The Future of Freelancer (minor spoiler)

Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:03 am by uly

Let's face it, Freelancer, as it stands, is screaming in excruciating pain for an expansion. I've seen this issue mentioned time and again, such as this post and this post in the spoiler forum. I think that the points raised are really too agonizingly true and apparent: once you've gotten your Eagle or Sabre, or maybe Titan, visited all the places, there's aboslutely nothing more you can do that would generate any fun. The missions are really absurdly boring, invariably boils down to "go here and kill them", as there is really no difference between "kill ships" and "assassination", etc. And if not for the meager wage they pay, there really is no distinction from just any random encounters. This is especially puzzling considering that the single player missions are actually quite varied and mostly interesting. I would think that, for the time it took Digital Anvil to develop this game, they could have at least put some escort, delivery, or recon missions. Well, not that I'd be all that thrilled about escort, delivery and recon missions, but at least it's something else. They really could have make better use of that race track in Dublin, though.

There is also no incentive to be a merchant other than to make enough money to not be a merchant anymore. These trade runs are really more of a chore we do only so we can get our very own Sabre. Once that is achieved, money become essentially useless. Granted, the FL universe is huge, and hunting Nomads ain't easy. But no matter how big Sirius is, it's finite, and once you got a hold of Nomads' guns, everything fall like a mosquito. To that end, I would like to add another issue: the shallowness of the combat system.

I've read a review somewhere that described Freelancer as the Diablo of space sim, and I think most of us can appreciate this notion. Sadly, though, what makes Diablo Diablo is that with it's simplistic basis, it was able to create huge variety of playing styles. On the other hand, every Freelancer's goal in life is to get their dirty hands on that sassy Sabre or Eagle, or Titan for the aesthetically retarded, often by making massively ludicrous Gold trades, and then hunt for the ultimate weapons. Eventually, everybody end up with the same loadout: Nomad guns, Wyrm II's, Advanced Thruster, etc. And though you may favor Titan's sturdiness over Eagle's agility, it really doesn't change how you fight all that much. To put it simply, what I'm trying to say is that there is a "best loadout" in this game, and that, IMHO, is a gigantic no-no in an open ended game that FL is supposed to be.

Honestly, I can't say I'm not happy to fly an Eagle with 2 Nomad Cannons, 2 Blasters, 2 Wyrm II's, Adv. Brigandine Shield, Sunslayer Torp, Reaper Mine, and all the other goodies that can easily mow down a handful of Titans, and that it handles almost just as well as any light fighters. But it's really not too exciting to find out that everyone else basically pilots the exact same ship. Well, yeah, there is all these crap about laser/particle/tachyon, but the difference is really minimal, and completely meaningless once you get a hold of the L10 guns. And, yeah, maybe you don't like to aim and like missles instead of guns, but you won't once you see how much punch a Nomad gun can give.

Again, all these should be acceptable if FL is strictly a single player game, but it's not. It's basically guarenteed that you'll start meeting tons of your evil twins once you get on MP servers, and it's only well known that all the top players fly Sabres. I can hardly imagine how utterly boring when the MMO version of FL is launched. This game has only been on my harddrive for several days and already, after a few marathon sessions, I'm out of things to do with it. Make no mistake, I absolutely cherished every moment I spent on this game, as it was really some of the best I've ever had with a PC game. All I can say is that I wish there's more. This SP shortage can usually be dealt with by going MP, but as I've said, it'd only made FL's lack of depth even more obvious.

At the risk of repeating myself way too many times, I have to say that Freelancer, having been out for only a few days, is already screaming for an expansion. This expansion must not only add more missions, more stories, and more systems, but must also make it possible to play these missions, stories and systems differently; make it meaningful to fly a light figher instead of a Titan, make it possible to distinguish oneself as a heavy gunner, make combat more than just flying frantically while trying to keep the red circle on the red cross, make it possible to be someone that's not just another Edison Trent.

It's been announced that Digital Anvil's next step in the FL project is the MMO version. I'd say that, until these problems are fixed, MMO Freelancer is bound to be a complete failure. Afterall, what's the point of playing online if you're just gonna end up doing the same things as playing alone?

Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:15 am by ElectricBrain

There is no MMO of Freelancer.

Though, I do agree with you, you are forgetting about mods.

But an expansion for FL or some sort of patch is most certainly something Freelancer really needs.

- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

Edited by - ElectricBrain on 03-03-2003 09:16:39

Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:31 am by Arch0n

I have to agree with you, on what was such a highly anticipated game, to be let down by a lack of scope. The game was touted as an "epic" limitless game much like Elite, but from what I have been reading on the forums is the opposite. The demo is quite visually impressive, but without better space combat it still pales in comparisson to Elite.

One suggestion though. To make the game more interesting would it be possible to modify the .ini files to completely remove the level constraints, so that as a level 1 newb as long as you have the cash you can pilot the Titan et al?
It would still limit you to the Newyork system, but if it could also be modded to allow jump gate access at level 1...

It is something I will be looking into once I get home from work.

Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:48 am by MONSTA604

id say the addition of more battleships and npc freelancers (like players) whith no specific occupation or even simple space buses or family ships to the traffic should be the aim for an expansion or paatch. (sorry super run-on sentence)

Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:10 am by uly

Oh, ElectricBrain you're right, there's no MMO FL. Don't know why I remembered it that way. The same problems still stand though.

As for capital ships... I'd definitely love to be able to fly them but I think it'd be so problematic to balance them that it would require much more than tweaking the stats and wouldn't really be feasible. Plus the control scheme should be very different as well.

As far as balancing goes, I think the trading margin should be significantly reduced and freighter cargo significantly increased, so that only trading with freighters would really make sense. The distinction between light fighters and heavy fighters should also be more pronounced, instead of just stronger and weaker, which means light fighters should be given some improvements, such as better speed, handling and sensor range. Talk about which, I really don't know why there' isn't a radar on the HUD. Funny. As of right now, there's really no reason at all to fly a light fighter: they only handle a little better but are much, much weaker. Also, if a light fighter runs into a group of heavies, it's basically dead meat. I'd think escape should be a real viable option. Right now whether one can escape basically depends solely on whether the enemy has cruise disruptor. This, of course, should also be another differentiating feature. Either a limited number of ships can mount disruptors, or disruptors should be mutually exclusive more than just torps. For example, player can choose between mounting a disruptor, a torp, a mine launcher, 2 more guns, extra power, extra shield, etc. To put it simply, players should be made to make choices, and these choices should all be substantial as well as viable.

All in all, I think it's necessary for people to be able to assume different roles, so that it'd really make sense for people to team up in MP. For example, a group of fighters can escort a freighter, or light fighters scouting ahead of a group of heavies, or maybe only limited ships can mount torpedos, which must be escorted by fighters to destroy the battleships, etc. In addition, pirate raids should be less frequent, but more severe when they occur, thus making escort necessary and meaningful. It'd be great, too, if it's possible to fight capital ships outside of SP missions, even though I can't really think of a way to justify it within the gameworld. But really, there is a huge lack of epic battles in MP, and like I've mentioned before, swarms of Ace Corsairs won't last for a minute when you're mounting 4 Nomad badasses. Nomads... Jesus, there really hasn't been such an unbalanced weapon since BFG10K... It should at least require lots of power or something.

I'm not so sure if I should be saying these things to the developers or mod makers. From my very limited experience, I'm glad to say that FL seems to be very easily modifiable. Still, most of these things should have been done by the developers and not players. I really can't begin to comprehend how they could possibly spend all these time making the game yet forget such fundamental, which should also be relatively easy to fix. It looks as though they spent little to no time balancing the game. I mean, out of the 31 ships only a quarter are really worth flying, and even less if not for the level constraints.

Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:08 pm by Audhumbla

If you want an mmorpg versin of FL, i played the demo of earth and beyond - its basically the same game only mmorpg, and with more scope.

i personally prefer FL because i dont like having ot pay per month aswell and i like to be able to play at my leaisure, not wait on other people on the net.

besides single player and small multiplayer games are much more fun because of the storyline factor.

Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:30 pm by Cleric

I agree that they need to add more variety to the random missions. I also hope that they'll really consider extending the main SP campaign by about 5 more missions, (13 is just way too short). If they added a few scripted missions you could get from each faction that would give more play time as well. I think jump gate access at level 2 and free access to all the systems, would help make the game more enjoyable also.

They could make the gameplay more varied by adding speed differentials to the different ships and by putting the engine, hull and other upgrades that were removed from the game back in, but by making them very hard to get, or tied to a particular faction.

An idea I had, (that in IMHO could make things more interesting), would be to allow you to "Lock On" to larger objects with your tractor beam and tow them to a base. I thought of this when I found "The Aggressor". It would be great if there were maybe a half dozen "unique" ships, scattered around the universe, that you could "Tow" to a base and have repaired, (at a high cost) then be able to fly. By allowing tractor beams to "Tow" things in this manner, they could also give missions where you go out to a disabled freighter or cruise liner, fight off the attackers, then "Tow" it back to a base. With all the bandits flying around, there should be no shortage of ships in distress! Additionally, being able to "Pick up" missions from distress calls would also seem to be "Made To Order" for this game. I don't know why they're not in there.

And they really need to add a way for the player to own more than one ship! I don't want to "lose" my fighter if I decide I want to do some freight runs. As it stands now, the only time you'd want to buy a freighter is at the beginning of the game, but with access to the different systems blocked, it's really not worth it even then. By the time the other systems open up enough to make cargo runs interesting, you've got a good fighter and some good weapons and there's no way you want to lose them just so you can buy a freighter to do some cargo runs.

Also, I'd love to see them change it so that bandits respawn more slowly, over time. It's frustrating to go into an area, clean out a mess of Rouges, Junkers, etc., only to find that they're back in full force when you fly through the same area on your next mission. It would be nice if they had alternating "Hot Spots" of bandit activity, and if it took them a little while to build their numbers back up in an area after you'd cleaned it out.

Now, don't take this as an "I hate Freelancer" post or anything like that. I'm just pointing out some serious shortfalls in the game, that I hope will be addressed by MS and DA. The potenital is there for this to be one of the greastest space games ever, but as it stands now, it's just not living up to it's hype.

Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:58 pm by foolhardy

They need to look at what FPS's are doing for the multiplayer. NPC's arent nearly as challenging as real players. With that said, FL needs some sort of deathmatch or CTF mode. What about a Counter-Strike like idea, where one side could be Libery police and the other Libery Rogues. You can choose who you want to play as, the rogues have some mission and the police have to stop them. Outcasts that are played by real players trying to blow up a convoy and the other players are trying to protect it.

Once I get the game I'm going to look into modding some sort of Deathmatch or CTF mode. I think that would really increase the longevity of this game. Because once like you said you have all the gadgets and gizmos what else is there to do? I'd like to be testing my dofighting skills against real players using the ship I created against thier ships. Even if they have the same loadout, it doesn't matter, you still have to use your skill to win.

Mon Mar 03, 2003 6:39 pm by uly

Some interesting ideas there, Cleric. It'd be cool if, other than being a mercenary and merchant, you could make a career out of scavaging. But for that to be possible the has to be some sort of randomized surprises, though, otherwise it would be just the same as freighters are like now: useful only until you get the better ships. Anyway, FL definitely lacks customization options.

As far as missions go... I think the whole faction thing is grossly underused in FL. It always puzzles me to think that factions like the Zoners and Liberty Rogues are organized exactly the same way as LSF and Rheinland Fed Police. Different factions should provide more than just different base access. The simplest would probably be for the criminal factions to give out kill ships missions, for the corporates to give escort missions, and law enforcement to give base destruction missions. I don't see why the Rogues would ever want to destroy someone's mining operation and it scares me to think that a company would hire someone for assassinations. The Bounty Hunters Guild are kinda awkward, too. Shouldn't they be just a whole bunch of Freelancers instead of an organized group, with everyone flying the same ships? It's also kinda weird for the companies to retain their own fighter fleet instead of hiring others for their escort, much less wage war against other companies.

Not just the missions, though, the concept of factions should have been put to much better use. The armies could give ranks and medals, companies could give stock options or bonus goods, and criminals could give you shady informations and such. But I guess I'm getting a bit too far. These would probably require substantial rework on the game, compared to increased ship customizations, which may be relatively easily acheived with a patch/mod.

Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:15 pm by PCHolt

*** Sigh ***

I just plan to play the damned game and enjoy it for what it is. I've paid $50 for games that suck and only played them a couple of times. So paying $50 for a game like this - that I know I'll enjoy isn't very difficult.

* I finished NOLF 2 in just under 2 weeks (which is probably slow too some of you, but I only play games for a couple of hours a day).
* I played Dungeon Siege for about 2-3 weeks before I got sick of all the inventory management and just gave up.
* I played Morrowind for about a month before I got bored with how easy it was.

Most games have flaws, and no game is going to please everyone, but look at the facts:

I pay $20 for a DVD movie that I'll probably watch a dozen times in my life (a total of about 24 hours of entertainment)
I pay $40 - $60 for concert or comedy show tickets (2 people) for a total of 2-3 hours of entertainment.
I pay $200-$400 for a weekend at our local water park (about 20-30 hours of entertainment)

$50 for 20 to 40 hours of fun is pretty good in my book, and when I'm done with Freelancer, I'll move on to the next game I like.
WTF? why dwell on things you can't control?

Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:27 pm by Stinger

You know, I’ve read all the reviews of people that just can’t stop talking about how Freelancer lacks this or Freelancer lacks that. They post an enormous amount of words in their topics, which quite frankly is a bit of overkill. Less is more, but not in this case apparently. I’m not here to sway your opinions, but I am here to shed some light on all this negativity and why it may invoke some heated debates

The very fact that freelancer is getting this much attention speaks volumes. We could easily stack up the negative reviews (mostly reserved for posting on this site for some unknown reason) against all the other reviews done by people that know their words can make or break some games. Most of them are quite a contrast to what we’ve seen on here, they like it, they really like it.

Freelancer never was intended to be the perfect game to satisfy every gamer. There’s not a game in the world that could do that. I hate first person shooters many do not. I hate Command and Conquer-like games many others do not. I hated X-Com, many others loved it. I truly despised X-Tension with a passion (very boring game), many others think it’s the game of all games. Tachyon The Fringe was okay, many others seem to sing of its praises. I loved Privateer; I didn’t like Privateer 2 so much and so on and so on. But I’m just not that motivated to go out and post my reviews all over the place on fansites lambasting the ones I hate. I let my WALLET do the talking for me.

Additionally, I received a Gold version of Freelancer and yet yesterday, went out and pre-ordered the game from EB Games. I let my wallet do my talking. I bought the entire collection of Wing Commander games ever made by Origin Systems published in conjunction with Electronic Arts from E-Bay. I let my wallet do my talking. I’ve actually contributed to the success of this very web site both by offering my time and a little money. I let my wallet do the talking.

I read where people have downloaded copies of Freelancer from the Internet for free and then feel entitled to speak of its merits on here (or lack thereof.) That’s like people complaining about what elected officials are doing right or wrong, yet don’t take the time to vote for or against ANYONE. I let my wallet do the talking, I let my voice be heard by my own actions, and I don’t feel I’m entitled to have a say in things I do nothing to support or rally against with my actions. I let my wallet do my talking. If you buy a game, and hate it then you have every single right in the world to moan and groan and complain about it from the top of every mountain. I’ll be there with lemonade for you. 

I think that could be why some are a bit sensitive to others coming on here to post their less than gracious reviews of Freelancer because the staff (and many others) here put a hell of a lot of work into this product through our testing. Many hours of testing. When we see people come on here tearing apart this game it makes us feel like we didn’t do a good enough job for everyone. It’s like WE failed you, not Microsoft, not Digital Anvil, we did. I’m hear to tell you, we busted our asses to bring this game to where it is today and so did a whole lot of other people. You don’t like it, fine state your peace and then move on. The next time someone wants to tear into the game saying it lacks this and it lacks that and it’s a useless game to him or her, consider you may be tearing into us (staff of TLR) at the same time.

How would you like it if we zeroed in on something your passionate about and screamed at the top of our lungs on a mountain top how it was a piece of donkey dung and a waste of time? And to top it off we continued to pour salt in the wound by saying you’re an idiot for being so passionate about it? Better yet, what if we did this complaining right in front of you, your family, your friends and made sure if you even spoke up we reverted to name calling to further drag the topic deeper into the cesspool? Bet you wouldn’t be near as graceful about responding to these salvos as we have been over the past few weeks.

I let my wallet do my talking, most of the time. But someone needed to say this, I hope it relieves some others as it relieved me for writing all this down.

Rob "Stinger" Lordier
Moderator/Comp Tech Lancers Reactor
Creator Privateer FAQ Competition doesn't create character, it REVEALS it!

Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:46 pm by Bargib

I can't agree more with Stinger, as I'm also have stated in past discussions... I do not mind commenting on what is actually in the game, and how it is done, but what really annoys me is that everybody, who give Freelancer a beating do so for two reasons: for what it does NOT contain (even while the game contains more content than 3 times the content of most other Triple-A titles) and for beeing to little of a space simulation.

To say FL is crap because it does not have features A-Z is very unfair to the game. Look at what IS IN THERE, and try to enjoy that! Looking for all the missing links is like trying to tear apart any illusion or fantasy for the sheer reason of finding joy in destroying the fun for others.

On the simulation part (which is abasicly the whole "no joystick", "combat to arcade'ish" and "this is not realistic"

I can only point on two facts: SpaceSimulations have done poorly in sales lately, and this is a way to revive the genre a bit by opening up the game to the many people who do not feel like having to learn a lot of complexity. The game is very easy to get into, but to really master it you need more skill. Also this is a fun ficitonal game, and of course it is not realistic... nearly no space game was in the past, maybe with ONE exception, namely Virgin's "Space Shuttle Simulater" - that game was wildly complex! And very, very dry... luckly Freelancer is not that kind of game...

*CLICK*

Best Regards
Christian "Bargib" Koerner
Editor in Chief, The Lancers Reactor

Mon Mar 03, 2003 8:14 pm by Cleric

RE: "why dwell on things you can't control?".

There's a long answer and a short answer to this, so I'll opt for the short one.

You're mostly right in saying that we can't control these things. But in a way, people voicing their opinions on what they feel a games shortcomings are CAN have some effect.

If the Developers and Publishers see that enough people are complaining about some aspect of a game needing improvement, they may release a patch or expansion to address it. Take for example Morrowind; Fans were very disappointed that there were no Werewolves in the game, when they had been a big part of Daggerfall. Look what the new expansion adds to Morrowind-> Werewolves! This is just one example, but there are many more.

Many companies will also address issues that they can through patches. Reason being, that they don't want potential buyers reading how a game really suffers from something and deciding not to purchase it. Let's face it, if a game doesn't sell very well, the publisher can take a hosing. So it's in their best interests to try and fix any MAJOR complaints players may have. Feedback from the player communtiy is one of the best ways for Developers and Publishers to know if an aspect of their game is really messed up to the point that people might not buy it.

Also, in a round about way, feedback like this helps maintain the quality standards that Developers and Publishers have to try to meet to satisfy their customers. I mean, if they thought they could get away with only giving 5 hours of play time out of a game don't you think they'd jump on it? It would save them a bundle on development, and they'd make more profit from sales. But they know that people won't lay down $50.00 for a game that only gives 5 hours of play time! It used to be that an average game would give around 25 to 30 hours of play time. Now, they've pushed it down to around 20 hours and are trying to push it down even further! By complaining about it, or refusing to buy games that don't give a good amount of playing time, the consumer is telling the Developer/Publisher that this is unacceptable. Hence, they know that if they want their game to sell well enough to be worth making, they have to put enough into it to keep players entertained for a reasonable amount of time.

Anyway's, I know thats kind of long for a "short answer", but it's the best I can do.

PS- Not trying to flame you or anything PCHOLT. It's just that I get really frustrated when I see someone posting "why bother? There's nothing we can do", or "just deal with it" opinions.

That attitude just leads to "settling for less", which inevitably leads to "getting less". It's NOT unreasonable to demand that the main plot of a game take you at least a week to play through at 2-3 hours a day M-F and 4 hours ea. day on weekends! I could list many games from over the last 2 to 5 years that did. But over the last year or so games seem to be getting shorter and shorter. If people remain silent about it and accept it as the status quo, the trend will just continue and 5 years from now, we may see games that you play through in 5 hours!

Anyway, just my opinion.

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