Yes John, I really do feel that's what happend.. It's so sad, it didn't seem like they needed much more time to finish the extras which this game so rightfully deserves.. the only thing I noticed about the big pink unknown system, is that Nomads drop weapons there MUCH more often and the one of Primus... HOWEVEr I do wish to ask, i heard there were a total of 4 UNKNOWN systems.... is this true?

I suppose; technically there are four unknown systems; the two in the omicron gamma and alpha systems, and then the two which are visited in the SP missions. However, the ones from teh SP missions are not available after you've beaten the Campaign, so they really shouldn't be counted.

Who said I hate the game? I just think the plot is a bit more than convoluted, that's all. I need a computer job so I can play it more, because one hour a night isn't enough to really enjoy it after work...

BTW, thanks for the date on Liberty's planetfall. I was wondering about the time it took, because there isn't really info around telling about the time it took to travel, just that the game is set 800 years after Starlancer.

The biggest signs of an unfinished/rushed game to me where:

1. All ships max out at 300 units/time. The largest freighter and sleekest ship can only go the same speed?

2. If you are behind some ships that are in cruise mode, you can click on the formation icon, and 'catch up' to them, although you are all going 300 units/time.

3. Planets have only one entrance in and out. All the traffic that would be required to support a planet, and there is only ONE entrance/exit? Some platforms have 8 or more docks...

4. Prices never, ever change. I wish real life was like that.

5. The afore mentioned 'ending' wasn't really an end to anything.

6. The enemy may be outnumbered 30 - 2, and not only do they not run, but they see you as the biggest threat.

7. The balance of power. Liberty ships are so weak, the Corsairs from the far east portion of the map would have no issue taking over the whole system. How Liberty can defend itself with level 4 ships is beyond me.

There is more, but my sinuses are kicking in for some reason, so I am going to go pass out. But, with all this, I played the game until I had the Sabre with all Nomad weapons ( and two level 9 Wyrm IIs) and became untouchable. It became too boring to go on. Having said that though, I just started playing it again, but this time I am building up money before I go on the missions...

There would be one very large obstacle facing someone trying to model a black hole in Freelancer: there doesn't seem to be any trace of gravity in the physics engine. The landing cutscnes are scripted, and you can sit outside suns and planets without any movement. The game's lite-sim design doesn't really call for it, I guess...

Yeah ... Now that I think about it Privateer had a dynamic economy way back in what '94.

Another thing that makes me think yhat they rushed the game is that there is no joystick support ... imagine combinging joystick flight control with mouse aiming ... I really like the way the guns track to the crosshair.

The game may have been rushed, but some of you are really asking way too much from a 1 CD game. Black holes? Full physics engines including gravity modeling? Breath in... breath out. ;

Also, many examples for the game not being finished, could also be described as a judgement call. Programming takes time, lots of it, and most of the things that got axed in Freelancer seemed to have been axed early on in game development.

A) Joystick support: The entire menu system in flight is based around the mouse with almost no useability with a joystick. Clearly, joysticks were never in their frame of mind.
One enterance: There really is no need for multiple entrances. Notice the docking moors for larger ships. Also, the planets arent exactly to scale to begin with.
C) Catching up in cruise: This was basically the only way for the game to proceed in some places. How else would you be able to use the Formation button? You cant expect ships which are on a preprogrammed solo misson (like they sometimes are in the game) to simply wait for you to form up, as much of the single player is time sensitive.
D) Speed similarities: This seems to have been axed early on, as there is no mention of speed in any menus, except for in the thruster menu, It looks to me like thrusters were the only thing with different speeds. Its infinitly simpiler to program the game if all of the ships have the same speeds.
E) Balance of power: This is a game... you had to start out somewhere and work your way up. The liberty rouges couldnt be flying titans when you cruised in with your starflier as level 1. Its a game, there is no balance of power.
F) The non-ending: TONS of games have this kind of ending. Clearly, Freelancer was looked at from the start as an open ended game designed for the possiblity of future add ons. I think thats great.
G) Unknown sectors: They are just easter eggs... i see it from the other side of the coin. I dont think they were working on a longer plot, and converted them to easter eggs. I think they finished the plot, and then realised that an Order and a Nomad homeworld would be a nice easteregg, but the game shipped before they finished. No big deal, they were just easter eggs to start.

Was it rushed, maybe. But only very very slightly. All games are lightly pushed to meet their deadlines, and i dont see any scars of a major push.

guy's chill a bit the fact is that all humans in the sirius sector are people from the sol system and got to this system in the five sleeper ships the hispania was one of them and from that ship the corsairs and the outcast came the will never fight to take over the system because they are somting like freinds of the other ships. in fact the only reason wy they atack transports is that they don't have the nececery recources because when the arived the best spots where already taked by the other colinists

i am only atacking the people who want to kill me....

There's plenty of usability for a joystick.
It would be much easier to control your angle of attack with a joystick while being free to poke at the menus, aim and fire weapns with the mouse cursor.
I'm sure that in Chris Roberts original concept it was all there. I think one of the main reasons they dropped joystick support was so that the game would be more appealing to a wider audience. The game controls OK with the mouse ... I don't hate it ... but aspect adjustment would be much more robust with a proper flight control. Heck, half the fun of a flight sim is rollin', turnin' and divin' ,,, just like the song ....

Aces High

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Its infinitly simpiler to program the game if all of the ships have the same speeds

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That would a horrid excuse for not doing something. I think I will try that on my project manager today. "I know this needs a payment engine, but think how simple transactions become without them!"

Besides, this isn't something you should skimp on, every flight sim since...well all of them have had ships/aircraft with variable speeds.

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There really is no need for multiple entrances

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You are correct. There is no need for any entrances. Why have them other than to delay you? They are a bottleneck in the game, and they add nothing.

Balance of Power - I agree with your reasons, however there are ways to fix this. Look at Tachyon: The Fringe. Everyone in the galaxy improved at the same rate because the weapons were being developed at the same time you were playing. As new weapons became available to you, they became available to all.

On the point of joysticks, I don't really care. I was worried upon first hearing about it, but the mouse implementation makes it easy to fly. And since the 'sim' part is more FPS than flight model, it makes sense to use an FPS setup.

As for the non-ending, you are right again. It was designed as an open ended game. However, that was one of the cuts to it's development. It is not an open non-linear game. After you finish the SP campaign, there is nothing else to do but explore, which is only fun once. After you have explored everything and gotten a level 10 ship, then what?

With Privateer and Tachyon, I played those long after I finished the plot lines. With Freelancer, after my second time throught the SP, I don't know if I will pick it up again afterwards, except for a really good mod.

Oh, one thing I left off my initial list :
8. No other missions! The only missions you can pick up are kill him, capture him, kill these ships, kill this platform, kill him & pick/destroy the cargo. What a violent universe.

Here is my theory for the lack of price fluctuation. Because of all the death (see point and with constant suicides (people flying right into the atmosphere), the birth rate is equal to the death rate, so demand and supply stay the same!

Edited by - dennismaul on 04-04-2003 17:31:13

I was actually more upset by the apparent lack of mouse invert than the lack of a joystick (although admittedly both would be nice ...) I kept on going up when I wanted to go down, etc. -- messed me up for quite some time

Hiya. 2 things to remember...
a) the lack of joystick support was probably INTENTIONAL, not axed for lack of time. You must remember Microsoft's line of joysticks that they offer support for in almost all of their games (see MW4: Mercenaries etc.).

b) the same speed engine is, IMO, just for balancing. however I would have loved to see "specialized" ships, like for example a Heavy Fighter with good guns but less armor and cargo speed for the ability to outrun nearly every other ship.

This is my Eagle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

As for the Samura tag on the planet Primus I decided that that was merely another unfinished misnomer. However just for curiosity I befriended Samura, in the process loosing the favor of all my allies, to return to Primus and see if this would have any effect on the planet, and the job board. Sadly it did not, and I launched a retaliation upon Samura for this deceit. I now had no allies and hated disliked by most of the galaxy, however to my surprise upon returning to the Primus system with no allies to 'retire' myself, I discovered that this fully unlocked the Order Base on Gammu. This perturbed me, as I have gone through some of the .ini's and there is nothing regarding the Order as a faction. My hypothesis though is that having gained a majority of disfavor in the Sirius System this triggered an 'unlocking' of some of the functions on Gammu. The features of the unlocked Gammu include a rumor pool that I believe was just recycled from the Order ship 'Osiris' and a place where I could buy the 'Anubis' again.

^ originally posted by John Brown...

Dude why did you lie? I had already gone out and got cool with samura to try to buy from the monkey planet... when I read this I went out and kept attacking them for 30 minutes b4 they hated me.. I went back to Gammu, and its the same as b4. Thank you for waisting my time.

Your all too smart for me...

*I hate my old signature, so I changed it...to this*