Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:32 pm
How would you?
sorry if this is political, it isnt intended, if you had to invade a country, how would you go about it?
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How would you?
This is where you can discuss your homework, family, just about anything, make strange sounds and otherwise discuss things which are really not related to the Lancer-series. Yes that means you can discuss other games.
46 posts
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Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:56 pm
1. isolate the country diplomatically, and position forces at strategic locations on it's peripheries. this should be done well before an invasion, the first overtly, the second as covertly as possible. Plenty of reconaissance should be done on the topography of the country and the enemy forces located and identified. supplies should be built up as near as possible to the start points of the combat units, and enough surplus for twice the expected fighting. Sldiers always expend more ammunition and fuel than planners expect them to.
2. if possible foment internal dissent amongst the population and the armed forces.
3. assassinate or kidnap key figures
4. destroy key communication facilities and command centres, to disrupt communications from central and sector commands to combat units. take out road bridges, railway marshalling yards, etc. radar sites and SAM defences should also be prioritsed for destruction or neutralisation by ECM
5. airborne troops dropped ahead of the main forces should neutralise resistance locally and seize key bridges, junctions and supply centres etc.
6. strike enemy airfields when the radar cover is down, and engage enemy units that get airborne.
7. launch heavy barrages of anti-armour/anti-personnel and HE on the enemy's fron line positions to neutralize forward defence. this should be immediately prior to the crossing of the enemy border by the main force.
8. try to attack at night if possible to maximise the elemnt of surprise. attack with armour, motorised infantry and mobile artillery/AA. don't stop to invest towns, link up with forward units and drive deep into enemy lines. Armour should not halt to engage strongpoints but bypass them, disrupting communications further and spreading panic and confusion amongst the enemys front line and ancillary units. "mopping up" operations can be left to motorised infantry and light units. Aircraft should range ahead of the advancing units targeting armour columns, artillery, troop movements and supplies.
9. successful penetrations of the enemy front should be reinforced, extending the breakthrough. forces should not be expended on static objectives. in this respect significant freedom has to be given to corps and divisonal commanders who are nearer the fighting than General staff. No plan of attack survives first contact with the enemy even if you overwhelm him, and sufficient tactical flexibility must be not only allowed for but encouraged.
10. while enemy soldiers and officers should betreated according to the articles of war, civilian hostility should not be tolerated and francs-tireurs should be executed. Local political figures should if poosible be given the chance to co-operate with the invading forces, but organised resistance from the civic authorities and local defence militias should be put down ruthlessly. Spies should also be executed on the spot.
11. lines of retreat for the enemy should be harassed by forward units such as parachutists and other special forces, and any local elemnts willing to help and hostile to the enemy. Aircraft and artillery should also aggressively attack retreating enemy units and key roads/bridges etc, even if these are located in civilian areas where there is likely to be loss of life (that's just the way it is)
12. the attack should be carried out at all times and by all personnel and ranks with vigour and determination, with an eye to exploit opportunities as they arise. Above all the momentum of the advance should be sustained even if this means deviating somewhat from a planned axis of attack. the destruction and dospersal of the enemys foces in the field is more important than the capture of urban centres or territory.
*see* no politics, just military theory
it's "Blitzkreig" of course, a modified form of which is the central tenet of modern US military thinking, called AirSeaLand Battle 2000, largely drawing on the lessons of the first Gulf War. Until then Western military planning had been essentially defensive, being predicated upon having to resist and repel a supposed Soviet invasion of Western Europe.
anything else? what's all this for, you off to invade Maidstone or something?
Edited by - Radio Free Tawakalnistan on 9/4/2004 2:05:39 PM
Edited by - Radio Free Tawakalnistan on 9/4/2004 2:24:09 PM
2. if possible foment internal dissent amongst the population and the armed forces.
3. assassinate or kidnap key figures
4. destroy key communication facilities and command centres, to disrupt communications from central and sector commands to combat units. take out road bridges, railway marshalling yards, etc. radar sites and SAM defences should also be prioritsed for destruction or neutralisation by ECM
5. airborne troops dropped ahead of the main forces should neutralise resistance locally and seize key bridges, junctions and supply centres etc.
6. strike enemy airfields when the radar cover is down, and engage enemy units that get airborne.
7. launch heavy barrages of anti-armour/anti-personnel and HE on the enemy's fron line positions to neutralize forward defence. this should be immediately prior to the crossing of the enemy border by the main force.
8. try to attack at night if possible to maximise the elemnt of surprise. attack with armour, motorised infantry and mobile artillery/AA. don't stop to invest towns, link up with forward units and drive deep into enemy lines. Armour should not halt to engage strongpoints but bypass them, disrupting communications further and spreading panic and confusion amongst the enemys front line and ancillary units. "mopping up" operations can be left to motorised infantry and light units. Aircraft should range ahead of the advancing units targeting armour columns, artillery, troop movements and supplies.
9. successful penetrations of the enemy front should be reinforced, extending the breakthrough. forces should not be expended on static objectives. in this respect significant freedom has to be given to corps and divisonal commanders who are nearer the fighting than General staff. No plan of attack survives first contact with the enemy even if you overwhelm him, and sufficient tactical flexibility must be not only allowed for but encouraged.
10. while enemy soldiers and officers should betreated according to the articles of war, civilian hostility should not be tolerated and francs-tireurs should be executed. Local political figures should if poosible be given the chance to co-operate with the invading forces, but organised resistance from the civic authorities and local defence militias should be put down ruthlessly. Spies should also be executed on the spot.
11. lines of retreat for the enemy should be harassed by forward units such as parachutists and other special forces, and any local elemnts willing to help and hostile to the enemy. Aircraft and artillery should also aggressively attack retreating enemy units and key roads/bridges etc, even if these are located in civilian areas where there is likely to be loss of life (that's just the way it is)
12. the attack should be carried out at all times and by all personnel and ranks with vigour and determination, with an eye to exploit opportunities as they arise. Above all the momentum of the advance should be sustained even if this means deviating somewhat from a planned axis of attack. the destruction and dospersal of the enemys foces in the field is more important than the capture of urban centres or territory.
*see* no politics, just military theory
it's "Blitzkreig" of course, a modified form of which is the central tenet of modern US military thinking, called AirSeaLand Battle 2000, largely drawing on the lessons of the first Gulf War. Until then Western military planning had been essentially defensive, being predicated upon having to resist and repel a supposed Soviet invasion of Western Europe.
anything else? what's all this for, you off to invade Maidstone or something?
Edited by - Radio Free Tawakalnistan on 9/4/2004 2:05:39 PM
Edited by - Radio Free Tawakalnistan on 9/4/2004 2:24:09 PM
Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:09 pm
off to invade chatham, to get rid of all the pikeys, melt down their gold, and confiscate the boy racers cars.
personally, if it was me, id park submarines in international waters and fling neutron bombs at the place for a couple of days.
Edited by - freighter fighter on 9/4/2004 2:12:35 PM
personally, if it was me, id park submarines in international waters and fling neutron bombs at the place for a couple of days.
Edited by - freighter fighter on 9/4/2004 2:12:35 PM
Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:37 pm
hmmmm, nice.
But heres my Go:
1. raise a Blockade around the country in question, and make sure there is a food shortage and all-around scarceness in general commodities
2. Set up Border patrols, ensure the blockade is enforced.
3. Try to rally support for the cause im fighting
4. slowly but surely build up an offensive front, and put up field Headquarters around the frontline, at the same time, try to build up staging areas at critical points in the defense line
*4,5. Build up and maintain a sufficient and well stocked supply line from the rear to the front, and keep it well defended
5. erect airfields some distance from the border and make sure they have sufficient amounts of fighters and bombers, and the supplies to keep em flying.
6. if this were an island steps one two and three would apply, but the frontline would almost entirely be made up of Troopships with Landing crafts and armor, and the airfields would be carrier ships, sufficiently stocked.
7. Start an intense Military intelligence organized photosweep, so to determine all possible targets to strike on the first wave.
**The actual invasion (by land)**
Launch an assault from the airfields to cripple communications networks, water supplies, and electrical supplies, at the same time start an intense artillery bombardment on the front line defense perimeters, under the cover of artillery, let the first wave make a rapid advance and have the second wave stand by to support the first, also, attacking from several angles, not just one angle and position, giving each taskforce a specific direction and area of the country to set free, once these perimeters have been broken, move inland, and set up forward supply bases, and reinforce the offensive fronts, and repeat the same tactic, once far enough inland move the airbases further up front, and commence bombing key military positions, and step up the pace of the bombardments, once in range of the major citadels, start artillery bombarding the outskirt military defense emplacements, making sure that each major Taskforce has its own (Major) city to liberate, each with their own forward airbase etc. when one city has fallen, mop up the remaing pockets of resistance, and set up the forward supply bases and headquarters inside the cities. and set up the defense perimeter to be prepared if a counter attack should occur. send out possible reinforcements to the other taskforces in the form of supplies.
When all major cities are conquered, sweep the country of remaining resistance and begin establishing governing agenciesto keep the land from falling into utter chaos
**The actual Invasion (By sea)**
Launch an assault from the Carriers to cripple communications networks, water supplies, and electrical supplies, at the same time start an intense artillery bombardment on the front line defense perimeters, from the Battleships, frigates and similar seacraft, under the cover of the bombardments, move up all troops and armor from their respective carriers and move them up the beaches, once all Beachheads have been taken, Reinforce the troops and start moving inland, setting up forward Artillery posts on the beaches. send all Taskforces to their respective Major cities to take, using light artillery to bomb the city border defense structures, also having the airforce bomb the key military emplacements. when all cities are taken, again sweep the country of remaining resistance pockets and begin establishing governing agencies to keep the land from falling into utter chaos
EDIT: IMHO Invasion Tactics have got nothing to do with politics at all, you would much rather be discussing the art of Combat, then the art of bickering-insanely-about-nothing, mind you, my tactic is incomplete and only covers the basis, but this tactic is much rather based on a strong offensive front, and the tactic of advance-reinforce-advance-reinforce, then on Blitzkrieg tactics.
Edited by - Locutus on 9/4/2004 2:51:20 PM
Edited by - Locutus on 9/5/2004 11:17:49 AM
But heres my Go:
1. raise a Blockade around the country in question, and make sure there is a food shortage and all-around scarceness in general commodities
2. Set up Border patrols, ensure the blockade is enforced.
3. Try to rally support for the cause im fighting
4. slowly but surely build up an offensive front, and put up field Headquarters around the frontline, at the same time, try to build up staging areas at critical points in the defense line
*4,5. Build up and maintain a sufficient and well stocked supply line from the rear to the front, and keep it well defended
5. erect airfields some distance from the border and make sure they have sufficient amounts of fighters and bombers, and the supplies to keep em flying.
6. if this were an island steps one two and three would apply, but the frontline would almost entirely be made up of Troopships with Landing crafts and armor, and the airfields would be carrier ships, sufficiently stocked.
7. Start an intense Military intelligence organized photosweep, so to determine all possible targets to strike on the first wave.
**The actual invasion (by land)**
Launch an assault from the airfields to cripple communications networks, water supplies, and electrical supplies, at the same time start an intense artillery bombardment on the front line defense perimeters, under the cover of artillery, let the first wave make a rapid advance and have the second wave stand by to support the first, also, attacking from several angles, not just one angle and position, giving each taskforce a specific direction and area of the country to set free, once these perimeters have been broken, move inland, and set up forward supply bases, and reinforce the offensive fronts, and repeat the same tactic, once far enough inland move the airbases further up front, and commence bombing key military positions, and step up the pace of the bombardments, once in range of the major citadels, start artillery bombarding the outskirt military defense emplacements, making sure that each major Taskforce has its own (Major) city to liberate, each with their own forward airbase etc. when one city has fallen, mop up the remaing pockets of resistance, and set up the forward supply bases and headquarters inside the cities. and set up the defense perimeter to be prepared if a counter attack should occur. send out possible reinforcements to the other taskforces in the form of supplies.
When all major cities are conquered, sweep the country of remaining resistance and begin establishing governing agenciesto keep the land from falling into utter chaos
**The actual Invasion (By sea)**
Launch an assault from the Carriers to cripple communications networks, water supplies, and electrical supplies, at the same time start an intense artillery bombardment on the front line defense perimeters, from the Battleships, frigates and similar seacraft, under the cover of the bombardments, move up all troops and armor from their respective carriers and move them up the beaches, once all Beachheads have been taken, Reinforce the troops and start moving inland, setting up forward Artillery posts on the beaches. send all Taskforces to their respective Major cities to take, using light artillery to bomb the city border defense structures, also having the airforce bomb the key military emplacements. when all cities are taken, again sweep the country of remaining resistance pockets and begin establishing governing agencies to keep the land from falling into utter chaos
EDIT: IMHO Invasion Tactics have got nothing to do with politics at all, you would much rather be discussing the art of Combat, then the art of bickering-insanely-about-nothing, mind you, my tactic is incomplete and only covers the basis, but this tactic is much rather based on a strong offensive front, and the tactic of advance-reinforce-advance-reinforce, then on Blitzkrieg tactics.
Edited by - Locutus on 9/4/2004 2:51:20 PM
Edited by - Locutus on 9/5/2004 11:17:49 AM
Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:58 pm
I deftly avoided the rather more diffcult task of a seaborne invasion (presumably contested) it's so much easier crossing a land frontier.
that's a point. ff, are we attacking a country with a coastline and we can't go by land, or is it a land assault, or both? you've given no criteria at all for this projected invasion. I think you should choose or make up a country, give us some detail on its govt and eceonmy, the state of its military, geography, then let us draw up a plan of attack for you. Also are we to assume a capable if not lavish military machine on our side?
I note that Comrade Locutov's planning is remarkably similar to the Soviet doctrine of total offense along a predetermined strategic axis. How do you cope with flanking attacks in strength? do you have covering forces that you cast off as you advance, or do you largely ignore flanking attacks and pursue the axis of the advance? what if the enemy has prepared substantial blocking forces that you cant sweep around, and has flanking forces ready to take advantage of that?
Edited by - Radio Free Tawakalnistan on 9/4/2004 3:14:37 PM
that's a point. ff, are we attacking a country with a coastline and we can't go by land, or is it a land assault, or both? you've given no criteria at all for this projected invasion. I think you should choose or make up a country, give us some detail on its govt and eceonmy, the state of its military, geography, then let us draw up a plan of attack for you. Also are we to assume a capable if not lavish military machine on our side?
I note that Comrade Locutov's planning is remarkably similar to the Soviet doctrine of total offense along a predetermined strategic axis. How do you cope with flanking attacks in strength? do you have covering forces that you cast off as you advance, or do you largely ignore flanking attacks and pursue the axis of the advance? what if the enemy has prepared substantial blocking forces that you cant sweep around, and has flanking forces ready to take advantage of that?
Edited by - Radio Free Tawakalnistan on 9/4/2004 3:14:37 PM
Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:21 pm
my way is simple
isolate the country so i get no trade and stuff
convice citizens that my goverment feeds everyone and has lots of good stuff
after the citezens start mobbing becuase they want my goverment and not there poor country promise the citezens that if they help fight there goverment we will come in and give them what they want
march in taking key points of supply and such so the country is shattered like glass
let it sit for a few months weanking it
then finish it off
______________________________
oh i sit and wait
for a fool to seal may fate
as i play
passes another day
be them evil
be them good
there all in Fl like they should
isolate the country so i get no trade and stuff
convice citizens that my goverment feeds everyone and has lots of good stuff
after the citezens start mobbing becuase they want my goverment and not there poor country promise the citezens that if they help fight there goverment we will come in and give them what they want
march in taking key points of supply and such so the country is shattered like glass
let it sit for a few months weanking it
then finish it off
______________________________
oh i sit and wait
for a fool to seal may fate
as i play
passes another day
be them evil
be them good
there all in Fl like they should
Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:02 pm
As per the formations tactic described below, I think I have more fear from cells of resistance that actually get to stage an attack on the rear, thats why I do guard the Rear with Light infantry furthest at the back (and kind of protecting the aerial supply lines, and more or less encapsuling the ground supply lines) and backed up by mechanized infantry, the thing is, the flanking batteries can cover an anormous heap of ground, and because they are larger then the center battery, they can devide and give one full batteries worth of Fire in two directions (front and aft) and still be able to cope with flanking attacks with the same full force, while (if not under attack from both sides at once and the front all at the same time*) the other can give support to the center battery
How do you cope with flanking attacks in strength?
*if this were the case, mechanized infantry would give a good cover for itself on lighter artillery, while each seperate battery (lets say one A=one battery and represents 8 pieces of heavy arty (120 mm Howitzers)) can give way to a set of coordinates and blast it while moving to the next, this requires a huge communications operation, and thats why I'm for giving each seperate battery one designation and let the spotting for the larger batteries be handled by each of the sides of the wedge, and giving the center (smaller) battery to the front points of the wedge.
My covering forces are largerly made up of supplies and Artillery, my main fighting force would exist of Cavalry(Main Tank body) and Infantry (mostly mechanized infantry(thats why I like the BMP so much, it can carry and support up to 12 men at a time, and at the same time protect them, plus giving them part of the mobility of the cavalry) and seperate platoons of men) as to that purpose, I kinda make a wide as possible wedge shape, like this:
do you have covering forces that you cast off as you advance, or do you largely ignore flanking attacks and pursue the axis of the advance?
S= Supplies
A= Artillery
C= Cavalry
I= mechanized (heavy) Infantry
i= platoons of standard (light) infantry
Supplies are flown in and loaded via Mobile supply centers into Trucks, who carry the supplies to their respectable units, then you will notice the artillery posted to guard the flanks, and a little bit down the middle to concentrate barrages on what the (part of) taskforce is facing, which can always be aided by the batteries on the side who are there solely for flankguard. one TaskForce is made up of five or so of these squads running side by side in more or likely a bit of a wedge or pyramid form. Each with their own Supply centers that will be flying in the supplies by chopper.
Hmmmmm, My main idea was to simply choke, i.e. strangle the country as it were, as you might have noticed, I prefer to attack from multiple angles, so I can cautiously, but with due speed andvance advance further on into the country, I would NEVER sweep around something that could be causing me serious headaches in the future, I would here, try to reinforce my position where I am, and split a part of a Nearby taskforce to come to the aid of the halted taskforce, but from a totally different angle, because if they have to cope with multiple angles to defend, it would mean their resources can't be spoiled on one thing alone anymore, plus, I would kinda "scatter" the halted taskforce, as to form a broad as possible offense line, I would also give the splinter taskforce the side-objective to look out for supply runs to the obstacle, and if possible, wipe them out and guard the known routes for any further runs.
what if the enemy has prepared substantial blocking forces that you cant sweep around, and has flanking forces ready to take advantage of that?
One minor pioint on the side, my planning relies heavily on Ground fighting and defeating groundforces, by sheer number, and force, as I said, its based slowly but as fast as possible rolling towards the and objective, choking the amount of ground the enemy has free passage on, so as to eliminate the amount of possible guerilla warfare needed to defeat the opponent.
Edited by - Locutus on 9/4/2004 6:12:53 PM
Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:09 pm
what ff said, park couple subs in international waters and fling neutron bombs at the place for a couple days.
but in all seriousness, we have more than enough firepower to reduce the planet into vacuum 6 times over or so. what problem are we facing again ?
edit: of course, it'd be best if you gave us some constants, some restrictions.
Edited by - kimk on 9/4/2004 10:27:39 PM
but in all seriousness, we have more than enough firepower to reduce the planet into vacuum 6 times over or so. what problem are we facing again ?
edit: of course, it'd be best if you gave us some constants, some restrictions.
Edited by - kimk on 9/4/2004 10:27:39 PM
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