Comments on Freelancer simulator design and universe.

Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:34 am by fubzot

I must say I am a bit dissapointet. I have waited 4 yrs. for this game being a huge fan of Elite, Privateer 1+2, Freespace, Starlancer, and the WC series.

In my opinion the simulator simply dosent cut it there is no manuvering requried or tactical thinking when fighting it is to simple and to "arcade".

1.)It dosent matter what angel you approach capital ships their turrets have trouble hitting you and when that do the dammage is negliable. The same goes for weapon platforms, and even stations.
Most objects in the game can be destroyed by a singel fighter armed with 4 cannons of varying quality.

2.)Useing mines and countermessures is not realy nessecary, since you dont have a radar and have little to no awareness of what is happening around you and hence when to apply them at the right time.

3.)The afterburner, shields and guns have seperate power sources this means that they dont affect eachother so you cant transfer power between guns and shields. Thus eliminating a tactical element of the simulator. The way you recharge your shields is by "healthpotions" that you while fighting can tractor in from slain enemies. Same concept applys to Hull dammage

4.) All ships have the same max. speed and when you upgrade your afterburner it dosent change how fast you can fly but only for how long periods of time you can "burn". So you cant addopt a slow heavyfighter style or a fast light fighter style.

5.) The only ugrades available to your ship is a better thruster (afterburner) and shields and even thou there are different types of shields the difference is neglighable as long as you sellect shields with as high a class as possible.

6.) As mentioned before there is no radar.

7.) The different types of cannons you can sellect dosent relay give the feel of haveing alot of options like in privateer where the type of guns you sellected had great impact on what tactic you should use in dogfight (harrying tactis with long range low dammage lasers, close comat with masers, pressition fireing with plasma etc.)

8.) You dont get the feel that you evolve as a player because combat is the same at high levels as in low levels the name of your ship and the weapons you use is the only thing changing and that is not enough.

9.) When you hit an object or an astroide you take lttle to no dammage even at cruise speed.

The Universe:

1) The news bullitens dosent have an effect on the universe and is only there to support the main storryline even thou it is filled with all kinds of storyes that will take up much of your playing time reading through and the relevance is limmitet.

2)Prices on commodities dosent change so if you find a good traderoute just keep ping ponging back and forth and make yourself a hansome buck!

3) There are just to many factions in the game several kinds of companies, pirates, terrorists, navys, etc. etc. You dont realy get to identify with anyone of them.

4) The different systems are just to much allike the base designs dosent change much.

5) The Universe dosent invite you to explore it it just seems to dull.

6) The game just screams X-BOX!

7) The Missions is SO SIMPLE it is as someone mentioned earlyer go to X kill X and thats it.

All Storyline mission communication goes through the same person there is no investigating or exploring you are told what to do each step of the way and with objectives at that.

9) Where are the side quests besides the "missions"

Well I have been pretty negative so far but ofcause there are some positive aspects of the game the engine runs smoothly and the universe is beautifull I especialy like flying through nebulas astoroidfielsd and cosmic clouds it realy looks good. And the sound realy helps set the mood. But this does not make up for the games many shorcommings Privateer from 1993 were gameplay wise more complex in my opinion even thou there only were 4 different ships to fly you could still pump up your starting ship with powergenerators, repair robots, afterburner, shields, guns, torpedo and missileracs, radars, etc. to make it a worthy fighter.
On a scale of 1-10 I give freelancer a 5

Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:52 am by Apocalypse

but privateer did not offer multiplayer

and the border worlds are intersting to say at least.

I would give it a 7-8 out of 10 for those to aspects of the game.
if the game would offer you more challenges I really would think it would get close to 10, but well 4 years and so less impact the player can have on the world.

aswell I do not like the general system config.
pirate bases, goverment and merchant bases, constant fighting between those 2 sides, its damn uncreativ and unrealistic. fl technoligie must be damn impressiv in building up stuff, when the military can´t kill pirate bases as fast as they can get build

Supporter and Founder of the :p for smilies Campange

We want :p

Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:53 am by Fear Factor

Well it's good to have the demo before it's released, right? Luckily, you haven't bought it yet. So good luck in finding your perfect space sim, or you can of course build one that is better

. Some of us will hang around and play this one. Until it's dead or something better comes along.

Wed Feb 26, 2003 12:00 pm by Eraser

@Fuzbot:

First of all, Freelancer isn't actually a Simulation, but a Space RPG

Second of all, it might have that 'arcade' sense to it in your opinion, but no one has ever said it would be realistic. There's no Newtonian physics model in FL (like in lets say...I-War), so clearly there isn't much realism in the flight model. Some like 'arcade' and some like 'somewhat realistic flight', but the flight model of FL has been announced long ago, so it shouldn't be such a surprise.

Wed Feb 26, 2003 12:27 pm by Apocalypse

if its a space rpg, than it is the damn worst rpg I ever played, diablo has more rpg elements

now really, yeah it has some rpg elements, but not really that much, its still more space sim than rpg.

Supporter and Founder of the :p for smilies Campange

We want :p

Wed Feb 26, 2003 1:10 pm by Wizard

4.) All ships have the same max. speed and when you upgrade your afterburner it dosent change how fast you can fly but only for how long periods of time you can "burn". So you cant addopt a slow heavyfighter style or a fast light fighter style.

DA explained why they did that IIRC. Just browse the enws archive to found this.

2.)Useing mines and countermessures is not realy nessecary, since you dont have a radar and have little to no awareness of what is happening around you and hence when to apply them at the right time.

No countermeasures nessecary? Don't make me laugh. Have you ever been chased by several roques or Xenos with missles? Countermeasures are your best friend.

8.) You dont get the feel that you evolve as a player because combat is the same at high levels as in low levels the name of your ship and the weapons you use is the only thing changing and that is not enough.

Battle some Roques at lvl 2, after that fight 5 fighters at lvl 10. And not around the planets, but in the Badlands or Border Worlds. You'll change your opinion soon.

[qoute9.) When you hit an object or an astroide you take lttle to no dammage even at cruise speed.

Your ship has to take 50 or more percent damage when you hit every little space junk?

2)Prices on commodities dosent change so if you find a good traderoute just keep ping ponging back and forth and make yourself a hansome buck!

Alot has been said on this. no need to repeat it.

4) The different systems are just to much allike the base designs dosent change much.

What did you want to see? Space looks the same most of the time.

And may I ask how you gathered so much information? I'm not accusing you of warezing FL but I'm interested how you got to play the full game.

Wizard- The quote Master

"God bless this acid house!"
"I was near the scene of another crime at the time, officer."

Edited by - Wizard on 26-02-2003 13:10:23

Wed Feb 26, 2003 1:13 pm by Eraser

Go easy on him Wiz, some people are just hard to persuade and stay stubborn

Wed Feb 26, 2003 1:22 pm by nuce

4.) All ships have the same max. speed and when you upgrade your afterburner it dosent change how fast you can fly but only for how long periods of time you can "burn". So you cant addopt a slow heavyfighter style or a fast light fighter style.

I agree on this one. Different ships should have different top speeds.

9.) When you hit an object or an astroide you take lttle to no dammage even at cruise speed. .

Yes, objects should make more damage. Can you guys remember Privateer 1 and asteroid fields. Sounds from asteroids hitting my Taurus still gives me nightmares

2)Prices on commodities dosent change so if you find a good traderoute just keep ping ponging back and forth and make yourself a hansome buck!

Dynamical prices would be great. Even if they'd have only little randomization
would make a difference.

7) The Missions is SO SIMPLE it is as someone mentioned earlyer go to X kill X and thats it.

Cargo, escort, bounty hunt, resuce mission. Thats what I'm missing...

But on the otherhand. Freelancer is one of the best games realeased in years.
Can't wait to play the full version.

Wed Feb 26, 2003 2:47 pm by mustang

Fuzzbot that is the most negative review of any game I have seen ever. Im sorry but I cannot respect your opinion when all you have to say that's good about the game is a small side note at the bottom. I know for a fact that the game is not as half as bad as you make it out to be, so I give your review a 3 out of 10.

EDIT: Nearly forgot, at no time did Freelancer ever pretend to be a simulator, why is everyone so intent on treating it as such.

Edited by - Mustang on 26-02-2003 14:48:42

Wed Feb 26, 2003 3:03 pm by fubzot

No countermeasures nessecary? Don't make me laugh. Have you ever been chased by several roques or Xenos with missles? Countermeasures are your best friend.

Well honestly I havent had any use of them as of yet

Oh and I forgot earlier Why use Misseleracks when your guns do the job just fine I would have prefered if the mounting of missile racks and gun didnt take up same space. When you hardly ever drain the energy bar of your cannons and when you finaly do just wait 2 sec. and it has recharged I see little to no point in using the missiles especially when your cannons do the job whatever it is just dandy.

Your ship has to take 50 or more percent damage when you hit every little space junk?

I wassent refering to small pieces of scrap metal. (btw I like the effect when you hit those). I an reffering to astoroids the size of spacestations or spacestations for that matter.

What did you want to see? Space looks the same most of the time.

Again I asent talking about the universe/space but aboute base designs It is also one of the minor issues and of all the points I have listet the least importaint.

Wizard it is always nice to get some specifik feedback on ones comments and while we apparently dissagree to the quality of this game I am only glad that some ppl are able to truely enjoy it.

I still would like some feedback on some of what I consider major issus of the game point: 1.), 3.), 4.), 5.), 7.), 8.) and 1), 3), 7), 9). Am I the only one that feel a little like I have waitet 4 yrs. in vain.

I rely want to enjoy this game I rely do and hope that more aspects will eventualy reveal themselves to me.

EDIT:

Fuzzbot that is the most negative review of any game I have seen ever. Im sorry but I cannot respect your opinion when all you have to say that's good about the game is a small side note at the bottom. I know for a fact that the game is not as half as bad as you make it out to be, so I give your review a 3 out of 10.

EDIT: Nearly forgot, at no time did Freelancer ever pretend to be a simulator, why is everyone so intent on treating it as such.

Well I know I gradet the entire game at the end of my first post but the post wasent an atempt to make a full review of the game but I thourght it wise to state mu overall opinion in the for of a grade so ppl that read what I have to say about the game know where I stand and hence "what glassses I am wearing"

Oh and for FL not pretending to be a sim.... True not in the traditional term but I would still like to have seen some of the tactical considerations for previous made spacesims infused with the new "point of view". And not just let the "sim" part of the game come down to, (and now Im gonna exagurate to illistrate my point), An advanced spaceinvaders.

Edited by - fubzot on 26-02-2003 15:12:45

Wed Feb 26, 2003 3:09 pm by Onde Pik

Well FubZot is exactly right in all of his points. And I can add a few things.

Not only do ALL ships have the same max speed, but still you CANT outfly enemies using your afterburner even if u have the best one and they have the worst one.

And what is up with the turning guns? This is the first Space Sim I have ever seen where your guns arent static and it sux. There is NO SKILL required to play this game. Just point and click. I have not died once and I havent been doing any money making stuff other than what is required to continue.(Basicly because its so damn boring to do the same thing over and over again) No tactics at all other than

10 Press R to select nearest enemy
20 Hold right mouse button over the red cross until target dead
30 goto 10

In privateer u had to do nifty flying and shooting to stay alive.

The astroid damage / desity is really a big concern of mine. You can fly at cruise speed and never hit a single big astroid, and even if you do... you take no damage. In privateer, you could afterburn away from a nasty band of kilrathi if you were good/lucky enough to navigate through an astroid field. And the kilrathi might get clubbered by the astroids.

Where are the sidequests? In privateer you would meet ppl on diffrent systems completely unaffilliated with the main story line, and you would do missions for them. Multiple missions, and allmost all MUCH more complex than anything in FL.

Where is the atmosphere????????? Comeon, all the lights and stuff that are in the universe in FL is pretty, but it doesnt give a feeling of being there. All the ships are bright and u can see them light up miles away. In privateer and other games it was much darker in space and gave a better sense of being there. Ships that are in shade from a planet, looks as bright as if the sun was 10 feet away. That sux. And where are all the nice taunts that pll threw at you and u could throw back?? Some retros with there insane taunts like "Taste the purifying fire of the Lord" is REALLY missing. And as Fubzot said, there are WAY too many factions that are all pretty small and restricted to a small part of the galaxy.

Honestly. Privateer was a 100 times better game. If privateer had decent graphics, it would put this game to shame in anyones mind. But ppl focus alot about graphics now.

And I don't get it why the admins of this site tells ppl to not post critisim. It just doesnt make sense. Alot of us have been waiting 4 years for this particular game, 10 years for a game that could lift the legacy of Privateer and Elite. And you guys have been running a BIG fansite for so long, if anyone should be posting their discontent with this game it is you. I KNOW you are dissapointed too, everyone knows it, and there is no reason to deny it. Use the power you have with this site to try to influence future games to not make the same mistake that this one has, instead of closing threads made by ppl who have waited faithfully for 4 years on this game. This is a fan community, but if fans cant be critics then who can? Fans are the best critics.

PS: I am 100% sure this game changed alot after Chris left and MS took over. Starlancer was very nice, good space enviroment and a decent simulator. I can't belive that this game got postponed like 2 years and they ended up with this unless they actually changed alot when MS bought the project. My heart goes out to the ppl who started the project with intentions of making a game that was what we all wanted.

Wed Feb 26, 2003 3:18 pm by fubzot

And I don't get it why the admins of this site tells ppl to not post critisim. It just doesnt make sense. Alot of us have been waiting 4 years for this particular game, 10 years for a game that could lift the legacy of Privateer and Elite. And you guys have been running a BIG fansite for so long, if anyone should be posting their discontent with this game it is you. I KNOW you are dissapointed too, everyone knows it, and there is no reason to deny it. Use the power you have with this site to try to influence future games to not make the same mistake that this one has, instead of closing threads made by ppl who have waited faithfully for 4 years on this game. This is a fan community, but if fans cant be critics then who can? Fans are the best critics.

PS: I am 100% sure this game changed alot after Chris left and MS took over. Starlancer was very nice, good space enviroment and a decent simulator. I can't belive that this game got postponed like 2 years and they ended up with this unless they actually changed alot when MS bought the project. My heart goes out to the ppl who started the project with intentions of making a game that was what we all wanted.

I'll second that!

Wed Feb 26, 2003 3:19 pm by Fear Factor

I KNOW you are dissapointed too, everyone knows it, and there is no reason to deny it.

Speaking for everyone, are we? Do not tell me how I should feel. If I'm disappointed, I'll let you know. *I* know what I know, not you nor anyone else. Do we live in a hive mind? as I have said before: if you can't live with what FL is now, then start searching another game. If you don't like FL, why don't you do something about it? NO, I'm not talking about hammering fan forums and sulk. It is not constructive. FL has gone gold and there's nothing you can do about it. It's really, REALLY pointless for you to start being a critic now. How about trying to build a better game yourself? FL is not for you. But it is for US.

Wed Feb 26, 2003 3:37 pm by 501

I totaly agree with fuzbot A few points to add:

Graphics are fantastic but graphics dont make a game good

Fighting every 10 seconds after a couple of hours i got bored doing the same thing, see how much damage is done to shield after a few shots, then if not so hard kill em grab loot which is very undiverse *yawn* then go get another mission exactly the same just with a different name in a different place

there is only one freelance mission goto x destory something/everything recive reward

rumours?!?! i wish you could slap some people

Whats the point in trading when you can make more money doin the misions and the trading aint even dynamic would it not be better if things happend like

- You heard a rumour that the jump gate to the leeds area of bretonia had been taken over by terrorist and food rations werent getting through, the population were starving. You could then pile up your frieghter and exploit the poor people for every penny they had.

- You here a rumour that theres a cloacked pirate based deep inside the badlands You decide to goto the badlands and get pally with the local piratres one of them invites to the base that sundenly appears from nowhrere you take a job smugeling. The person giving you the job tells you that some of the rich corperate business men of california will pay over the odds for any available drugs but security is really tight he tells you of a dealer in california by the name of X and you are to fill you cargo hold with plenty narcotics and trade with the dealer on california.

I know you can trade ilegal goods but theres no story behind it if you get caught you can run off of shoot the police its easy with no tension and there no extra profit from selling ilegal goods for the risk youve taken.

Doing this sort of thing adds depth to a game for instance i dont wanna get caugh by liberty police and fall out of favour with them but i really want this expensive cannnon if i did just one more run then i could use the cannon to kill pirates and my karma will be restored. There are hundreds of senario's devs could have come up with so why just kill kill kill.

I dont wanna just come on here and call a game the devs have spent a long time on it and put in a lot of efort into, but its such an arcade game, when will people realise that just repetitve fighting is boring it should be a side feature so when venturing into badlands you have to fight or if you've annoyed someone then they attack but the game is just so focused on fighting like "mortal kombat" or "street fighter" in space

The charactor should be called rambo or schwartzenegger or the die hard guy gimmie some cool features mods for your ship, cloacks, secrets, differing levels of combat diversity is very lacking its a huge universe but as deep as a pancake if i had to sum up i would say could have been a classic unfortunately no depth *yawn* 5/10

X2 wont be long and XBTF was very good had all the faetures people on this forum seem to want it just takes a long time to get going a lot like elite

Wed Feb 26, 2003 3:45 pm by Wizard

And again, X2 gets mentioned! AArgh!!!! I'm not even going to reply to these negative reviews of the "full game". Everybody says the same ove rand over again...

Edit: Starlancer and Freelancer are no freakin' simulators for Pete's sake.

Edited by - Wizard on 26-02-2003 15:49:16

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