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Vietnam

This is where you can discuss your homework, family, just about anything, make strange sounds and otherwise discuss things which are really not related to the Lancer-series. Yes that means you can discuss other games.

Post Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:01 pm

this was the point made by Captain Willard in Apoc Now, if you recall and it wasn't simply that it militarily negating. it was symptomatic of a lie, using a falsehood to cover up a collective guilt.

"the more they tried to make it just like home, the more they missed it; but I knew it wasn't there anymore.."

and of course these turning points, these deeper insights into the futility of the war and what it was failing to achieve, are the key points in the film. The tragic irony of the American presence in Vietnam is imo summed up in the sampan scene where the native boat is shot up because the Chief wants to inspect it for contraband, and the girl tries to hide her puppy. When Chef discovers she's still alive despite being cut down by .50 cal, and the crew want to take her to a vietnamese post for treatment, Willard calmly steps on the boat and shoots her in the head? as he walks away he says to the Chief,

"I told you not to stop.."

He has a mission to fulfill, and she;s going to die anyway, he cuts out the time-wasting and finishes her off. He's personally disgusted by what he;s seen, and doesn't want her to suffer anymore. Killing doesn't bother him, he's an assassin. He's both a vehicle for us to "witness" and a conduit for the director's intent. So he says to us,

"we cut them in half and offer them a band-aid. it was a lie, and I was so sick of lies.."

Arch you can correct me if I misquoted (again)

it's an incredibly powerful revelation, almost a catharsis if you will, and opens up new depths of meaning for the rest of the film.

Post Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:40 pm

Speaking of another powerful Film/Tv show in tour of duty there is one episdoe i will not froget.

it was at them time were american troups could not pursue Vietcong into Cambodia.

two buddies are laying mines by the border when one gets shot. the vietcong go across the border and hide there. the other buddie is so pissed he crosses the border and starts shooting them all. theere is one left alive and he is begging for mercy. the american soilder looks at him then shoots him

Post Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:13 pm

At a much less deep level, it also displayed the contradiction being played out daily within the military between those who understood that there are no rules in modern total war if one intends to win and those who thought a war should be prosecuted in full accordance with all the rules as a "police action" all the while blundering into doing the same things that the total war proponents had advocated.

Post Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:17 pm

Please don't be spam and I don't know if this has been said before but I hate scrolling through heaps of pages of replies but I just thought I'd say that ZSU's rule. I love playing them in Battlefield Vietnam. My motto while cruising around in one of those is "If it flies, it dies." Also Vietnam is a good game because it has those little history bits at the start of level loadups and it has greeeeeeaaaat music! Kind of contradictive to my first comment but when I'm American I play flyboy and drop my mates off at the hotspots. S'great when you got the right stuff playing like Fortunate Son. For those of you like I once was, ignorant to any music before the great 1980's but that's the song that plays on the intro. It's brilliant!

"I don't see any god up here" --Yuri Gagarin when he first reached earth's orbit

Post Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:20 pm

I haven't played this game BF:Vietnam yet because I hated BF:1942. I don't play online much, althougth i do play LAN occasionally. Will BF:V still be worthwhile my buying? Arch rates it highly and he's invariably right about these things, but wot's other people's opinions?

don't just say it's great or teh r0xx0rx, tell me why its good. how idoes it improve on BF:1942? it's sp gameplay and AI I'm particularly interested in.


Radio Free Tawakalnistan

Post Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:28 pm

if you didn't like BF 1942 you will not like BF vietnam (BTW Taw, what foes your username mean, hat is Tawlakinsatin or however you speel it.)

Post Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:32 pm

thats an interesting question what does it mean taw?

Post Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:01 pm

we've done this already, boys


Edited by - Tawakalna on 9/16/2004 3:50:13 PM

Post Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:03 pm

were i wans't there! tell me were it was or tell me now please

Post Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:18 pm

Can't say I remember that thread, musta missed it. So yeah what the hell does it mean?

Post Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:28 pm

I'll save you the trouble Taw.

In very loosey goosey translation from the Arabic "tawakalna ala allah" it means something along the lines of "God help us or save us"... something like that.

So my guess is that Tawakalna has as a meaning, something to do with help, assistance, salvage or something.

Edited by - Indy11 on 9/16/2004 6:35:29 PM

Post Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:46 pm

and i had thought of posting "ask Ed, he knows.."

it's an islamic rallying cry, goes back a long way. It was also one of Saddam's RG divs back in Gulf War 1. it appealed to me because the Tawakalna div was pretty much the only major Iraqi formation that stayed where it was and fought. They didnt run away, even though they did get bombed to cr*p, they waited for the Americans to get up close and they stood their ground - and got slaughtered. it's the staying put in the face of overwhelming odds in a fight they could never win that I admired so much, esp when we were all being told how cr*p the Iraqis were and what a bunch of cowards they were. Well, not all of them were.

*note fyi* it doesn't mean I admire or ever admired Saddam, ok. I liked the name and what it stood for. I've been using this name since BBS days back in the early 90s.

however, Radio Free Tawakalnistan is the information service of the People's Islamic Republic of Tawakalnistan.

I have my own country. Mustang has his own country. Mine's better.

Post Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:27 am

The thing about Vietnam was the effect it had on soldiers after the fact. The general population was not supporting "...instead they spat on me..." Seymour Skinner, The Simpsons, and did not want to hear stories about the war, but many needed to get what they had done of off their chests, but no-one listened, and many went insane or commited suicide. There were no war heroes in Vietnam, and cowadice and courage were the same thing - death. if you hid, you died. If you were gun-ho, you died.

If you're interested in the Vietnam war, read "The Things They Carried" by Tim O'Brien. I studied it in english this year. It's a pretty good read.

As for me, I would have deserted if my name had been drawn. There was no way I was going to war. The same applys today, I will never join the armed forces, unless there was something that i knew would destroy the world, Like the Nazis, but not over ideologies, and I pray that the rest of humanity thinks like i do.
So you don't have to worry. The Phoenist Republic Of Tyerin will not engage in open war with The People's Islamic Republic of Tawakalnistan. or with Mustangs country, whatever thats called.
=:=
President Viator
Phoenist Republic of Tyerin

Post Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:37 am

Mustang's *country* is called the Hidden Kingdom of Mustang. it's hidden cos he doesn't want me to find it cos of what happened to his dollies last time

Post Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:59 am

I tried to avoid mentioning the Tawakalna Division and that naming's significance. Didn't know how that would be received.

<Edit>
Basically signifies that they would stand to the last man... which they more or less did. They have a record of performance during the Iran-Iraq war as having been the anchor on the defensive line as well as one of the more effective on
offense.



Edited by - Indy11 on 9/17/2004 9:06:59 AM

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