i think what's more annoying is when people get offended by other people's requests and questions. Not everybody knows every damn thing. Give them and me, a break. Jeez.

I usually don't reply to topics like this, but the spam is a real problem on this board. I agree that people should stop requesting mods all the time, I think most of the active modders on the forum have their hands full with the SWTC or Babylon 5 or one of the others. I completely understand the request for a skinner (because I've just started skinning and man is it tedious and hard) but instead of requesting someone to do their work for them, people should check out the tutorials or check the internet for a texturing tutorial. I didn't have the slightest idea how to start texturing and was referred by rapid to a very good tutorial for Milkshape... and those people that constantly ask how to change stats need to get their heads out of the ground. This forum has come a long way even in the short time that I've been here - that tutorial forum is priceless. Instead of blowing off people who ask questions that are already answered, we should just tell them to look there instead of spoonfeeding them everything. They'll be better modders in the long run that way anyway... OK, that's my $0.02!

~ Daekar

Genius, in a special way you´re right. But if you say "don´t ask this" etc., nearely nobody will ask anything in the future and this isn´t the sense of this forum.

You should never say people, especially to the newer ones on the boards, to shut up, because this is a silly question. Even if you see the same questions day for day. Say the person, that the question was already asked, give a link to the answer and be politely, all the time (even if you really want to kick his ass... ).

But you (especially the board Admins) could do something against this. The only thing, they have to do is to add a subforum, where leaders of different mods can post that they need e.g. a texture artist.

That´s my opinion!

Edit: Ok, there is already a mod announcement Forum, but then give a link to this forum and say, that he/she shall please ask such questions in this forum. And remember, be politely...all the time!


Dryx-Thelon

Edited by - Dryx-Thelon on 21-04-2003 03:54:47

While I may be guilty of asking questions already asked, it is only after I have Ctrl-F-ed the forum page and clicked the search forum link at the top and searched to the point of utter utter boredom without finding anything.

For everyone who uses the excuse "Leave me alone! I'm new here!" there is a simple reply:
The people here at this board have predicted your very well thought out excuse and posted a sticky thread at the top of the page titled Read Before Posting

I TOTALLY agree here. If you see someone ask a question post them a link to the result. I've had to get this done for me twice because sometimes topic headers have nothing to do with their comments. Or, like I've seen a couple times, a question is answered in a totally unrelated topic.

Just saying STOP SPAMMING isn't the answer. Perhaps creating a seperate forum for "MOD REQUESTS" would solve the immediate issue. But if someone is trying to ask a question because they are making a mod which will improve the fun of the game, which we're all here to do, then don't rip them up simply because they couldn't find the answer to their question. That's just rude.

And that's my 2 cents.

~Jay~

I've just had the most disturbing encounter with a mad woman on the Holodeck. - Holographic Doc

Several very good points have been made here. Speaking as someone who's only been here a couple of weeks (like the majority of people who have come snooping around with the release of the game), a couple of things are clear:

1) It's far, far, FAR FAR FAR easier to find what you're looking for now that there actually IS a Search Forums option. Before they put that back, it was absolute hell finding something out. You'd see something interesting, and want to go back to it, but have no idea where it was. OH NO! It's burried in an un-related thread! All you have to do now, though, is think of one or two important keywords, plug them into the search, and search ALL of the boards. The all boards feature to the search is a God-send!

2) This is possibly the nicest modding community I've come across. You're not afraid to ask questions here. Sometimes, in other communities, especially older ones (not to offend any SL folks), if you're new, and you ask a question, you get flamed. Especially if it's about something that can't be done. You get the feeling that people are sore over such things, because they've failed to figure out something that the game engine just may not be able to do. Sure, maybe it's been asked a million times, but it was probably asked months or even years ago. But since it's come up again, you're public enemy number one, simply because you didn't notice the search link hidden way up/down in that corner.

3) People (in general too, but for the current discussion here) DO need to be a LITTLE more self-reliant. Want to know how to do something basic? Look under the Tutorial forum before the General forum. Want to know how a utility works? Utility forum. It's not like they're hidden. Want to know about cloaking? By all means, ask away...but do NOT demand to be handed the Cloak MOD. A simple CTRL-F will give you the Cloak string, and all you have to do is read the last few posts to see if it exists or not. Remember, this is a text based forum, and it's sometimes very hard to convey your tone of voice. If you think you might sound like you're demanding, rephrase what you're saying.

No one should be discouraged from learning aboud modifying their game files, especially new people. The community simply doesn't grow when you talk down to them. With new, more specific forums opened up now this place can be more open to people asking the same questions over and over again. I, for one, who have no ability to dive deeper into the game files than the inis, am more than happy to help newbies out, since I can't be productive on the front lines. I've learned a lot and have greatly enjoyed my past 3 weeks here, so it's the least I can do to lighten the load on people busier than I.

Peace out!

Well I joined this forum a week ago and have been active in it ever since. I read the please search before posting threads when i arrived and I did use the search option a hell of a lot, several times a day in fact.

However, having used that search option I know this forum has not got all the answers to simple questions posted. What makes it even worse, some guides people believe are complete and are using as a basis for "Dont spam posts" are far from being complete. They are just cut and pastes and make users believe the answers do exist with actually they dont.

For instance. Find me the following information in the system guide.

How to add bases.
How to add Rooms to Bases.
How to add Novas and Asteriods.
How to add Planets.
How to add Factions.
How to add tradelanes.
How the system grid works out (i posted this my self).

So when somebody asks a question about systems and somebody says they should do a search of the forum I for one get deeply annoyed because I have searched the forum and those answers don't exist. Ok the base one exists in part but its not complete. I figured the rest out my self by taking what little i could find by searching and cross referencing what has been posted with my own research. In many cases the posters where not even talking about the same things I needed to know about.

EG i learnt how to add planet names info cards for bases from zens ship guide.

The people calling others spammers, really should do those searches them selves before they put their own foot in their mouth and start pointing the finger else where.

Sorry, but i felt that had to said.

Once my first mod is out, I intend to write a proper guide and fix this situation once and for all. Explaining the parts other guides just paste in and ignore yet remain import. Right now im trying to figure out how to get asteriod fields to show up in a system, my first area to check is id names and info. See if that works.

In the mean time i wish people would stop calling cut and paste examples from the original ini files guides unless they add the extra info needed to understand them.

Wants to see a good guide with some room for improvement ?
Try this.

http://forum.duwx.com/viewthread.php?tid=44

In the meant time, when you create a new system, heres a list of files i currently know need editing. Excluding the DLL for now which i have made my self.

Data/initialworld.ini
Data\COCKPITS\Liberty\atranny.ini (new file) (ship related)
Data\EQUIPMENT\goods.ini (ship related)
Data\EQUIPMENT\market_commodities.ini
Data\EQUIPMENT\market_misc.ini
Data\EQUIPMENT\market_ships.ini
Data\UNIVERSE\universe.ini
Data\UNIVERSE\SYSTEMS\Your system and systems you link too.
Data\UNIVERSE\SYSTEMS\your syste,\BASES\ROOMS\ your rooms.

To setup factions you need these.
Data\Missions\empathy.ini
Data\Missions\faction_prop.ini
Data\Missions\formations.ini
Data\Missions\mbases.ini

To put asteriods in a system and nebulas you need to be following folder and edit the examples in there. Heres mine.
DATA\SOLARDATA\SOLAR\NEBULA\yo01_frankjg_smog_cloud.ini (Newfile)

I think you will agree, most of that list is not even mentioned in the system guide. Still, if people are happy with seeing copies Manhattan planets in every system and copies of bases named Fort Bush everywhere than i suppose its ok.

Giskard

The purpose of a tutorial is neither to chew other people's food for them nor to cover every aspect of modding, it's to build a basic framework on which they can expand with their OWN ideas and imagination. "Teach a man to fish" and all that.

But the point was that a good number of tutorials DO just copy and paste stuff from the ini. What good is a list of numbers if you don't know what they're for? Take some of the battleship tutorials, for example. It's all just lines to copy into your own shiparch.ini, but if you wan't to add other ships you have to sit there, trying to figure out which lines need to be added and which lines don't. Sure, you get a battleship out of it, but you don't learn anything new. Essentially, we're being given the fish, not the rod. And with most of the NPC ships added like that, they're given names like my_li_battleship, or my_ship_that_you_cant_use_until_now, so you don't really know what part of the shiparch.ini to look into compare what's new to that entry. So, you've given the man the fish, and told him about this "rod" thing, but you haven't shown him how to make the rod and how to use it.
Let's not forget that some of the tutorials are so out of date that they list things that are quite simple to do as "We don't know how to do this, this, or this" or "I don't know what this or that means".

So yeah, teach a man to fish and he'll feed himself for life. But give a man a fish and tell that you can catch more, and you just leave him confused and dependant.

Nephilim: Your right, teach them to fish etc.

However, my point is that they give them rod but dont tell them how to use it. Much of whats been put into guides is neither complete nor explained. A good guide might only touch on the parts the reader must edit but it would still touch all parts. The guides ive read dont even come close to touching on all parts.

Anyway, i put my money where my mouth is and posted a whole heap of extra info about systems that should expand that area atleast.

I even added keywords at the top so simple searches will reveal the thread.

Giskard

Edited by - giskard on 21-04-2003 22:02:51

Great posting Ut and Giskard , you tell them!
I often think people can sometimes be totally anti-social in an "i'm uber l33t" kind of way, and this doesn't help the community at all. Ideas need to be shared and questions need to be asked. It shouldn't be all "take take take" and "i know so much i don't need to help these noobs". It's about giving and helping one and other too.

Needs to be said - and you guys said it superbly well. Bravo!

Edited by - Mercenary on 21-04-2003 22:40:10

Ok guys, I feel your pain. I know I have my self been less than helpful to new modders asking questions answered in the guides. What we need is REAL guides. I propose we start threads explaining what each line in a files does. Make these sticky and closed so that people can't add to them, and make it so that if you learn something new, you can have it added by contacting the person in charge of the thread.

Something along the lines of:

st_good.ini

[Good - Defines the type of item.
nickname = ge_s_thruster_01 - The name of the item
equipment = ge_s_thruster_01 - Another name of the item
category = equipment - what type of item. Equipment, Commodty, etc.
price = 500 - The base price of the item
item_icon = equipment\models\commodities\nn_icons\EQUIPICON_thruster.3db - The Icon used in the scan screen
combinable = false - Can you stack these?
ids_name = 263737 - The name of the item in the resource.dll
ids_info = 264737 - The description of the item in the resource.dll
shop_archetype = equipment\models\st\ku_thruster.3db The icon used in the purchase screen.
material_library = equipment\models\ku_equip.mat - The textures used to render the item.

This would let people know what specific entries mean, and what changing them might accomplish.

While you see these occasionally, would anyone be interested in a comprehensive set of these?

Thanks,

Ceylon

Whats needed is for people to do the searches others didnt do when they ask stupid questions and post a link with a note that a search by the poster would have been faster than a search by the person replying to the post.

If the person doesnt find anything then he knows the question is a good one and can answer it properly.

More details are needed on a lot of thing though, thats for sure. For me the following things need explaining (until i look deeping into them, perhaps tomorrow).

Getting solar objects to show up on the system map as found when you see them for the first time.

Getting missions to work in new systems.

Some mucking around with new factions too, currently working on this, Im at the testing stages.

Still the new mods coming along and in less than week ive learnt a lot about the game by research, forum searches & endless crashes. It wouldnt be so bad if there was some debug tools or if Freelancer and the Server exe actually exited correctly instead of leaving 2 processes in memory that prevent you from running freelancer again without manually removing them first.

Nor would things have been so bad if id remember that biniqdu is a quick and dirty hack and not such a good idea to push my luck by running two instances of it at the same time or forgetting to check the name of the file i want to save against the name of the file listed in the save box or the current directory lol.

Lost hours of work because of that hehe.

I think it would BIG improvement if people stopped trying make system editors and made a decent ini editor to replace biniqdu. I see too many great half finished ideas go under but an really good ini editor would go down well everywhere and shouldnt be hard to do either.

Giskard

this issue will COMPLETELY DISAPPEAR the day there's a comprehensive, regurlarly updated guide to modding FL.
any takers?


i prplx