noted

Sorry to get you worked up over it.


Sir Spectre


... No more signature. <-----Irony

Well i saw this movie the matrix. I was pumped for it and i think it's the best of the 3 Ain't that somethin'.

The first matrix movie for me was one of the first movies i've been to see twice at the cinema. At the same time i thought it was technically quite uninspiring and i still believe that. Script, plot, script story not to mention script weren't very good nor was it original (despite what many matrix fans think). I have little respect for the first movie because i have so many criticisms of it.

i was blown away by the second movie. I had a few issues like with morpheus's sword making metal SHING KSHING noises as he swung it in mid air and the resuce attempt of the key master at speeds of probably around 150km/h (at LEAST) would have left the poor guy without arms.

Anyway i seem to have a complete opposite view from most people. I think the sex scene in m2 was fantastic (not neo and trin so much as the room full of dancing black people and the huge drums). I felt that it was a great celebration of humanity. It was riddled with themes of love and compassion being the distinguishing features between humans and machines.

The third movie had irony and symbolism. It also had great messages shrouded by bad ones. I found scenes that were meaningless carefully hid the very meaning they appeared not to hold. Very subtle expressions of humanity all over. It dabbled in philosphy as well as racial and social cultures. It had themes of hope, fate compassion, love and communion... I cant sum up my opinions on the movie here but i feel that my opinions on this movie define very much of the person i am. Many people think the first movie was the best but i'm the opposite. And i'm proud to have such a self-defining realisation. My only immediate complaint was the corniness but anyone who thinks any of these movies was not corny is kidding themselves. I expected it in the 3rd one

i gleaned many subtle yet great messages from this movie (and similar from Reloaded).

kumari --- "You are ALL my brothers and sisters."

Edited by - kumari on 12-11-2003 17:23:59

@Kumari

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I think the sex scene in m2 was fantastic (not neo and trin so much as the room full of dancing black people and the huge drums). I felt that it was a great celebration of humanity. It was riddled with themes of love and compassion being the distinguishing features between humans and machines.

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I hated that sequence. If the world was like that I would have shot myself long ago. I thought it was the worst side of humanity; without hope other than physical pleasure. Basically no better than animals. Which may be what the brothers wanted to show, they did say they wanted it tribal, but it doesn't mean it's something to be admired. That's my view of it.


Sir Spectre


... No more signature. <-----Irony

well i think u judge it too harshly, sS. that scene was meant to contrast the basic carnality of humankind with the sterility and precision of the machine world, and more subtly with the destructive multiplying chaos of Smith, who of course becomes a third element in what had a been a bi-polar "world"

As a piece of cinema its rather crudely done imho and makes its main point too bluntly and for too long, but in terms of what its suggesting both overtly and implicitly and of course in reinforcing the disparity between man and machine, flesh and simulation, it works q effectively. it does go on a bit though

i'm of the opinion that one of our distinctions from animals is that we appreciate physical pleasure on different levels than an animal and indeed that we "appreciate" it at all, and can associate it with other more abstract meanings, which to our knowledge animals do not, or if so, in a much more rudimentary way. u sound positively puritanical!

Edited by - Tawakalna on 13-11-2003 01:58:49

I guess what the makers of the movie were trying to do is as Tawa said. Show humans doing something that machines cant. I think the distinguishing activity they chose suits me right down to the ground and it doesn't suit you at all spectre.

a little more diplomacy would be appreciated.

That scene meant a lot to me. I'm one of those people who considers myself an animal and nothing more. Just out of curiosity... are u religious spectre? (i don't wanna get into religo discussion.)

peace.

kumari --- "You are ALL my brothers and sisters."

its been a while since ive seen reloaded, but wasnt all this happening when smith was making a few clones of himself? wasnt the contrast glaringly obvious?

and i'm a clubber, i liked the zion dance thing. made a change from goddamn moshers and their rock music and the beats were awesome. a bit of variety children. maybe it went on too long? i think maybe it did but maybe thats the editors fault more than anything else.

@Kumari

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a little more diplomacy would be appreciated.

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Diplomacy never solved any problems, only swift resolute action does. But what we have here is not a problem, but rather a disagreement, which requires no diplomacy nor action on either of our parts as there is nothing that we want from each other.

As for religion with regards to the Matrix, I think it wouldn't be locked or stopped by moderators if it held strictly to the movies. Because the religious imagery is rampant throughout the Matrix series. From Morpheus calling Neo "the one" (which is a translation from the Hebrew word "messiah" and "Neo" attached to it means "the new messiah" ), to the name of the Nebbarkanezzar (however you spell it) a name from the Bible, to the name of Zion. And countless other iconography from the movies.

As long as it stayed on that topic, I don't think anyone would have a problem with it as it is completely fictional though a bit blasphemous. But anyone to take that TOO seriously would probably not be wise to have a discourse with on the subject.


Sir Spectre


... No more signature. <-----Irony

Edited by - Sir Spectre on 13-11-2003 03:18:49

bearing in mind that neo is an anagram of ONE as well and the whole "John the baptist" and "Judas" characters they have in there as well.

personally I think the whole religion thing in the matrix is just a clever red herring. I think its just the story of good and evil taken from the perspective of a machine - ie. virus is evil, anti-virus is good. The references to Zion and the Messiah merely reflect the human trait of forming a religion around something they don't understand....and I believe whole-heartedly that any reference to Judas and John etc were only thrown in by the brothers to make people like ourselves speculate wildly...and to impress themselves.

Douglas Adams and Philip K Dick fans will know that given the right stimulus, you can make a religion out of anything.

Any story involving good and evil can be brought down to the fundamentals of the christian religion (any religion really, but the christian religion specifically)....that is after all why the bible remains to this day translated and understood differently around the world.

Smoke a little cardamine, kick back and watch Kevin Smith's Dogma again, read The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe and come back and see me in the morning

you know what? at peak time yesterday i let 30 people into the matrix, 15 into screen one and screen two. kill bill, seabuscuit and texas chainsaw massacre outsold revolutions by miles

Men are from mars, women from somewhere else

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@Kumari

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a little more diplomacy would be appreciated.
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Diplomacy never solved any problems, only swift resolute action does. But what we have here is not a problem, but rather a disagreement, which requires no diplomacy nor action on either of our parts as there is nothing that we want from each other.

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There's nothing cool about being a smartarse. What i really meant was that your fachism and cynical counter arguments to my beliefs are not appreciated. If you don't agree then be nice about it.

thanks.

kumari --- "You are ALL my brothers and sisters."

@kumari lighten up. Firstly Spectre is in no way a fascist (i believe we've all known him long enough to suss that one out) and secondly, if you're gonna insult regulars then please have the decency to spell your insults properly.

From reading your post I understand that you got a great deal out of the 3rd matrix that a lot of us did not...but there is no need to be offensive in your arguments.

Finally, I have read and reread what has been said on this page and I can't find any reference to ANYBODY attacking your beliefs....unless of course you are planning to begin your own matrix-based suicide cult. Chill.

And just for the record...occasionally it is cool to be a smartarse...

@ff doesn't surprise me to be honest....as much as I loved the matrix trilogy, kill bill is still a better film in my eyes (well better than the last two at least). I'm surprised that any of them are busy during the week in the daytime though!?!

well yesterday was a slow day, but im still surprised that more people went in for those films than the matrix.

Men are from mars, women from somewhere else