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How large is the Universe???

This is where you can discuss your homework, family, just about anything, make strange sounds and otherwise discuss things which are really not related to the Lancer-series. Yes that means you can discuss other games.

Post Mon May 12, 2003 8:37 pm

How large is the Universe???

A classmate of mine stated that the Universe (actual one, not the FL one) is smaller and younger than scientists believe it to be. He also stated that the dinosaurs are only a couple of thousand years old.

Since I tend to chose science over religion, I find this amusing. However I'd like to hear your thoughts on it as talking about space is always fun.

The last words of a merchant: "Don't waste your ammo"

Post Mon May 12, 2003 9:05 pm

the answer to your question has gotta be "BIG!!!"
but seriously how do you measure the size of the universe? where does empty vacuum become absolutely nothing? Infinity and nothingness are difficult concepts to grasp, and for that matter make much in the way of calculations with it!! I'm not sure as feeble minded 3-dimensional humans if we are able to fully comprehend the full nature of the Universe (but we can try our hardest).
If physicists or astronomers have figured it out I'd like to hear about it tho.
Just my two cents

Post Mon May 12, 2003 9:29 pm

If you believe the theory of relativity the universe isn't that big.

because let's say the universe is 15 billion years old
then with the current universal measurement (lightyears) the universe wouldn't even exist beyond the distance of 15.000.000.000 lightyears

but otherwise: (this is my theory)

the universe is to big for us to comprehend so let's look at it dimensionally
we are the 3rd dimension ( length x width x depth )

maybe what we call the "universe" is just the 4th dimensional plane
(length x width x depth x "space-time"

Lord Darth Locutus-

--Embodiment of the Sith--

If all you have to fear is fear itself, then be very afraid of me

Post Mon May 12, 2003 11:45 pm

It is difficult grasp much less come near to comprehending.

The Milky Way's huge compared to our size. To the best of my knowledge, most games and even Star Trek was based in the galaxy. But even if it's 15,000,000,000 in size - that alone will never conquered.

I can definitely see the 4th dimension aspect of how to view it. However, this guy insists the Universe, like the Dinosaurs, is only a few thousand years old. I find it hard to believe considering we're seeing how stars looked 1,000's of years ago.

The last words of a merchant: "Don't waste your ammo"

Post Tue May 13, 2003 2:26 am

If I may quote the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

*Ahem* "Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space. "
There we go...

Post Tue May 13, 2003 3:12 am

I thought some years ago they made some really deep space scans and they found out that there are clusters of galaxies, and somewhere out there, a wall of galaxies...roughly the shape of a humanoid.

I forgot what documentary that was....

Post Tue May 13, 2003 7:28 am

Now, I don't really consider what I am about to say a fact about the size of the universe...I'm just throwing it out there and letting you ppl decide. In the current edition of Scientific American (hehe, a credible source to be sure...lol) they talk about how the universe is itself a fairly small thing (still, it is much larger than most things, and definitely larger than is humanly conceivable, but definitely smaller than infinite)...but that beyond our universe lies an alternate universe...and beyond that alternate universe there is another alternate universe, and so on and so forth. However, (and from this point I am merely speculating) since space-time is curved, we will never actually see these alternate universes because everytime we look in a telescope (a really REALLY mind-bogglingly powerful telescope, mind you) the light coming in will just be going around our own universe and no new light will be coming in from the outer alternate universe. Does that make sense?

In any case, back to the question "How large is the universe???" It is really REALLY friggin' huge. Imagine that you take a pin. Picture the pointy end of the pin is the sun. Now, if you live in a 2-storey 4 bedroom house w/ about 2000 sq. ft, then you could probably imagine your house as being our galaxy. Taking that into consideration, think of all the houses on the planet...now we're thinking universe size. I remember when I was a child (well, more of a child) the whole of the Earth just seemed so huge (heck, going down to the mail-box was a Tolkein-ian trek). In any case, the lesson of the story is this: The universe is so large that if you were to see it in it's entirety, with an arrow shining down on the location where you are in relation to the whole thing, your mind would explode and you would simply fall to the ground quivering. That last sentence was inspired by the aforementioned Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Thanks for all the fish...Cheers.

zlo

Post Tue May 13, 2003 10:56 am

I guess the fairest answer to this question would be "dunno"
Speculation, though, is an interesting exercise of mind.

I don't have a drinking problem. I drink. I get drunk. I fall down. No problem.
(stolen from a local pub)

Post Tue May 13, 2003 11:06 am

What you described Ein, would be a Multiverse, not Universe...
Otherwise, it makes sense, I guess...




CMPT XPBATCKOJ !!!

Post Tue May 13, 2003 12:56 pm

Oook.. so we are going science again..
i quote my sister.. 'it'll be ten zillion time bigger than earth'..
ok..
nvm..
she says she might be wrong..
@unpro.. i also saw that documentry,, a group of astronomers were attempting to map a small section of the universe and they mapped out a cluster of galaxies that looked like a humanoid.. that was interesting.. and they got kids to draw what the universe would look like.. and they all put a pattern in their pictures.
back to the question,
how big is the universe?
i've often wandered about a different question which i will post in a new one later that is related to this..
anyways, the question is, how big is the universe?
we first need to define 'size'. size basically means the amount of space in which something takes up. ( i may be wrong here) therefore, since the universe is made of space mainly, so.. unless there is something beyond what we call the universe, i don't think it takes up any space at all.. but uni-verse.. meaning the sum of everything in existence.. therefore, you could just go around measuring the sizes of everyting in existence and just add them up. but since a certain size takes up space, and we are trying to define how much space there is.. but that isn't exactly the question is it?
ahh.. its full of holes .. like cheese.. anyway, my 2 cents..

Science is knowledge.
Knowledge is power.
Time is money.
power = work/time
therefore, knowledge= work/money
therefore, money = work/knowledge
therefore, money is inversely proportional to knowledge.

therefore,

The more knowledge you have, the less money you have.

Post Tue May 13, 2003 1:04 pm

The best analogy to describe infinity and the topology of the universe:

If you were a one-dimensional lifeform, and you were stuck on a two-dimensional circle, you'd believe your "universe" was infinitely large.

If you were a two-dimensional lifeform, and you were stuck on a three-dimensional sphere, you'd believe your "universe" was infinitely large.

If you were a three-dimensional lifeform, and you were stuck on a four-dimensional hypersphere...

The human brain can't visualize dimensions higher than the three we're familiar with, which is why the mathematical concept of infinity is so plain weird and almost impossible to grasp for most people.

"But if the universe isn't infinite in scope, and is expanding, what is it expanding into ?" is another frequently asked question. There's no easy answer to that one, so I have to resort to an analogy here, too. Picture the universe as a big honkin' human cell - continuously in a state of mitosis but never actually dividing. Instead of multiplying, it grows as new cellular organelles (space) are produced, like a balloon that's being inflated. Now imagine the cell has no boundaries and is looped back in on itself, resembling a tubular Mobius band (this is where the fourth spacial dimension comes in). If you were to venture out to one of its "edges", you'd emerge on the other "end", very simply put.

It's not a matter of philosophy or religion, but of hyperdimensional physics. The universe is - it (spacetime) doesn't have an "outside" in the traditional sense.

zlo

Post Tue May 13, 2003 1:51 pm

We have to admit that our approach is purely homocentric and therefore neither complete nor necessarily correct. The humanoid-shaped cluster of galaxies would look totally different if looked at from a different perspective, IMO. Same goes for the size of the universe - we don't even know WHAT it is, but we already want to measure it.

Post Fri May 30, 2003 11:34 am

I like how Orson Scott Card discribed the universe in his 'Ender' novels: A sphere with an infinite radius, which we are on the outside of.

Post Fri May 30, 2003 12:53 pm

if[i/ (and thats a big if) the universe is 15 billion years old and it expanded in all directions at a constant rate, the universe would be a perfect sphere (if the big bang theory is true and the universe is expanding) then, the universe would be a perfect sphere of radius of 15 billion light years. then again, we have to ask ourselves, did the universe expand at the speed of light? anyways, i'm more interested in what the universe is expanding into, if it is expanding. and whether space [iis truly space time and stuff.then, if space isn't part of the universe, then, when we travel in it, no time? we dun get old ?

Science is knowledge.
Knowledge is power.
Time is money.
power = work/time
therefore, knowledge= work/money
therefore, money = work/knowledge
therefore, money is inversely proportional to knowledge.

therefore,

The more knowledge you have, the less money you have.

Prepare for the worst, for you have read the worst.

Post Fri May 30, 2003 1:49 pm

It's all relative to your thinking, it's obvious that it's pretty freakin big but how big is big? The most common theory is that the universe is constantly expanding and retracting. So you could never get an accurate measurement.

However your classmate is either easily led or a complete idiot, if dinosaurs are only a couple of thousand years old how come thier bones are most commonly found in soil from the cretatious and jurassic periods? and how come humans have never documented any contact with them? From the sounds of it though, he is a creationist, so im not even going to bother....

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