Parenting is the most important element.

BUT I still think that it is twisted to make violence a point of entertainment so that the bloodier and gorier, the more entertaining. There is something inherently perverse in that type of equation.

indy you're right...BUT...there must be something in human nature that craves violence or else they wouldn't be so popular. IMHO its just one evolutionary step up from playing "army" with sticks as machine guns. Why it fascinates us I don't know - maybe its the "hunter" instinct in all of us, maybe its something more freudian, who knows

i play Soldier of Fortune 2 (SoF2) i also play, all the GTA's etc etc. But ive never gone on a rampage.... heres a point for you all to think about -

A kid (with friends) planed to run into a school loaded with guns, shoot as MANY ppl as he could find.... why? because he thought he was NEO from the matrix.

Why the hell not bad films too?
Lets face it, its like Prohibition, if we arnt allowed films/TV/Games. Will find something else to do...

Im 16, and i get my perents to get me "illegal" and im "underage" for games.
But im not stupid enough to though my life away by thinking im NEO.
I think that kid who ran into the school had mental problems... and SHOULD NEVER have blamed it on a movie, tv, or game.

My perents DID bring me up well.. but common sense tells me i should not do that. Besides they bad guy (killer/etc) always dies.... EVERYONE knows that
If theres a problem, the perents are not always to blame. If any of you had a kid who turned out to be a killer.... would you put you hand up and say "Yes sorry... it was that DAMN video game"....

Personaly i think youd all be singing a different tune

Edited by - DarkDragon on 4/6/2004 9:45:10 AM

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A kid (with friends) planed to run into a school loaded with guns, shoot as MANY ppl as he could find.... why? because he thought he was NEO from the matrix

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That makes him a paranoid dillusional in my book. Like you said, its got bugger all to do with the film....which is my point exactly.

Grom said

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indy you're right...BUT...there must be something in human nature that craves violence or else they wouldn't be so popular. IMHO its just one evolutionary step up from playing "army" with sticks as machine guns. Why it fascinates us I don't know - maybe its the "hunter" instinct in all of us, maybe its something more freudian, who knows

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Most of us here on TLR live in societies where somehow, violence is OK, even gory violence, but sex is a no-no. And before someone jumps on me for this, I am using this comparison for what it is. It is fact.

The question is how that moral equation was reached. I am unable to figure it out and I am not trying to start an argument about it. It is just a simple observation. If the violent games in question also included some more obvious sexual visual effects, etc., you know for sure that they would be either banned or rated somekind of X so that it would take a really comatose parent to ignore it.

<Edit>
OH...And I know this sort of contradicts what I just said above but... the regular broadcast networks here in the US seem to have caught-on to the argument and, oddly, have decided to play both sides of the fence. Now we have police/crime shows in which blood and guts are more regularly shown, especially in crime scene settings and then again at the morgue, and various kinds of non-full frontal male and female nudity.

So I don't know where we're going next. It is all very confusing to me.

Edited by - Indy11 on 4/6/2004 10:15:14 AM

its definitely true to say that the addition of sex to a game or movie would instantly give it an X rating. Ridiculous though isn't it? Its like its ok for the bad sad of human nature to be exploited, but not the good.

When was the last time you heard the story of a kid walking into a high school with his "gun uncocked" and getting all of the girls pregnant in one crazy afternoon of gang orgies....subsequently appealling to the better nature of the public with "I'm truly sorry, I didn't know what I was doing, its all because of mario *sob*"....hmmm

lol, my Dad was even wierder about rated content in movies and games.
Violence? - "nothing wrong with a bit of that on the telly"
Sex? - "Psh, the sex sequences in films don't last that long, anyway, at least I know my son's not gay"
Swearing? - "OMG what the hell is this movie doing to my poor innocent child?"

Meanwhile the reality is, I was used to swearing all the time at school with my peers, nad if need be I could swear like a trooper too. Sex was something you never saw as a kid and violence was limited to school fights!

Anyway regardless, one reason violence may not be seen as bad is that at a very young age, mainly among boys, stuff that is gross and disgusting is considered cool. You gain social points among your peers by being naughty enough to sneak a watch of Alien or some other movie with gory scenes. Something like a roadkill is incredibly engrossing for young boys. On the other hand pornographic material isn't that interesting because you haven't hit puberty yet.

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no ARCON kids can obtain any game without the parents knowing it. From other friends who burn it, off the net, etc. At my school there used to be heaps of year 7'ers running black market burnt cd trading operations.

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I know you guys have backed me up but i wanted to just add. Kids can OBTAIN anything they want (within reason) but you ever been playing a game and your mum or dad pops their head around the door and ask what your playing? or come watch for a bit, or chat about what your doing in the dark with the chair pushed against the door. Parenting isnt just buying your kids videogames. i mean thats pretty ****ing stupid to start with, those ****off parents buying their kids whatever games they want, im talking about parents who turn a blind eye to whatever theyre up to...THATS the problem. Parents that have no interest in keeping an eye on the kids when theyre sitting in front of the box because from THEIR experience TV, video games and computers are harmless so it must be true for everyone all the time.

Sometimes there are other factors. My little bro has dyspraxia and was sent to a boarding school for the special education he needed (mainly lingual skills). So my parents gave him as much attention as possible while he was home at the weekends. It meant I could go do pretty much whatever I liked because my parents couldn't really be bothered about me at that time. I guess it depends on the nature of the child, I used my freedom to go out riding or skating, although other kids might've taken advantage of the situation and gone out harassing people, shoplifting etc

like i said before, my perents buy me any game i like. Im 16, ive seen just about every porn film there is, have a gf etc. So really it depends on the subject.

I mean i enjoy UT04 and Sof2 but my perents trust me enough not to go around shooting ppl screaming "HEAD SHOT!"

Instead i make mods IE nova design. I think it really depends on the kid and what situation there put in. I can see some kids would take gore to another leave (turn evil lol) but most of us dont care. And are not stupid enough to turn a game into reality.

I also find it funny btw the difference in atitude towards violence and sex. Violence?... hmm ok.... sex? no way!
i think its because many adults have this vision of there son/daughter becoming "sex mad" and that would make them drug users, rebels etc.
I think some people need to tihnk about how much they trust there kids... instead of the rating number on the front of the box.

EDIT : Spelling lol

Edited by - DarkDragon on 4/6/2004 11:44:35 AM

@Indy

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BUT I still think that it is twisted to make violence a point of entertainment so that the bloodier and gorier, the more entertaining. There is something inherently perverse in that type of equation.

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Well, Not by definition, your threads show me that you have extensive knowledge of Human history through the Ages, Am I right??
Well have you ever seen a period in time where man wasn't fascinated by Violence and Blood and gore?? I mean in Roman time, The Gladiators Fought their asses of, to entertain the masses. Heck, the masses even decided if a fallen Gladiator lived or died. In the Middle ages came the Public torture and executions. I am not a Huge expert on History but by my memory this lasted into the early 19th Century, and is still in effect in some countries on the face of this hunk of rubble.
Modern age Brought us TV, and later on, The Personal Computers. The First Violent Motion Pictures date back as far as 1910 and are still made, Prettier and more detailed as time progresses, even Cartoons have a strong degree of (allthough animated) Violence in them. Even some styles of Humour, like slapstick, condone a High degree of Violence, and we find it Funny. (At least I do)

Sorry if I offend you with this, but to say that The More Violence in a Computergame, the more perverted it is, is in my mind Hypocritical if you look at history, I might sound controversial with this, But I say that it is less perverted Then 2,000 years ago. I mean, what's more perverted, Shooting The **** out of a heap of Pixels?? Or is it Voting for a Human being to die, By the hands of someone who might one day share his fate???
Tell me honestly, Which is more perverted??

*Slips and smacks face down on the Concrete, because he forgot he was on soapbox*

Edited by - Locutus on 4/6/2004 12:36:29 PM

im inclined to agree. Well said!

Sorry ARCON I didn't read your message fully. Yes I agree parents have to do with it with the raising the kid "right" and stuff. But I'm just saying parents can't monitor everything the child does on the computer. I know. I was a child.

Locutus. I think i found an answer to your question of ,have you ever seen a period in time where man wasn't fascinated by Violence and Blood and gore?? That's simple, Colonial times