Soz mate, couldn't resist.
Seriously now I have no idea.

Edited by - Griffon_26 on 1/18/2004 8:44:07 PM

I'd tend to agree with Grif. Not a big interest.

Life: No one gets out alive.

I dunno, I tend to hate guys who take advantage of children from the bottom of my heart. But he's not convicted yet. Also, I heared that the parents need money and that they sued others aswel for a fair amount of money. But this is just rumors ofcourse.
Also, I think Michael Jackson is not realy sane in the head, if you know what I mean. Those who have seen the documentary (is that the correct word?) of Michael Jackson he made a few month ago, might agree. What man makes his kids wear masks? What man thinks he's Peter Pan? That says a lot I think. It doesn't say he's guilty, but I think he's at least one card short of a full deck.

I just hope they don't settle, again, if he's proven guilty.

Edit: Damn spelling.

- I'm not crazy, I'm a car. And if you don't believe me, you can get out and walk home. -

Ok, I don't mean to offend anyone, and you know that I hold you all in the greatest of respect....but....has no-one here heard of "innocent til proven guilty"??? Yes he's weird, yes he's messed up his face, yes he has a jesus complex, yes he loves himself, yes he cares for children slightly more than what would be considered "Normal"....but none of these things are a crime. I'm afraid guys that you are falling straight into that stupidity trap of "trial by media". Its not fair for any of us to judge him until the evidence has been put forward. I will give my opinion then.

Come one guys, wisen up a little.

I tend to agree with nickless here, i don't think that he's all there, but having said that he could still be innocent though.

This is a trumped up charge. The problem is so many have pre concieved ideas about who Michael Jackson is they've immediately labeled him guilty. Personally I think this poor kid has been pushed into this by his greedy parents who can think of nothing else but getting thier hands on Mikes cash. Look I think Mike is a very wierd dude but I don't think he is a child molester, he just a guy who has never lived in the real world and is probably a little to trusting of people.

woah grom!! no one said anything about him being guilty! Nickless was just saying he doesn't think Jackson is completely sane, judging by many of his actions I think he's right. No one said he must be guilty, in fact Nickless went out of his way to say that it didn't prove Jackson's guilt by any means.
One thing I found strange was that about 2 weeks ago he claimed he'd dislocated his shoulder when police had man-handled him. Then after he turns up for his first court appearance to plead not guilty, he jumps up onto the roof of his van to wave to the crowd. Somehow his dislocated shoulder had miraculously healed?!
Plus the fact that he turned up with his own camera-man and directed him while turning up to the court 21 minutes late suggests, to me, that he's a man who is not taking things seriously. I don't trust anything he says at all.

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I am the signature virus! Copy me into your signature so that I can take over the world! Moohahahee!

Did you know that Michael Jackson, along with his whole family (remember the Jackson Five) were brought up as Jehovah's Witnesses?

That singer Prince also claims to be one!

-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-

http://www.cardamine.net/ - New and improved, with downloads!

@recusant - this thread is proving my point entirely. I wasn't having a specific go at Nickless (damn he knows me better than that), I was pre-emptying what this thread was going to turn into - a "jackson's a weirdo" thread. It seems that everyone here is happy to believe what they read in the papers. I agree the guy appears to be a total fruit loop but thats absolutely no reason to connect him with child abuse.

Two phrases that I'm gonna repeat and repeat until I'm blue in the face....

"Trial by media"

and

"Innocent until proven guilty"

I agree with you entirely, Grom, but I think there's more to it than just media sensationalism. Back in 1993, he paid off that family who were trying to prosecute him for child molestation. Considering Jackson has access to some of the best lawyers in the US, you'd think that any chink in the armour of the case against Jackson would be blown apart by the lawyers and Jackson would be cleared anyway. It takes a pretty conclusive case against him that Jackson's lawyers would suggest that he broker a deal with the family. If the family had any doubts about whether, their case would win, I doubt they would've been capable of getting (reportedly) several million from Jackson. I think this, paired with the documentary in which he said he thought it was OK to sleep with children, is what has lead most people to feel that it's quite possible for him to be a child molester.
My personal major problem with Jackson, is that he is actually given far too much leeway by the authorities. If your average citizen were to dangle his child from a fourth floor window, his child would be taken into care and the offender would probably face sentencing for child endangerment. Plus if you've seen the way his entourage treats the general members of the public who might happen to be walking on the same pavement, you'd be disgusted too, they have no right to physically knock people out of the way. It reminds me of the bodyguards that African dictators employ, except at least Jackson's ones won't shoot you.

I agree Recusant. But I see the "pay off" from a completely different angle. The media basically made out that Jacksons lawyer paid off the family of the prosecuting child, and therefore Jackson must have been guilty because he made a "pay off". But I find there are two major flaws in this whole thing.

Firstly, if Jackson was genuinely innocent and the lawyers knew that they would blow the whole story out of the water, then it seems natural to me that Jackson might pay for the whole thing not to go to court. He might want to stop his private life being dragged through the dirt - because lets face it, the media love every second of it. I'm not suggesting that this was the case, but its another angle.

Secondly, and may I add more importantly, if I was even 1% certain that my child had been molested by ANYBODY, I would not accept any amount of money for it not to go to court. And if that person was a public figure, loved by millions, I would absolutely 100% make sure that it went to court whether I was going to win it or not. For this reason alone I think that entire case was thrown together by money hungry parents and media spindoctors. But of course, thats only my opinion.

It should be interesting to see what comes out in court this time. I seem to remember reading that after the last incident Jackson paid a security firm to be by his side 24/7 for the sole purpose of putting an end to these sorts of cases ever arising again. He was so convinced that he was innocent, he paid someone to watch his every move. That doesn't sound like a guilty man to me - but again I think we should reduce the speculation and wait to see the evidence.

Indeed I know Grom good enough to know what he was on about and i didn't feal attacked

I agree with both of you basically, how strange it might sound.

MJ is weird, there's no doubt in my mind that he's not all there. And like I said before, that doesn't make him guilty. I realy hope he didn't do anything wrong. Not because I like him, but because MJ lives in his own world with his own "laws". I think he honestly believes that what he does is no crime and perhaps it isn't. There are just some people who are after his money, wich he doesn't even have, btw. Again I'm just speculating.
The documentary he made about himself didn't help him in anyway. It actually raised even more suspicion with the general public. I mean, who here thinks that taking a strange kid into your bed is normal. It doesn't mean he did anything wrong, but it doesn't help him either.
I also agree that the pay-off doesn't mean he's guilty, but again, it doesn't help him either. Any jury (if there's gonna be any) will be influenced by the media and the general assuption that he's guilty. No mater how objective they are suppose to be, there only human after all.

I think the parents have a part in this also. Everyone knows about the fact that he's fond of kids. What parent would let his child spend the night with someone like MJ, when he/she knows that he's doubtfull. Guilty or not, I wouldn't let my kid stay with him for one minute.
I think, these parents either wanna brag about the fact their kid knows MJ (where's the pride in that), or they're waiting for an oportunity to sue MJ, like what happens now.
In both cases, these parents are sick. They're "exploiting" (is that the correct word) their kids to their own advantage, wich is basically child prostetution. Wether sex is involved or not. Like pushing your kid to play golf and stuff like that.

If I'm crossing any lines here, let me know.

i dont think he's guilty, but then i dont really give a ****. Theres far too much real important news going on in the world to care about ****e like this. Peadophilia in the media has become a damn joke (not "ha ha" but laughable). Its the bloody Salem Wich hunts all over again. one guy yells molestation and you gotta do the whole court thing. Regardless of innocent or guilty, "Trial by Media" means your life is pretty much over and are treated like the end result didnt matter.

I think this thing should be done properly and behind closed doors. The legal proceedings of a sensitive case of this magnitude needs to be kept WELL away from the worlds press on sheer principal that it makes no difference either way if were updated on the finer points of the case, its just ruining even more, the reputation of a guy that used to be the most important man in Music.

Its not something i care about to be honest. I have more vital things to worry about.


"Bang Bang, he shot me down, Bang Bang, i hit the ground,
Bang Bang, that awful sound, Bang Bang, my baby shot me down."

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"Trial by Media" means your life is pretty much over and are treated like the end result didnt matter

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never a truer word spoken...and even though I like to think that I avoid the media's influence, I think I would hesitate before leaving John Leslie alone with my girlfriend and Matthew Kelly alone with my kids...!...know what I mean? Its terrible, these people have their lives ruined by the press...there is no amount of money that can repair it. The same applies to MJ...no matter how weird you consider him to be, the guy has had his entire life trashed by the media...and its about to get worse.