Jumping sequence problem (scroll down a bit please, as some

Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:02 pm by Black Eagle

Hi everyone!

I'm currently working on the next version of my mod and got a problem.

I cloned all the story only systems to make them accessable after the story and still keep the story playable. In the Dyson Airlock system (the system with the large plane structure, which in the middle has the jumpgate to the Nomad city) I wanted to make the jumpgate to the Nomad city working. So far everything works, I can dock with the gate, it opens and I jump to the Nomad city system.
The only problem is the following.

When I want to use the gate I start in lets say this position:

I now want my ship to go into the jumpgate straight down (yes this direction and no other), like the red arrow indicates it.

The autopilot now flies the ship and I'm approaching the jumphole:

Everything good so far. Remember I want my ship to go straight down, like the red arrow.

Now comes the docking sequence and my problem.

First the ship is heading straight down as I want it (it follows my red arrow):

But shortly before I jump, the ship somehow turns, as if the jumpgate where orientated wrong:

The red arrow shows the direction I want (look at the blue engine trails and you will see that I just turned), but the ship is going after his nose.

After I encountered this problem, I though that it had to do with the orientation of the jumpgate. As I cannot change this (in the first image you see that it has to fit into the Airlock), I opened up the cmp (data/solar/misc/dyson_door.cmp) and wanted to change the orientation of the hardpoint the ship uses to dock. In the solararch.ini you can see that this hardpoint is the HpDockMountA (Here's the entry):

[Solar
nickname = dyson_airlock2
ids_name = 261954
ids_info = 66800
type = JUMP_GATE
DA_archetype = solar\dockable\dyson_door2.cmp
material_library = solar\Solar_mat_dyson.mat
material_library = fx\envmapbasic.mat
envmap_material = envmapbasic
LODranges = 0, 20000
mass = 10000.000000
open_anim = Sc_open dock
open_sound = gate_open_sound
close_sound = gate_close_sound
jump_out_hp = HpDockMountA
loadout = dyson_door2
solar_radius = 600
shape_name = NAV_jumpgate
docking_sphere = jump, HpDockMountA, 233
hit_pts = 999999961690316250000000000000000000.000000

Now I tried to change the orientation of this hardpoint, but no matter what I do I cannot get it so that the jumpgate sucks me in heading straight down.

When I open up the cmp in utf editor I get this for the HpDockMountA:

Position:
X = -1.72175
Y = -287.195
Z = -2.43577

In my opinion this can stay unchanged, as it is only the position and will not help me, or am I wrong?

Orientation:
X = 0
Y = 89
Z = 0

This has to be change, I think. But I'm not sure how. I first thought that I had to change Z and tried 89 and 179 (it's always one less, therefore not 90 and 180), but this did not make a difference. The ship still turned (in a different direction now, but still not straight down).
I also tried many other settings, but did not get it.

So, I need your help. How can I make the jumpgate so that my ship goes straight down into it.
I need this, because I also want to use this the other way (from the Nomad city back to the Airlock system) and because the current setting with the turning sometimes has bugs (When I jump back from the Nomad city I sometimes come out under the Airlock).

So, please help me with this!

Many thanks!

Black Eagle

Edited by - Black Eagle on 8/3/2005 5:03:54 PM

Edited by - Black Eagle on 8/4/2005 9:07:15 AM

Edited by - Black Eagle on 8/5/2005 5:27:18 PM

Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:09 pm by Manhattan_Guy

Well, how is it done in the storyline? Does your ship turn there, too?

Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:22 pm by FriendlyFire

In the storyline, it uses another way of changing systems, because there is no jumping sequence.. The airlock opens and you see a little pic, you enter and the little pic disappears to let you see the nomad city. I think it uses some kind of trigger.

Still, nice work Black Eagle. Sorry I can't help out...

Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:57 pm by Mace_166

I don't really know, but i don't think its the orientation. If the jump gate has been rotated 90 degrees over then the HpMountA should have been rotated with it. If you increased the jump distance would you get the same effect?
It might just be the ship levelling out, its probably hardcoded to before docking. Sorry probably not want u want to hear..

Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:38 pm by Thaddeus

I did this awhile back for my own mod,
I added four new nodes,

HpDockPointB02
postion
x = 0
y = 277
z = 0
orientation
x = 89
y = 89
z = 0

HpDockPointB01
postion
x = 0
y = 117
z = 0
orientation
x = 89
y = 89
z = 0

HpDockMountB
postion
x = 0
y = -7
z = 0
orientation
x = 89
y = 89
z = 0

HpXX01 (jumpout point)
postion
x = 0
y = -125
z = 0
orientation, this is probably wrong due to HardCMPs inability to read 90 degree angles, I would think in truth it would be 89,89,0 again, but as written
x = 180
y = 89
z = -1

And the code

[Solar
nickname = dyson_airlock
type = JUMP_GATE
DA_archetype = solar\misc\dyson_door.cmp
material_library = solar\Solar_mat_dyson.mat
LODranges = 0, 20000
mass = 10000.000000
loadout = dyson_door
open_anim = Sc_open dock
open_sound = gate_open_sound
close_sound = gate_close_sound
jump_out_hp = HpXX01
solar_radius = 600
shape_name = NAV_jumpgate
docking_sphere = jump, HpDockMountB, 225
hit_pts = 999999961690316250000000000000000000.000000

It seems to work alright on these settings, I know myself from fiddling with settings it takes ages to get these things sorted. If you want the modified Cmp give me a shout and I'll email it.

Edited for positive y number on jumpout point

Edited by - Thaddeus on 8/4/2005 1:39:07 AM

Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:10 am by Black Eagle

Hi!

Many thanks Thaddeus! But somehow it does not work for me. Now the jump in sequence goes straight upwards and I want to go down (Yes also after changing the y value to positive).
However I noticed something strange. After I saved the cmp with the new hardpoints, UTF Editor somehow changed the values in orientation. I don't know why, but I can change them again with the right values, but if I open them up again, UTF Editor shows other values again. However I'm not sure what it is and they maybe mean the same and are just written in another way (like with degrees, where you can say -90 or 270).

It would be great if you could send me your cmp by mail, so that I can try if it works with yours.

One more thing: What are the two HPDockPoint hardpoints for? I cannot see where they are used. Maybe I also forgot something I need them for.

Edit: And again one other thing: What loadout do you have for the gate? You named it dyson_door I think, but what is it? I just gave it an infinite_power and a scanner. Do I need something else?

Thanks again!

Black Eagle

Edited by - Black Eagle on 8/4/2005 2:13:31 AM

Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:27 am by Manhattan_Guy

If I remember correctly, the DockPoints are waypoints on the path the ship flies towards the respective DockMount. With them one can define the direction from which a ship is to fly towards the docking point, no matter which direction it came from when the docking sequence was started.

Ah, right, in the story mission it uses a script to switch between the systems.

Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:38 am by Thaddeus

I now realise it is pointless reading oreintations off the cmp editor...

Well, the y postion should be negative (thats what I edited) thats why youre going back up.

The other two dockpoints are lead-ins, with bases and jumpgates the autopilot will line up on dockpoint02 carry you thru to dockpoint01, then to dockmount where the cut scene is enabled and you jump out at the jumpout point. Its the jumpout point which is badly angled, I just tried these numbers on my own and I ended up going in Backwards!!.

loadout is the standard loadout, infinite_power + scanner02, I was toying with the notion of making the door into a base dock for a custom base. Make the base, cut a big round hole in it, slap in the dyson door as a seperate object, there you have it, custom base with docking door animation. May still do that yet.

checked the cmp again and I do go in straight, lol, email sent

Edited by - Thaddeus on 8/4/2005 3:09:29 AM

Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:58 am by Black Eagle

Hi again!

Many thanks again Thaddeus (also for the two basde models. They are really useful to me!). I tried your cmp and it worked a bit better. But there are still some problems. It's not that bad, but it would be great if I could also get rid of these.

Okay, lets jump again

Directly in the beginning of the docking sequence, we can see one small mistake:

The 'lightring', which appears in the gate faces the wrong direction (see the red arrows). Not downwards, but to the side. However I might already know a possible solution. In jumpeffects.ini it is defined on which hardpoint this visula effect appears. This is normally the 'FX1' hardpoint. But the door model does not have such a hardpoint and it seems as if the effect would be on the jumpout HP. Remember this as I will come back to it later!

Now we go on. At first it goes well. Straight down:

And the jump starts also in the right direction (finally)

:

But unfortunately then I'm flying out of the jump tube, so it seems that the ship still has to turn, but now it just turns later. Not before the docking sequence as in my first post, but afterwords in the jumptube and therefore it gets out of it:

This is another visual glitch, but it looks really weird.

And now we come back to the wrong orientated lightrings. If I jump back from the Dyson Sphere, I come out of the jumphole in the opposite direction. In fact, I want to come out going straight up (like the red arrow):

It is really important that I come out going up, as otherwise I will sometimes arrive under the Dyson Airlock and cannot go anywhere. I'm simply stuck then and this is a major bug I cannot let in my mod.

In my opinion the only thing that is still wrong has to be the orientation of the jump out point. The light ring faces to the side and I jump out in the opposite direction. So, if I could get the light ring to face down, I would probably jump out up. This would be perfect.

But, as I saw that I'm totally crap in editing the orientation, I hope that you can help me. Whichg orientation would make me jump out up (If the lightring still is wrong it doesn't matter. The important thing is that I jump out going up!)?

Many thanks for your help and I hope I'm not wasting your time too much

Black Eagle

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:36 am by Thaddeus

I know what you mean by the light ring on jumpout. I had the same problem on that as well. I think I got round it by using the jump_effect = jump_effect_hole rather than the gate bretonnia style effect in the system entry.

Most of models specially gates are horizontal in nature getting them to work vertically is quite a challenge. With the normal gates and holes ships will spawn in a vertical disc around the plane of the jumpmount. So with the door you will sometimes appear below the floor. I dont know if this is curable. I gave up in the end and made two gates/paths, the outputs based on the invisble nomad_airlock holes and gave them the visit =128 line so they didnt show on the nav map.

As for the appearing outside the warp tunnel, I still havent been able to cure that. Again it could be down to the horizontal/vertical mismatch. If you find a fix send me a line

Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:40 am by Black Eagle

Okay thanks again Thaddeus!

You already did much for me. I will try to get it working and if so, I will let you know.

So, to everyone else (especially all the hardpoint masters, who know much about orientation and so on). I'm trying to search for a solution, but I could need your help with this, as I already put so much work in this and did not get it to work.

I just need to know how I have to set up the orientation of the jump out point of my jumpgate so that I jump out going up (not horizontal like normally). Or maybe I have to do something else.

Please help me and thanks for any answers!

Black Eagle

Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:43 pm by Black Eagle

Okay, hi again!

I'm giving up! But only because I have a sort of a solution and I think also some answers. !!! And there is still one question I need your help with this (see at the end of the post please!) !!!

As I'm quite good at vector mathematics (It's because I like it. ... I know that I'm strange

I had the idea to just edit the cmp of the dyson door in UTF-Editor. I made some hardpoints for ships already and this was not too hard.

I started with the cmp from vanilla FL and directly got my ship docking right (going straight down). I know that Thaddeus also got this in his cmp, but I made it again to be sure that I still get the format in UTF-Editor. So this is working good now.
But now comes the next thing. When I jumped back from the Dyson Sphere, I was still coming out of the door in a horizontal direction. As you know I wanted to come out vertical, going straight up.
Now, in my opinion it is not possible to make the ship jump out of a jumphole vertical by editing the cmp (meaning any hardpoint and it's position or orientation). This is because I tried different orientations on the jump out hardpoint and afterwords on any hardpoint of the cmp and I came out horizontal everytime!!! So this should be the proof that coming out of a jumphole horizontal is not possible (at least not by editing the cmp).

Okay, now for my solution: As I'm jumping in correctly now (The effect is also okay now, as I used the jumphole effect, which is not going into any direction), the only thing was jumping out. For this I created a new invisible jumphole directly over the dyson door. This jumphole is invisible and not targetable, but you will jump out of it, when jumping back from the Dyson Sphere. This jumphole I just rotated, so that my ship is now coming out in vertical direction going straight up, just as I want it.

So, all major bugs are fixed now:

- I'm entering the jumpgate correctly
- I jump back correctly coming out vertical, so that the ship can never get under the dyson airlock

I know I should be glad that it works this way (again thanks to Thaddeus for your help even if I did not used it in the files now, but you opened my eyes a bit

But as some might already know, I like to make my mod perfect and there is one last thing that I want to get rid of.

In this picture you can see what:

During the jumping sequence my ship is still going out of the jumptube. I want it to go inside of it like normally.

Does anyone know what I could do to make this possible? I just had the following ideas:

- either it has also to do with the model of the dyson door. But I don't know what exactly to change there then.
- maybe I can also solve the problem by editing the Data/Fx/gate_tunnel.ini. I know that this is more about the appearance of the gate tunnel, but I do not understand all of the lines there (e.g.:num_spline_control_points = 9) and it might be possible to do something here.

So, please help me with this last problem and thanks again for all your help!

Black Eagle

Edited by - Black Eagle on 8/5/2005 5:28:47 PM

Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:26 am by Manhattan_Guy

If rotating the jumphole did the job, why don't you rotate the entire cmp of the dyson airlock 90 degrees and then rotate the model minus 90 degrees in ths INI again. The position and orientation should remain the same but now you should come out horizontally (because of the rotation).

Right or wrong?

Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:23 am by Black Eagle

Hi Manhattan_guy!

If I understood you right you think about rotating the dyson door model in the systems ini file. I also thought about this, but there is one problem with this. The dyson door has to fit into the dyson structure (the large plane). So I also would have had to rotate this structure and the whole system. This however would still be possible, I even began to rotate the whole system, but then I encountered my problem. The Navmap would be srewed up, as FL is not made for 3D systems and all the things would be one over the other on the Navmap.
So rotating the model of the door in the system is not possible. Therefore I had to rotate the hardpoints inside of the model, but as I said this did not have any effect of me coming out of the gate, when jumping back.

Anyway thanks for the idea (I hope I understood you right, because I'm not totally sure if it is this was ou meant. If not, maybe you can explain it again. Notfalls auch in deutsch)!

If anyone else can help me please post here!

Black Eagle

Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:44 am by Manhattan_Guy

Not exactly. I suggested to rotate the dyson door in the INI-file. But then you rotate the model in the CMP-file in the opposite direction (and moving the hardpoints). The two rotations should neutralize each other and the door fits perfectly. But because you rotated the door in the INI you should come out horizontally. Cuz from what you said rotating the jumphole did the job. The rotation in the CMP is just to maintain the right orientation of the door.

Of cource this is all just theoretical.

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