i got september 17th here

@taw: yeah, there was a tv *cough* drama *cough* about that wench a few weeks back, i hard it was wholely sub par.

as for adolph being a locutus, isnt that just more talk to sully him. An effort by tabloids and other folk to dehumanise him?

Edited by - Arcon on 9/15/2004 6:52:34 AM

good article, Will.

didn't catch that drama. was it the thing with Robert Carlyle as AH?

no i don't think it is an effort to dehumanise him. I think it explains a lot about the way he was and what lay beneath a lot of his attitudes and beliefs. After all, no-one is born evil, they're made that way. He wasn't even a particularly cruel man in his personal life, loved animals, rather sentimentally natured really, but he's primarily the greatest monster in history. what made him this way?



Edited by - Tawakalna on 9/15/2004 7:01:22 AM

Don't know if you can call it true genius but Adolf did have a better grasp of mass appeal and mass manipulation, although from the standpoint of propoganda and public relations I guess you would have to credit Goebbels more that Hitler.

And he was able to understand the emotional/pyschological undercurrents running through Germany at the time and to devise ways to exploit them for his own political gain. And he was capable of thinking of the unthinkable.

<Edit>

Post Hitler, we find that others have imitated him quite handily in one aspect or another and without incurring the wrath of righteous nations for their evil deeds. Slobodan Milosecvic's current trial notwithstanding, in the main those who are accused of having committed crimes against humanity are more known for their ability to elude or evade prosecution than anything else

Edited by - Indy11 on 9/15/2004 7:08:02 AM

jacob,you're a fine one to talk, had it not been for pearl harbour, the us wouldnt have joined the war, europe would be speaking german, and you would be speaking german and most likely japanese.

<edit> i know ive said that before, but this time i'll back it up with some facts.

had the japanese invaded pre pearl harbour, they'd have been able to get all the way to chicago before the americans could have mounted any degree of effective armed resistance.

Edited by - freighter fighter on 9/15/2004 8:18:12 AM

can we get off america's entry into the war?

@taw: no, it was Ken Stott as Adolf, was called Uncle Adolf i missed it on the advice of Newsnight Review

Edited by - Arcon on 9/15/2004 8:45:25 AM

yeah, i'd aprpeciate it if we could erm, get nearer to on topic, regardless of the forum's name.

so what should i do for mum's bday? i've so far never done anything. she'll prolly forget about it or sth. she's usually busy on saturdays.

At least give her a card or something. Show you remembered, even if you don't really care.

Take her out to eat or fix dinner for her, a card, ect.

Yeah, dinner's always good, especially if she's usually the one who does all the cooking.

If she's never expected anything from you kimk, all the more reason to show some love and appreciation for her.

Like Code said, a card at the very least and one that actually says something you truly mean.... best not a funny card but a mushy one, unf.

Or do something around the house for her something that's a PITA for anyone to do and that she does all the time.

sorry to invoke an old topic chaps, but

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how and why things got to the point that December 7 actually happened.

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I think I can say here and now, that there is no such thing as a conspiracy about the Pearl Harbor attack. Don't forget, The japanese have a discipline stronger then a 6 inch steel bar, and come to that, The japanese are fairly practised at waging war, seeing as the Meiji era DID put the japanese with one leg in the western world, but the other foot was still firmly put into the old ways, IE the Samurai way, they were master planners at that time, they still are at this point. My point being, the attack of pearl harbor, has probably been planned, trained and practised into the areas of absolute perfection by the high command (either that or utter boredom, either one of em, and seeing their discipline and will towards absolute perfection in general at things, my money's on the first) They carefully put up an intel. network, executed it and worked with the intel they had, instead of guessing about, by the time the US Intell. service got word that an entire fleet of Japanese WAR ships had vanished, it was probably already too late.

Also a what if...

reports from Radar stations list that they saw a large blob on the screen that early morning, they thought it was a flight of B-17's at practice, what if.. they didn't identify it as a flight of B-17's at practice, rather as an unidentified object, presumably hostile, would they have been able to keep the damage within more lower levels?? or would the attack still have the devastating effect it had as written in the history books.

Also, if I might be the one to point out, Pearl Harbor was to the common GI there as Acapulco or Llorette de mar would be to us, IE an area where people could relax, because nothing would ever happen. High Command, tactical as they may be, never would expect that the japanese would wage war on the US, the instant the the fleet of warships missing was noticed, they would probably think they were out on manouvers, or be shifted to another point to help the Japanese own war and conquest effort out in the orient, they certainly never expected that the attack fleet would arrive so fast, I think Yamamoto put the "pedal to the metal" IE let the ships sail out in Full steam, and don't rest until the attack range (outside of Pearl Harbor Radar range, which was also carefully (!) measured and investigated) was reached, where he would set up and deploy his resources. Seeing as the "blob" on the screen were airplanes.

To conclude: Yamamoto put his plan in Carefull execution, would the US forces stationed on Pearl Harbor be in complete chaos, as opposed to the chaotic order they were in, he would have sent over the third wave, IE wipe the floor with all what was stationed there.

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To conclude: Yamamoto put his plan in Carefull execution, would the US forces stationed on Pearl Harbor be in complete chaos, as opposed to the chaotic order they were in, he would have sent over the third wave, IE wipe the floor with all what was stationed there.

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Possibly, except that Yamamoto was not in command of the Combined Strike force, Nagumo was. In relative comparison, if Yamamoto was a flashlight, Nagumo was candle.

In any event, I mean to say that conspiracy theories abound. I didn't say they were true or false. There are, however, some coincidences that seem to beg some questions. i.e.: The US carriers and fast cruisers were ordered out of port a week or two before the attack. The Saratoga was held in San Francisco instead of steaming to Pearl as originally planned which would have put her in Pear at the time of attack... had she left as planned.

But, as I say, there are conspiracy theories my friend. Whether you agree with them is another story altogether...

What a bloody major C*ck-up, I really should get my facts together, thanks Ed, for correcting my mistake, although I tend to think, Nagumo was only the executor, Yamamoto, played a valuable part in the planning,

anyway, thanks again Ed.

Ed's a reference book on the Pacific conflict, and Japanese history in general