race that created the Nomad, MONKEYS.

Its just an easter egg they made to have fun, thats all, dont get any bright idea's, Microsoft wouldnt make such a stupid plot line. They might not be able to make games well, but their good with plots, and their not going to make the plot that far fettched.

And there is no way to activate them, Cloaking Device's arnt buyable game files.

Many people have already looked them up in the game, their just not there to buy (reason is because their not a REAL inventory item, if you scan a Rienland ship (ones that cloaked) they dont show the device at all). That means its not in the game as an item, its just there as an NPC effect, its not an ability, it just makes their 3D model's Skin disappear, making them invisible.. its only simple 3D artistics.



Edited by - Zenic on 02-04-2003 23:34:20

I fail to see your point.

As for the cloaking device that was April Fools, due to their high demand.

The 'black hole' was just something to point out. As in one could see the star being sucked towards it, and one could see a possible event horizen...nothing more. I made it clear that one could not reach the 'black hole', it was simply a background entity. Whether or not it actually is a black hole is not a issue.

And you have no proof that the Dom Kavash are not monkeys. In fact the only evidence there is supports that the Dom Kavash ARE monkeys (sophisticated ones albeit.) The information revealing who the monkeys actually were or if the entire system was simply an egg was not included into the actual plot. I however don't believe that it was added as extra, I merely believe the system was a device ment to be used in the original or one of the earlier plots created for Freelancer, but its use was not neccessary (just like Nomads blowing up Earth was not neccessary), and thus they left the system in there, unfinished and possibly slightly tweeked. And in all honesty, with the plot twists this game impliments, the monkeys could have veritably been the Dom Kavash. I mean up until a majority of Single Player, one has no clue to the existance of an alien race that still lives, let alone their overseers.

But these were all just observations if not speculations but most certainly NOT facts that I was presenting before you as to "Lay down as The Law" concerning this matter in Freelancer. Calm down man. It was just a simple annalysis of an Unknown system, a system which is unknown for a reason, and this was just trying to possibly shed some light on the issue.

Edited by - John Bown on 03-04-2003 01:04:14

John brown, i am impressed with your detailed hypothosis about the game and the "Unknown" systems.. It would seem very reasonable that the planets of Primus and Gammu are actually being sucked into a black hole.> it certaintly looked like it to me.. But, it doesn't seem finsihed.. I traveled 100k past that sun.. which took awhile i might add, and I got no closer to the black hole background than when i started.. But I do have a Theory of my own that concers with one of yours... I got a first impression that the Unknown system with Primus in it, was not completed... for one thing, as you said the buttons malfunctioned, when you enter the bar on Gammu, you lose some options.. And also, you mentioned how the robots said they knew you accept for one.. I can help you with one thing, that one robot isn't special.. none of the robots knew me, because I hadn't talked ot any robots in the game. ((hard to explain how i accomplished that)) but what that DOES tell me is this.. First, I noted that the planets history was from a planet in the gallileo system i believe.. you noticed that too, then you have robots, that are from different planets, but are on gammu too as different personalities, yet they still know you?? I call that emergency fix up.. I also, noticed the hover rings for a landed craft, but i don't think it's because their isn't a ship there, I think it's because, their was SUPPOSED to be a ship there, they just didn't program it in.. If you buy a class 10 vessel, you might notice you can hold a class 10 turrent.. have you ever seen one? I havn't, neither has my friend. he pointed that out to me, the signs are very clear, you got a sun that doesn't kill you, game bugs... and on top of that, single player doesn't feel as though it ends... the story has no ending, yes you kill the nomads, but the captain of the Osiris asks you to be the eyes and ears in liberty.. and that's it ?? What kinda ending is that? And what about the Hispania, my friend told me you can find out it's history of how it got ot it's bad state by looking at the planet info of Crete and Malta.. which is good, but it's not the whole story.. My theory is this... I believe they didn't have time to finish the game.. There are so many clues to show that this game has missing pieces.. that are obviously suppose to be there, but are left out.. There is no reason for that unless they ran out of time to put them there.. Even in the primus planet system, those spiky things you havta dodge? they end in a perfect line, about 40k towards that sun.. What else was suppose to be in that system? Why are nomads respawning from nothing, where do they come from? I believe all this was left out, take the other Unknown system, it's a big pink blob of nothing.. one sun, and that's it.. nomads everywhere, BUT, I did notice one thing.. The background of that system seemed close to the one in single player, where you enter the huge sphere.. did they leave that out too? I think this game is unfinished, I think they had to throw it out there fast, and put robots on Gammu with the ones from around the galaxy as a quick fix... It's obvious it's not done, the planet info fro primus and gammu prove that.. WHy else would it be the history of another planet? I just have one question though... You think they will make a sequel, to fix all these unleft things... or will the game remain in it's unfinished state forever. o.0 lets us hope there is light at the end of the tunnell... dun dun dun.

very nicely said.

And as you said, the more I play Freelancer, the more it does feel that the game was unfinished. I have been pondering this for a few days, and it seems there are so many details that would imply that the game was shiped out before completion. A lot of effort was invested into the Corsair system (as well as outcasts) and much more 'backstory'. No other criminal groups have near the depth that these two have. Probably cut out of the plot. Microsoft probably gave Digital Anvil some "persuasion" from new management to push out this product.
There are so many nit-picky things that would imply this. The other unknown system seems without purpose. The whole 'hypergates' that were activated in the last missions are never heard from again...supposedly allowing one to cross from one corner of the universe to the other. The Order missions do feel cut off. The Nomads are not destroyed, surely they could just as easily come back and retry their same plan, after all the 'sudden' shift in energy that occured from activating these never to be seen hypergates had no effect upon their actual occurance in the system.
Also the very nature of the project was almost too ambitious. It is quite clear what the game needs in general (i.e. the whole expansion pack hoax - that fit every player's dreams for the game.) And it seems that Digital Anvil knew all this from the begining, but was bullied to realise it, even if it wasn't by Microsoft (unlikely) they certainly must of felt a need to realise this some 4-5 year project and not be another Duke Nukem Forever.
Yet other games have taken longer development, Final Fantasy VII comes to mind, which was seven years in the making.
Perhaps I have digressed to a ramble and you have already lost my original intent in the garble so I think I will stop for the mean time.

Edit: Also many of the rumor pools imply there was something more. Like the fact that the plant which Cardamine is 'processed' from was developed by an ancient race. Maybe im wrong here but to my recollection they never identified the sabatuer of the Hispania other then "some other nation".

Edited by - John Bown on 03-04-2003 03:59:20

The two unknown systems definately did feel off-place. It is likly that they are "easter eggs" but it is possible that they were converted to easter eggs after Freelancer began being pushed into an early release. The development team may have just had to cut that whole section of the game and leave the two systems as extras. I believe some one mentioned that the sun on the corner of the map was proof of this; I agree. It almost seems as though they didn't have enough time to program the entire system....just a thought.

That was so deep, I think Grey matter's oozing out

But here's a conundrum to ponder:

How long did it take for the Sleeper ships to get to the Sirius Sector? All I know is that Freelancer is set 800 years after Starlancer, and it seems that the Sirius Sector has been settled for a long time...

aren't you the guy that hates freelancer?

LOL, someone's getting notorious,

As many has already pointed out, Microsoft probably pushed digital anvil to release the game early thus with many unfinished parts

and with the broken storyline, it might also very well be its left that way for an expansion, but IMHO, the storyline definitely was completed

the only ones that were rushed were the unknown systems and a few little flaws here and there (hey, no one is perfect)