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Digital Anvil - Accept Your Responsibilities...

This is a free discussion forum on Freelancer. This is the place to discuss Freelancer issues NOT covered by the other boards!

Post Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:42 am

Digital Anvil - Accept Your Responsibilities...

I might be cynical but...

Does anyone seriously imagine that Digital Anvil are going to release ANYTHING in the way of add-ons for Freelancer? Ever?


Timeline... 2000

I remember back when I was counting down the days to Starlancer's release. In virtually every press release, magazine article, interview with the developers etc (some of which are still linked to from Lancers Reactor) there was talk of the add-ons that would be released. There's even going to be a mission editor. Wow!!! Mission editor = increased lifespan of game! That was one of the main factors in persuading me to part with £30 for the game and when I'd completed it a mere two days later it was the fact that I consoled myself with every time I thought of something more important that I should have done with that money. (Car insurance, food, etc...)

Timeline... 2003

The present day. Freelancer, one of the most eagerly-awaited and one of the most delayed games in the history of computing has finally hit the shelves . It looks great, plays great, hell it IS great. But you know what? I'm still waiting for my Starlancer mission editor... In fact I don't think they even released a patch of any kind for it, let alone any software, new ships, expansion missions etc. If they did, I've never seen it.

Most software companies continually refine their products after release, both to maintain compatability with the latest advances in technology and because it's good for customer relations. In addition, the increase in the popularity of on-line gaming has led to a far greater demand from gamers for the ability to customise their games, to express their individuality with the help of a custom skin, or to be able to create their own content when they've completed that which was provided with the game and to share that content with others. For many games, their public release is now a stage in the development process rather than the end of it.

"But what about the modders?" I hear you cry...

I have a huge amount of respect for modders, both for the level of technical ability with software and graphics needed to successfully modify contemporary PC games and for the imagination and ingenuity that's so clearly visible in the best mods for virtually any recently released game. However, unofficial mods for virtually any game usually require the user to either replace, edit, extract or otherwise manipulate game files or data in some way. I'm confident doing that kind of thing, but I haven't always been - we'd all do well to remember that there was a time for all of us when we too knew absolutely nothing about PCs. Many PC users don't have that level of confidence and are put off just by reading the instructions! Many more choose not to install mods because they don't want to risk corrupting saved games etc. I know I've had modded software refuse to load backed-up saved games before now and I bet I'm not alone am I

Finally some people just don't want to have to "mess about" with editing hex files, config files etc. and there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, I've got a car, I enjoy driving it very much, but I don't want to spend my spare time underneath it fiddling with various aspects of the engine because to me that's not fun.

The point is that by their nature, mods only appeal to people who feel they have the technical competence to install and troubleshoot them. There will always be a proportion of gamers who can't, or won't do that and they will miss out on potential enhancements to the game, despite the fact that they paid the same for it as I did.

Most software companies support modders to some degree; after all a successful mod can greatly increase the longevity of a title - just look at Counter Strike. Some developers go as far as to provide source code, textures and other software elements for modders to use, whilst others offer the less obvious (but I'm sure equally welcome) assistance of just not actually prosecuting modders for breach of copyright(!) Even among the "helpful" companies, some developers show respect for the ideas and talent and creativity of the modding community, encouraging and appreciating their work, whilst others see modders as a source of cheap labour - just toss them a bone every now and then and they'll get on with the development work that the company's (very well paid) programmers would otherwise be doing, instead of working on the next shoddy blockbuster. It's a bit like Microsoft's release of Windows ME -who beta tested it? Me and every other poor b*stard that bought it, that's who!

I don't know which of these camps Digital Anvil fall into - I guess we'll find out soon enough - but regarding the mythical Starlancer editor it's unfortunately irrelevant anyway.

When the game was being hyped up for release, they promised a mission editor.

People were aware of that fact when the bought the game.

They didn't release a mission editor.

That's a bit naughty. Isn't it?

Well, isn't it?

Let's hope the've learned something over the last 3 years...

...and I didn't mention joysticks once. Damn!...

Post Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:50 am

just a couple of holes in your argument

1. the SL mission editor was a fan project and wasn't being made by DA

2. SL didn't sell very well unfortunatly, FL how ever is selling very well, and the reason companys like MS release sequels and addons is to make more money from a saurce they already know is profitable

so I would say there is a good chance that we see something comming out

Post Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:59 am

yeah good chances, anyway its the last chance for them aswell.

if they screw support up again ... well they are dead for me, and can try to find a new nice name for their studio

though maybe they are dead already anyway and full intergreated into the ms game studio

Post Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:18 pm

No officical patches? Say its not so....

I agree the history if there but like StarShock said FL is outselling SL. Its the old saying 'Where theres a bill theres a way', microsoft are a hard up small business and really need the bucks Yeah. But seriously tho they do love money, maybe if we all send them a few notes, call it a 'tip' and say how much we'd like to pay for an addon?

Better to wait tho than rush it, Morrowind : Tribunal was out really soon after Morrowind, to much hype. It was pretty disappointing tho and i'd far rather they'd waited a bit longer and finished it off.

Post Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:46 pm

Starshock[/b}:

From TLR's interview with Erin Roberts, March 2000...

[bTLR
: Will you release some sort of editor for the game, since you spent so much time perfecting the editors? In a game like “Freespace 2”, this has giving the game a great longevity, and I would love to see that happen with Starlancer.

ER : We will not release the editor with the game, but it is likely we will allow people to download the editor later from our web site.


From Chat event with Erin Roberts, April 2000...


GoleX : Hi! Many pilots have found the game to have a low replay value after completing the single player. Any ideas on how this may be improved when the game is released?

Erin Roberts : There are different paths, which you can play. Also you should go back and play in multiplayer Deathmatch and co-operative. Also we are going to release a mission editor .


ElectricalBrain : Can we eventually play the Coalition?

ER : Not in Starlancer, but we have some plans for later mission packs and games.


OK, well that's the mission editor that I was talking about. Incidentally, there are links to those two interviews ON THIS SITE!!! ... Not trying to make a big deal about it, but I took the trouble to check my facts before making that post - I don't appreciate being told I'm wrong by someone who clearly hasn't made the same effort.


So far as SL not selling well, I'm sure that it was a huge factor in Microsoft/Digital Anvil/whoever deciding not to release any expansions - which is ironic because almost everyone I know loves the game - why not, it still looks good even now, 3 years on. But I'm the only person I know that bought it, because most of my mates just wouldn't spend £30 on a game that can be completed in two days, whether it's got multiplayer options or not. If there was more of it, or the ability to generate your own campaigns, they might well have sold a few more! Still, we'll never know...

Post Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:16 pm

The guy working on the editor isn't from DA but from Warthog.
Unfortunately, I don't remember his name (Paul Hugh??) but he was doing it in his spare time and, apparently, he had too much work with new projects to finish it for public release...
We used to receive some news from him before, we even had received screenshots of the editor but we haven't heard anything from him for a year or so...

Post Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:05 pm

redeye, I like your idea with a tip.

Do you know if there is a bar where I can bribe someone to increase my rep at MS/DA?

Post Mon Apr 21, 2003 6:59 pm

to increase your reputation whit M$ you can best start shooting Lunix and/or Mac ships.

Stop reading this signature, and do something usefull, like playing Freelancer.

Post Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:03 pm

LOL, good idea for a small developer. A hidden base or something where you could pay your 'tip' via pay pal and it guarenteed you a pre release demo of the next version or something. The 'tip' money could go towards dev costs.

Post Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:48 pm

Someone oughta make a Microsoft faction that pays LOTS for missions, and a Macintosh faction that pays you very little (I earn more money a year than Steve Jobs does, and I'm unemployed!). Microsoft ships will be expensive, yet rushed out and somewhat buggy. Macintosh ships will be sleek and cool looking, yet will have little under the hood. The X-Box fighter will be equipped with a "PC screwover missile" that will make game developers scrap PC game projects with high potential and make them for consoles instead, with extremely dissapointing results (Obi-Wan, anyone?). That's my idea. Macintosh ships will be even more expensive, yet perform poorly, and you'll have to wait years for guns and thrusters to be ported to your ship, and by the time they are, they'll be obselete. The most powerful ships will be the Alienware Motherships. They'll be faster than Flash on crystal meth, and pack more punch that Hulk. Alienware's main enemy will be Falcon Northwest, who will add an extra zero to the price of your ship if you want a paintjob on it.

`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`


Rogue Squadron: The True Force in the Galaxy[!

Post Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:17 pm

Dr Gonzo, that's a great post, with the right tone.



Edited by - Mercenary on 21-04-2003 22:17:54

Post Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:23 pm

@Dr. Gonzo

Did you forget this small bit of news that came out AFTER your quotes from the news archive? Chris Roberts info Do you think that maybe that had something to do with the whole mission editor fiasco and since Erin Roberts efforts we're being directed to Brute Force? I really don't think you can take a quote and hold people to it when such drastic changes took place ofter the said date of the quote. It not exactly taking a quote out of context...but pretty darn close.

Besides, Starlancer did not sell very well...if a mission editor was put out it would be for a very small group of dedicated individuals. Do you think MS would be involved with such a small number of people? And Wharthog has long moved on to bigger and better things. Bottom line...don't count on a mission editor for a game that is long toothed and has many gray hairs by now.

Rob "Stinger" Lordier
Moderator - Lancers Reactor
Creator Privateer FAQ
no good deed will ever go unpunished

Post Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:27 pm

Hey Mr Moderator, is there any chance if we can have an official "Suggestions for patch, or add-on" thread? and have it made as a sticky? You know, just for suggestions and comments about what players liked, and what they didn't like so much, and what they would like to see in the game that was missing from the retail version that could be addressed in a patch or add-on?

pretty please?

Post Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:19 pm

I think I remember reading somewhere that usually Ms doesn't release patches for their games.
Though, I don't know if this is true, as I usually don't buy anything Ms made, except SL & FL and their OS'es

Edited by - El_Tigre on 27-04-2003 22:21:19

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 2:22 am

I believe Shadowbane has been in production way longer then Freelancer. too bad Shadowbane isnt half the game Freelancer is. shadowbane sucks.

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