I've always thought that every ship must have a sound simulator built in that scans the surrounding area in realtime, and uses the distortions in the scanner wave to simulate sound

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world:
those who understand binary, and those who don't.

As an object's velocity nears the speed of light it' s mass increases, thus requiring more force to accelerate it faster. Granted, the velocity has to be a fairly high percentage of c before the mass increases noticably, but it just get's more massive the faster you go.

As mentioned above, the lack of being able to generate infinite thrust (force) would keep you from getting anywhere near that....

Grimm,

Has that been proven? or is it still the current theory? I thought it is the current theory due to the inability to test it... yet...

Cheers,
Lynx

Maybe all of the ships are equiped with a "sound simulator", a computer which analyses happenings around it, and makes a sound inside the cockpit which fits the event it sees. It does this to help the pilot know what happends beyond what he sees. It also explains why sounds sound the same, ie. a collision always makes the same sound, explosion sounds always the same etc

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Has that been proven? or is it still the current theory? I thought it is the current theory due to the inability to test it... yet...

---

You don't "prove" a theory, except in mathematics. You simply make observations that are consistent with a theory, or not consistent with it.

In this case, there are thousands of observations that support both special and general relativity. The whole point of high energy particle accelerators is to get subatomic particles going really fast (greater than 0.999 c) so that their mass and energy will increase before you smash them together to see what kinds of exotic bits will come out. Even the focusing magnets in your computer monitor need to be designed with relativistic mass in mind; the electron gun in your CRT emits electrons at about 30% the speed of light.

To the best of my knowledge, there has never been an experiment that has in any way called special relativity into question.

--milo
www.starshatter.com

hmm, That is certainly food for thought....

I thought laws of physics were able to be proved, tested and results that prove a thing to be true. For instance the speed of sound can be measured in a given medium. And gravity, the attraction of two masses, and earth's acceleration have all been proven to be fact. The laws of thermodynamics have been proven. If something has not been proven but is generally accepted and supported with observations that neither prove nor disprove a hypothesis then that is termed a Theory, no?

Here is what a dictionary has to say about theory:

a. Systematically organized knowledge applicable in a relatively wide variety of circumstances, especially a system of assumptions, accepted principles, and rules of procedure devised to analyze, predict, or otherwise explain the nature or behavior of a specified set of phenomena. b. Such knowledge or such a system.
2. Abstract reasoning; speculation.
3. A belief that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: rose early, on the theory that morning efforts are best; the modern architectural theory that less is more.
4. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

Excerpted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition Copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from Lernout & Hauspie Speech Products N.V., further reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.

More food for thought....
Cheers
Lynx

Well since there is no wood, water, metal etc. connecting other ships to your own you would never hear them so your point is invalid. And I paid full attention in physics, the biggest determining factor in the lack of sound in outer space is the lack of air present not the lack of wood or water. Stop trying to prove you are smarter than everyone else and don't give me yor condescending attitude, it's not appreciated. I'm 28 years old and far beyond my school years.


Finger...

Let me clarify something for you...

Anyone who has ever taken physics... and passed knows sound requires a medium to travel through. But what you seem to fail to acknowledge is that it can be any medium, not just air! Sound travels through water(eg. SONAR), metal, wood, etc. Sound travels through any phase of any matter.

That being said, there would still be certain sounds if the game were to be made ultra-realistic. Such sounds as your ships engines normal operation the strain of thrusters and cruise engines, the sound of your ships weapons discharging as well as the sounds of impact of enemy weapons on your ship, collision with objects, these things have also been scientificly proven and from your post you fail to realize this fact!

Enjoy and pay more attention in your physics classes!
Lynx

Very thought provoking.. Once I Get to college im gonna take all the physics corses i can get my hands on. The Laws of the Space... There really is nothing quite as intresting, But perhaps sometime in future all these Laws we belive now will be laughed at bye scientists? Kinda like how we look back at the Ancient belive that the earth was the center of the universe.


But anyways no reason to get nasty with one another. Humble yourselfs, you have to inorder to teach or reason with someone, Because when you lord knownlegde over others, you teach them nothing. You only push them away.

-Jimmy Jammy Your Bald Headed Mammy

Untill then, read this:
Click here

This is interesting as well:
Click here

Read the first one first, so you know what a spacetime diagram is and how to read it

-Stregone

Edited by - Stregone on 04-03-2003 05:44:26

Many moons ago, when I was completely addicted to Privateer, a friend of mine brought up this subject (sound in space).

I was flying a Centurian, and I jumped into a system that had asteroids surrounding the jump point; I'm thinking it was Tingerhoff. Anyway, after leaving the asteroid field, I opted not to autopilot to the next waypoint, I just started flying in the general direction, and started talking to my friend. We were talking a while, when I heard a sound I had heard many times before. Three pirates, with lasers, dead ahead. I knew what it was, even though I wasn't looking at the screen. I grabbed ahold of my trusty Thrustmaster, and sent them all into the void.

After watching this, my buddy says to me, "you know, in reality you wouldn't have known you were under fire until the weapons hit your ship." I said I knew, but it started me thinking.

Maybe the designers of the ship integrated an audio system into the ship's sensor array, that was intended to give the pilot auditory signals that, with training, he would use to recognize threats, and respond to quickly and decisively. Think about it, if there's no sound, about the only other way you would know you were under fire is if the HUD showed the information, which it does. But in a heated dogfight, the sounds give you cues that you can respond to much faster than by reading a HUD.

So, if you can't bear the thought of sound in space, maybe this idea will help. Just imagine that the sounds aren't coming from outside the ship, but from speakers inside the ship. And if you still can't deal with it, just turn of your speakers and fly in silence.

Good day,

Dan "Bulldog" Carolan

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I thought laws of physics were able to be proved, tested and results that prove a thing to be true. For instance the speed of sound can be measured in a given medium. And gravity, the attraction of two masses, and earth's acceleration have all been proven to be fact. The laws of thermodynamics have been proven. If something has not been proven but is generally accepted and supported with observations that neither prove nor disprove a hypothesis then that is termed a Theory, no?

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Well, Lynx, we can bandy dictionary definitions around for as long as you like, but I'm not sure it's getting us anywhere. Of the American Heritage definitions of theory, 1a is the closest to that used by physicists. A theory is a descriptive model of a natural feature or process. The value of a theory is that it describes the process in such a way that we can make predictions based on the theory about the outcome of experiments we have not yet undertaken.

A proof is a mathematical construct based on a set of statements that form a sound logical argument - a tautology. Strictly speaking, you can not prove any scientific theory. However, you can disprove or invalidate one by showing a counter-example. Loosely speaking, people often use the word "proved" to refer to a theory that has been consistently confirmed by repeated observation. A better word for this would be "validated."

It is interesting to note that Newtonian mechanics could be considered "proved" in this looser sense of the word, even though Newtonian mechanics is only a special case of relativistic mechanics. Newtonian mechanics works fine for everyday purposes, but produces incorrect predictions when velocity, acceleration, or gravity become large. On the other hand, Einstein did not "disprove" Newton; the new theory was a refinement of the earlier work.

This is important because it sets boundaries on what we can expect future scientists to be able to do. All known particles follow the laws described in special and general relativity. No one has ever found a set of circumstances in which those laws do not apply (at the macroscopic level - quantum mechanics is a separate issue). It is reasonable to assume that any future refinement of relativity theory must include the same laws that we know now, at least as a special case of a more general rule.

This sub-thread has now completely left the topics of both "sound in space" and "the freelancer computer game." So, I'm going to step out now before Bargib has to close down yet another thread.

--milo
www.starshatter.com

But you -CAN- hear the firing of your own ship since it can passed along since your ship ain't a vaccum inside.

So apart from hearing yourself being hit and firing, you shouldn't hear anything else.

computerz,

Correct!

Milo, I still think you are missing the point. There are laws and there are theories, theories are not fact, but rather unproven or rather un-disproved logical speculation based on scientific observation. Many of Einstien's theories are still just that...

This is where we end up... and if you still disagree then that is fine.
Cheers,
Lynx

No, milo has it right. Theories aren't explicitly proven, they just stand up against scruitiny. After a good while (and many attempts to disprove it) when no one has been able to outright disprove it, it becomes 'proven', in a way. Simply because no one has been able to prove otherwise.

-Stregone