I feel like the economy is in shambles. It's bad enough that we have to deal with it in real life, but in game as well? I don't know how much I like the across-the-board ship item increase, either. When it's coupled with a decrease in profit margin for some trade routes, I get even more nervous. While I won't be overly effected, I recognized it will be a hit for some players. Who uses the routes listed? Players in Gunboats and the Whitestar who can only use docking rings. So, not only are they limited in where they can trade, but also what they'll make on the trade routes available.

There's plenty more irony to be found in the situation as well. I'm sorry to bring this up yet again, MD, but follow me on this:
1. Introduce Gunboats, Drop Ship, and Whitestar with huge cargo holds.
2. Increase cargo holds on all other ships to compete with these new ships.
3. Increase cost of ships to offset gobs of money players are making with the huge cargo holds.
4. Increase the cost of ship equipment to further offset trade profits made from huge cargo holds.
5. Penalize the Gunboats, and Whitestar for having huge cargo holds by decreasing profits of their trade routes.

We've nearly gone full circle, haven't we? Of course, if you've realized your plans for a buyable hyperdrive (or even "warp," then limiting the profitability of some trade routes might well be offset by the time savings these drives offer. Also, you are penalizing anyone who uses a fighter. You've increased prices on all ships and equipment to offset cargo concerns, leaving fighter pilots who rely on random missions struggling more and more to make ends meet.

I'd also like to weigh in on the debate concerning realistic cargo space. I agree with Winston that fighters should have small cargo holds. The only reason they have any at all is for the recovery of scrap during combat (and life pods.) I like the idea that they have to balance their equipment against the cargo space available. It adds an extra element of strategy, imho. I do think that Mk. IV equipment should be doable on any ship, however. We must remember that the armor upgrades are merely a multiplier of the existing armor. Thus a light fighter with Mk IV armor might only have a max of 3000 points, but a VHF could have 24,000. If all ships got the same amount of armor with an upgrade, then I could definitely see a need for limiting the level they could purchase.

This does not cross over to items like the scanner upgrades, however. Thankfully, this is also modeled in the mod already. I have a light fighter that had to balance his upgrades in order to retain some cargo room, and I like that I had to do it (this may have changed after cargo space was altered on all ships.) It seemed right.

If weapons and ammo took up actual cargo space, then fighters would be justified in having larger cargo holds. As that is not the case, any attempt to increase their holds only redefines their purpose. Are they fighters or freighters? It seems odd that the police and navies would be using anything but sleek, efficient, highly maneuverable fighters for their tasks. Just because Freelancers might use their ships doesn't mean that these factions should, or would, build them with Freelancers in mind. They could care less about creating living space or bulky cargo holds. They've got patrol routes to run; and they park their ships at the end of the day, not hie off on long trade runs.

One last thing - why does the Drop Ship have so much cargo space? Anyone who's seen Aliens knows that the cramped interior of the ship is probably no bigger than that of a Mule. Conversely, the Millenium Falcon - an actual freighter with multiple decks, living quarters, and cargo holds, has a quarter of the drop ship's carrying capacity. Tell me something isn't wrong with that picture.

Edited by - Ether Dragon on 11-06-2003 16:40:04

BTW, thanks for the update, MD. Don't be overly concerned by all my questions. I don't pose them because I think you're doing a bad job, only to help insure that all the angles have been covered for any design decisions. You won't be hearing me say that my way is the right way. I generally expect that you've put more effort and thought into all of this than I have, and know what you're doing.

You've made a lot of great changes to the game, and that just ratchets up the excitement for all the future changes we know you're incorporating. I hope my feedback is viewed in the constructive manner it is intended. I have nothing but respect for all the hard work you're doing and it's benefits to the Freelancer community. (That goes for all you other modders too!)

I'll second that

Well, MD .. you have my full support from me about your mod. Even 15 of my friends love your mod. Keep it up, muchacho!

When it gets closer to the release date MD could you post a list of all the changes? Oh by the way, are there going to be anymore VHF and/or Gunboat/Corvette class ships being introduced?

Edited by - SIAST on 11-06-2003 18:47:11

BTW, if you ever do include battleships as playable vessels, please include the luxury liners. Those things are the coolest looking of them all.

@ MD
how's it about the patch, winxp and your mod? I read something by reynan about including parts of the patch in his mod.
My problem is that I'd like to use rebalance in a lan but when running a server on winxp it always crashes after/during a random mission. But when I use fl "pure" with the patch the stability is how it should have been from the start: no crashes.

playing online is possible, no crashes there, even before the patch!

i did aply the patch AFTER your mod! since the other way round it won't work because of the patch.

would another os (w2k...) be better/more stable?

almost forgot: superb work! normal xp is boring!

Edited by - granini on 11-06-2003 19:03:04

Ok. I sent the last version tonight to EB's mail, it is an instalable exe and a patch for mission 8...the patch is included now in the main mod instalation.
Radiation, there will be plenty of opportunities to make a lot of money, first the killed Battheships in random missions always give loot, about 4x25 of tasty commodities, plus a deep scanner 18k worth, and if there are 5 weapons platf there y'ull get 6 deep scanners at a total of 108k!!. this combined ith the reward for the mission and weapon+equip loot, will bring a strike mission to at least 150k. i made money for a Ywing in a test today in 7 missions, from 170k to 1370k, in hokkaido system.
harrier, what do mean...getting the dagger at rochester is easy at lvl 4, and it's on Mactan too...the lane hackers aren't hard to bribe.
Ether Dragon, the Dropship from Aliens 2 was big, at least bigger than a Falcon...it could take a squadron of marines with their equipmenst and their vehicle, and i don't see a truck like that fitting in the falcon. and remember when it crashed, it seems like a falling Boeing 747. anyway probably 400 hold would have been more realistic indeed for the shuttle.
And if fighters had small cargo holds, what about BOMBERS? Remember the Broadsword from WCII? it was HUGE, i loved that ship, and it certainly had a lot of cargo holds. And since in FL sometimes HF and especially VHF can take a Bomber role in Navyes, they have to have more space for everything to cary, ordnannce, armor, bigger engines and powerplants. and also i did not increase the original ships cargo holds too much, about 20-30 units at the most.
As a heavy ship the Voyager and Galaxy transport will be in the mod. The FEDEX truck-freighter will be a starter Freighter.
Granini, nice idea installing the patch after the mod. about making XP better, i make mods, do not improve operating systems like XP. MS does that . Btw i heard that Longhorn it's gonna be full 3D!! :~/. :O nice!


Edited by - Michael Dan on 12-06-2003 07:43:29

New mod New mod! FEDEX! Do the NPCs sign the Delivery Confirmation slips as well?

@MD
if you install the patch after the mod, no cheating detected (guess so) but this was posted somewhere in these forums! not my idea

But what i meant is that reynan posted something in his mod anouncement forum about him cracking up the patch and using it for his mod in some kind. Sounds as if the stability prob might be history afterwards, since the patch and pure fl did it on my maschine... might be something for you improving your gorgeous mod *g* and by the way: waiting for ms to improve wxp might take a loooong time...

which os would you recommend to use with flserver? w2k? just as a dedicated? with or w/out client?

what's this thing about the hyperdrive? i read about it but how can i use it? it's NOT cruise speed, right? is it something to jump from one system to another?

thx for help

Edited by - granini on 12-06-2003 11:05:04

There are no bombers in the Game.
Also the problem with that it Missle and Torpedo Ordinace takes up NO space in the hold. Have a torpedo take up half to one full space in the cargo bay then I'll say give'm more cargo. Maybe a full magazine of missles takes up 5 for 100 shots. Mines same story. Maybe a little less. Also Torpedo Bombers should not handle as well as a fighter of the same class. They should be able to fly straight fast, but turn like a cow.

The broadsword was my favorite ship in the wing commander series. But you cannot say that the craft was manuverable. You would NEVER stay on a light fighters tail, medium fighters would give you some difficulty. heavy fighters were your bread and butter.

Maybe since you are adding Upgrades. You could add either additional Thrusters for greater manuverability, or a general manuverability upgrade.
Also for the armor upgrades, maybe they could come in two flavors. the type you have now. OR say 2 cargo spaces for 500 hp. Or something like that?

Granini, the hyperdrive is only available on two ships in the 1.4b mod; the Y-Wing and Millenium Falcon. The Hyperdrive is indeed a different species than the cruise engine. Where they cruise engine gives you a max speed of 300, the Hyperdrive propels you at Trade Lane speeds (sans rings.)
_____
I agree with Winston on the bomber issue. There are no dedicated bombers in Freelancer. Given that large fighters can carry torpedos, the closest you'll get to a real life reference are torpedo bombers. Torpedos are carried outside the fuselage. The missiles on fighters are likewise carried on the outside of the craft, on wings. They take up no cargo space. The fighters themselves have very little interior cargo space. A backpack behind the seat, perhaps.

The decline of bombers with internal bomb bays like the B-29 is directly attached to the increased lethality of modern fighers. You'll note that the Stealth Bombers carry a much smaller payload than older planes. The primary reason for having the bombs internalized has more to do with stealth characteristics than anything else. Just because they have internalized storage for missiles, you can't consider those compartments for cargo space. At least, not until missile and torpedo ammo take up cargo space in game.

I take issue with the notion that any pilot would empty out their missile bays in order to store extra crates of cargo. Realistically, that would mean that the cargo would be have to be repackaged to fit in these bays specifically engineered to house missiles. Since these bays are also filled with mechanisms for loading missiles into the launchers, what kind of havoc would cargo play in the ability to reload missile tubes? Would you have food rations gumming up the gears?

Edited by - Ether Dragon on 12-06-2003 16:36:06

@ Ether Dragon
thx for the info, which button is it normaly? how to use it? fi found nothing in the readme, or is there some type of "manuall"?

The hyperdrive replaces your "engine kill" ability. It uses the "Z" key by default.

I haven't tried reassigning keys, so I don't know if it's possible to restore the "engine kill" feature. If I had a choice, I think I'd replace the "cruise mode" instead...