Once more: Trading

Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:29 am by Greyfish

the problem with static pricing is that its hard to lose money. you have to be pretty reckless in purchasing in order to buy something that you already know is at its highest (known) price. and since one cannot Lose money trading in a believable manner, its kinda only dealing with half of a market system.

the problem too with finding nice trade routes, is that once you find them, thats it you're done. so you zip back and forth from point a to point b. sure it'll make money, but at least to me, it seems kinda boring. but I guess thats what the pirate activity is for.

the idea about the economy "leveling out" makes some sense, but it wouldnt level out to static. someone said a small flux range of +/-300 or something similar. that would make the most sense. thats enough money to not have it theoretically matter for the stations, but certainly enough to matter for a small time freelance guy trying to make a buck hauling cargo. you find out that they need commodity X at station Y. you purchase commodity X someplace else for a lowe price, and upon arrival at station Y you discover a freighter carrying commodity A docking right in front of you! and THEY get the best price deal not you. the price goes up, you lose some (maybe all) of your profit so you can then choose to either sell and take the profit loss, or not sell and try your luck elsewhere.

now granted that makes trading much much more frustrating. but that is what a free market is. keeping with the appearance of a living (not actual) universe FL already has, one could easily accomplish this with the random price fluctuations of elite. sure one could sit outside the station and wait for the prices to be favorable, or dock and relaunch like we all did in elite to get a good price, and sure thats not fun or realistic. but then again neither repeating the same trade route over and over again. so it really kinda depends on how one roleplays Trent while they are playing. similarly one could roleplay trent I suppose to not fly the same route over and over again to make a profit also.

anyway my point is dynamic pricing has some advantages. thats all.

personally, once the full game is out, I'm curious to see if one could really play as just a trader in the game. I presume this would have to be one person on a MP server mode or something to avoid the SP missions. but it'll be interesting to see if one can really make it work, and more importantly, have fun doing it. it'd be fun (to me at least) to see if someone can get rich without firing a shot.

g

Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:37 am by 666heretic

i wonder if there will be a black market of sorts.

-I trade for a living, rouges piss me off, come get me, catch me if you can, i will leave you in the dust, or you'll die trying, take your pick.-

@Heretic Inc. We trade because we own.@

Thu Feb 27, 2003 2:08 am by mustang

anyway my point is dynamic pricing has some advantages. thats all.

Some vaid points there Greyfish and dynamic prices does have some advantages, personally I wouldn't have really cared which way it went. I honestly think that the current system works well and a dynamic trading system would have worked not quite as well, but it would have had other plusses as you mentioned.

Thu Feb 27, 2003 2:19 am by 666heretic

i actually like this system of economics. i mean you can buy something for like 50 ( i forgot what) and you can sell it somewhere four more than double that. you re-make your money AND you get double.

-I trade for a living, rouges piss me off, come get me, catch me if you can, i will leave you in the dust, or you'll die trying, take your pick.-

@Heretic Inc. We trade because we own.@

Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:52 am by spartan

I don't want a dynamic economy. Being a trader is mundane enough as it is. Having to look around for selling prices is a waste of time. As some one mentioned earlier, that will just lead to landing and leaving a planet repeatedly until prices are good.

Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:17 am by Apocalypse

i actually like this system of economics. i mean you can buy something for like 50 ( i forgot what) and you can sell it somewhere four more than double that. you re-make your money AND you get double.

Actaully its more like buy for 100 and sell for 1000.
at the e2 server you see one of the main problems with static prices, seeing how half the server population (while the other half buying stuff in the border worls or killing xenos) doing over and over the la > freeport 4 run, making in one hour several millions of credits out of nowhere is somehow odd O_o

And this run is kinda the one for noobs. you could even do it in the starting ship. and easyl in the first frighter. A random change of just about 15% would make this run much less profitable, cause it would half your profits.

Ah and btw prices should change over time, not over docking

That prevents waiting and constant redocking.
If you wait until the price gets much better, you lose lots of money, cause you could do something else in the time, and we all know time = money ^_^

Hopfully they make a patch that change this, a function that each time a station gets cargo reduce the price abit for this cargo (depending on the amount) sounds good, while the price goes up over time constant when nothing get delivert.

this would aswell give you a reason for pvp, cause other traders lower your own profit, so a blockade of your fav trade run would make sense to keep it as long as you can profitable for yourself.

And it could be EASY implented.
Btw there are no cpu circles needed to update your own price listing, it use anyway I guess direkt the variable (or better atm the constant) of the price for the station. And it would be enough only to include players delievers to change the price to stop those massiv runs.
Adding aswell npc trades would be cool aswell, but I agree that this gets abit more complicated, cause the game would have to simulate all those cargo ships arround aswell (would not take much cpu power, but it would take some, and the devs would have to code a trade simulation for the nps with some statistical stuff that can be manipulated by players actions, but can totaly run in background if players do not interfer with the cargo ships arround (in other words if they are not in the system)

So I really hope for a patch that atleast make the prices dynamic at base of direkt players delivers to stop trade run "abusing" (oh and if someone tell me that its the players fault to use this easy trade runs, I have to disagree, it would be stupid not to do, and unless you want to role play a stupid charakter it would be out of charakter

)

Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:49 am by Rein of Kaos

Its simple. contact the makers of Privateer 3. Steal the dynamic system from them (and include the random events that would cause planets to have too little or too much of a certain good), then take Privateer's awesome and unique real life cutscenes with actors, then sit down and and spend some actual time developing a game.

It makes me sad that companies aren't spending as much time as they used to on creating games. I can't blame them for any inexperience, but Privateer 3 was a game ahead of its time and those are the games that set the standards. But regardless, until Privateer 4 comes out (or its equivalent), i'll end up buying this game with hopes of future fixes.

Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:00 am by mustang

There's a Privateer 3????

Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:02 am by Rein of Kaos

hmm... or was it 2? all i know is that it was the last in the series, and it was the best game ever, and i can't run it on my comp any more.

Edit: Yes, there was a Privateer 3. its was Privateer: The Darkening. all those full motion cut scenes required many discs though. i believe it was 4 discs.

Edited by - Rein of Kaos on 27-02-2003 05:08:07

Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:11 am by Apocalypse

Privateer: The Darkening IS privateer 2

You get I guess the numbers mixed up cause privteer had an sequel called rightous fire or something like that, spelled it most likly wrong, but this sequel was kinda like the secret ops for wing commaner 1-5 *g*

Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:14 am by Rein of Kaos

There ya go. it was long ago and i was too into getting distress calls in space and saving chicks in ships that were being attacked. then the chick would meet me back there home planet and a cut scene would elude to the transfer of many bodily fluids.

Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:17 am by Greb Jnnayr

I don't know if you know this but Privateer 2 was made by the same people who made Freelancer, back when they worked for Origin, same with Privateer 1.

I think that is part of the problem. Their past games had a dynamic economy and also had more diverse side missions. Alot of us were expecting the same thing or even better. Thats why alot of us are let down.

But I am still excited for the game.

Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:19 am by Lev Arris

It makes me sad that companies aren't spending as much time as they used to on creating games.

Uhm... you are aware of the fact that Freelancer was in development for 5 goddamn years, aren't you?

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"In all likelihood you're going to die out there. We're all going to die out there, but none of us needs to be reminded of that fact. So you die, you never existed." - Lt. Cmdr. 'Angel' Devereaux

Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:22 am by Rein of Kaos

Than what the HELL were they doing for 5 years!!!! picking their cracks? there is a difference between spending time making a great game and spending time making a game that has already been surpassed a long time ago.

And you should know Lev, you were the main character in Privateer: The Darkening

Edited by - Rein of Kaos on 27-02-2003 05:23:13

Edited by - Rein of Kaos on 27-02-2003 05:24:46

Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:37 am by Lev Arris

There have been some personal difficulties in the making of Freelancer. I think it was about money too. Microsoft aquired Digital Anvil shortly after that. Yes, Freelancer was ought to have a much grander scale than it turned out to be now, but i think it still is much better than Privateer 2. And i should now, because i am Lev Arris.

btw: did anyone find any loose ends that Lev mentioned in his PAD after finishing the story line?

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"In all likelihood you're going to die out there. We're all going to die out there, but none of us needs to be reminded of that fact. So you die, you never existed." - Lt. Cmdr. 'Angel' Devereaux

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