I don't know about you, but I like the look of the Defender, and I want to be able to fly it during the whole game. Therefore you'd need to be able to buy better armor to make it still viable. You'd also need to be able to buy hardpoint upgrades, and even new hardpoints in order for it to compete with the highest-level fighters out there. This would remove the "Every high-level person flies an Eagle, Sabre, Titan or sometimes Hammerhead" problem.

Multiplayer avatar customization would be nice, as well as the ability to meet other players in bars. i.e. if you and any number of other players are on the same base, their avatar will be placed in one of the NPC positions.

Ship trading would be cool, where players can swap ships (only while on bases, see above). This way selling TItans or whatever could become a viable business. Also, if you sell a ship to a base (in MP) it stays there until another player buys it, same with comoddities.

In addition to the aforementioned random mission types, recon/infiltration missions, where you just have to scout a heavily guarded area. Infiltration would be similar, except your rep with the enemy faction is temporarily hacked so that unless they scan your cargo, they will think you're friendly. The objective would be to dock at a base and buy some sort of special item or something like that. Upon mission completion or failure, your rep would return to normal.

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world:
those who understand binary, and those who don't.

My 2 cents (maybe 12 ) to improvements proposition.
(first off: sorry my english)

NEW/OLD IDEA of SHIPBUILDING and something more

1. We have (or could have) 4 types of mission:
- trade/transport
- find/reconaissance
- kill/catch somebody/gain something by destroing ship
- escort/defend

I think, it is easy to dedicate hulls for each type of mission. Freighter is good for transport, light fighter for reconaissance, heavy fighter (why not just fighter? for escort and finally very heavy fighter (just HF?) for kill. Of course we can use freighter to kill, but it should be much harder.

2. Description of ship type should have:
- weight of hull
- space to use (for modules)
- max numbers of weapon pods (important for graphic)
- points of armor
- level of technology
- price

Each type has his own shape.

3. Types of modules
Every ship should have the brigde (integral with live support system) not counted in space to use.

Player could choose other modules from groups:
- second bridge
- reactor (giving energy for equipment but not engine and thrusters)
- sun batteries (give extra energy - connected with energy of star light)
- emergency batteries (used usually in battles; first for shield, second for equipment)
- computer (better allows to use more sophisticated equipment; never better than hull level of tech; easier targeting)
- sensors (better could give wide range of view and easier targeting)

- system engines (connected with speed; too weak not allows to land on planet)
- thrusters (connected with manoeuvres)
- tank for H-Fuel
(maybe system gate device for HUGE ships? for only one?)

- cargo and passenger modules (some commodities could be transpored by high tech modules, some passenger need high class modules)
- tractor beam (better have wider range)
- escape pod (automatic, after crash goes to the nearest base/planet with not hostile people; better has wider range)

- shields
- ECM + ECCM (ECM helps to avoid shots and missiles, ECCM helps to avoid enemy ECM)
- countermeasure device
- cloacking device and camouflage

- weapon pods
- mine dropper

Every module has:
- volume (counted in space used)
- weight
- energy consumption (constant/in use)
- price
- special abilities, for example dammage for weapons

Most modules use constant amount of energy. Weapons and special equipment need constant energy (to be ready) and much more for use. Pilot could turn on and off all modules.

After crushing the shield and armor ship stay alive. Every next shot can destroy random module. After destroying the bridge (bridges), pilot is dead and his ship is ready to loot by tractor beam (every not shooted module could be get from space). Exception: if he had escape pod, ship stays ready to loot, but pilot can be saved.

It is possibles (and sometimes highly recommended) to buy more than one engine, cargo module, turret etc.

Volume of weapon pods is counted in overall used space of ship hull.

4. Weight
...of ship is defined as: hull+modules+cargo commodities (passengers weight is not important).
Weight of ship defines the acceleration (not speed!) and manoeuvres. Max speed can be upgreaded by new engines, manoeuvres by new thrusters.
It is possible to land on planet with weak engine. Problem is to start with this engine.
Planets with heavy gravity could be problematic to start from.

5. Prices and avaibility
... are connected with tech level. Level 2 module and ship hull should be 4 times more expensive and harder to find then level 1 module and ship. Level 3 module should be 9 times more expensive and harder to find then level 1 etc.
Of course power of modules and ships have to raise in different way. Level 2 module should be 50% more expensive then level 1.

Idea of prices and avaibility is almost the same in Freelancer. I love reputation factor in buying modules - great work DA. But I hate unrealistic limit of level of player. What is player level in Freelaner space? I think reputation, price and avaibility is enough for game.

6. Weapons
We can install normal platform or turret with projectile weapons, missiles, torpedos, beam weapons (higher level gives more power counted as: fire rate x damage).

Turrets should be twice expensive then normal weapons platform, shooting forward. Each turret should fire in every direction.

Beam weapons needs no ammunition, but consume a lot of energy.
Procectile weapons needs cheap ammo and average amount of energy.
Missiles/torpedos launchers needs expensive ammo, but small amount of energy.

Beam weapons could be programmed for:
- short shots
- normal shots
- hard shots (the biggest stream of energy giving the nicest damage - but cost the energy from reactor)

Procectiles weapons shots small, normal and big burst. Launcher - 1,2 or 3 rockets or torpedos. Ammunition for procectile and missile lauchers can have different damage (for example: shield executing).
In fight pilot can reprogram all weapons (for projectile it takes 0,5 second to change ammo, for launcher - 1 second).

Of course all types of weapons has to be more balanced. In Freelancer missiles are useless.

7. Small improvements
Programming of ship computer (option):
- automatic using tractor beam
- automatic dropping flare (countermeasure)
- automatic start rescue pod when situation is critical
- automatic keeping the next waypoint
- automatic targeting the nearest hostile ship/base/platform (when nothing is marked)
- automatic getting the emergency batteries for shields and/or weapons
- automatic dropping cargo for escape/rising ability of manoeuvres
- automatic not shooting with chosen weapon when target has no shields

A lot of this programs above should be useful for Freelancer, even without NEW/OLD IDEA of SHIPBUILDING.

best regards

For every complicated problem there is a simple solution - and it is wrong.

Edited by - uksiu on 25-03-2003 23:06:05

-Varied speed levels, espescially Cruise speed
perhaps add a engine slot similar to the way thrusters are added perhaps add a variable as well to directly make light fighters inherently faster than freighters

-MP Cloaking and Detection Devices - similar to thruster items
Cloak reduces your detectable range (doesn't make you invisible) and Detection increases your Detection range Have a counter effect on a incremental scale, a weak cloak and a weak detector will work marginally, but a strong cloak and strong detect will cancel each other out.

-Varied ships(more for an expansion) Currently there are 3 ship types for all practical purposes. LF HF and Freighter...
Perhaps -
Space Bike... Extreme speed, no cargo, little armour, weak shield
variants...

Liberty Police Bike 1 Forward Gun Mount, 1 Cruise Disruptor (5) ammo
Civilian Cruiser 1 Forward Gun Mount, 1 CM slot (10) ammo(fastest ship)
L.H. Blockade Runner 1 Forward Gun Mount, 10 Cargo spaces

Dual Hull Traders... Cross Between Freighter and LIght Fighter, average between two for cargo space 40's-60's, increased maneuverability and speed,
more limitations on weapon slots (due to the divided thrusters wake)
variants...

Kusari Catamaran 4 turrets, no CM, no mines, no torpedoes, fastest Trader Class lowest capactiy

Bretonian Mole 1 high lvl gun, 2 med guns largest cargo, slower no CM,M,Torp

Curacan(sp) Vista - moderate between above 2 except can drop CM's


Specialized Task Ships ... extra abilities not available to other ships

Rheinland Towmotor... heavy armour + shields, weak weapons, tractor capable of pulling a group ship, when ship is tractored it gains the Towmotors shields

DSE Repair Junker.... moderate armour shields weapons, mounts 3 items(weapon effects) - Hull Sealant sprayer(repairs "Hull Damage", Shield Capacitor Rod (repairs shields), and a Delocker arm (in case you lock your keys inside * *

IMG Hotspot... mediocore combatant, specialized radiation shielding making ship extremely resistant to Dark Matter Clouds, Solar Corona Effect. Decent Armour (enough to resist mines) increased cargo load for mining purposes


Escape Pod Pls, and banks on capital planets so you can stash a cash % and items in case you buy the farm

Very cool ideas but these will probably not be for an expack, maybe for FL 2 or something like that. It sounds like a lot of work. ill put them in the file, because apparently DA needs a bit of imagination influx, did a crappy job on equipment variety and what you can do with ships. Just made bigger ships, only different in class of guns/armor/shield. Basically you just fly around till youre bored to death.

My 2cents?

1)I've gotten a Sabre class ship (all legit) with a level 8 graviton shield, and I'm in-league with every pirate and lowlife in the Freelancer galaxy. I recently flew past a capital ship in the Bretonian sector and got fired upon. I was shocked when their MASSIVE energy weapons did next to no damage to my shields. Shouldn't a battleship truly be a fearsome weapon, that would make you avoid certain nav points based on your alignment?

2) New missions: Each faction should have relevant missions, ie trading missions, cargo runs for the Trade factions, Police factions get patrol routes where they need to scan ships for contraband, etc.

3) The ability to purchase a battleship or your own base, and outfit it. This would need to be tremendously expensive, but having figured out a couple of really good trade runs I can make an insane amount of money in very little time. Once you've got your own base you should be able to purchase multiple ships, each for different missions types etc. How many people wouldn't go out and get as many ships as possible and outfit them to the max?

4) More/different ship upgrades. I hate the idea that ALL ships have a maximum thrust speed, and a maximum Cruise speed. This is shocking. I really want to be able to customise my ship beyond armament and shields. Wherez the different reactors and engine upgrades? How about an option to sacrfice a gun/turret for an extra thruster or maneuvering engine?

5) Deep, involved missions, that require you go more than one or two trade jumps to locate a 'bad guy'. For example: Your mission is to track down a ship, it was last seen going through x jump gate, so you go through that jump gate, and then you have to access the Trade lane logs of ships that have passed through and locate your suspect using some really bounty hunter skills. Also the remuneration for missions can at times be very high, I'd say too high.

Everyone seems to have great ideas for improving Freelancer, while I'm here I'll put in my comments for an xpak:

Combat/Flight
- Combat is the most important part of Freelancer. I think it would be very neat if there could be various "tactical manuveurs" accessed via hotkeys. A player would be able to select several each time they buy a ship or attain higher skill level, etc. The purpose of these tactical manuveurs would be to escape missiles, lasers, etc by simply touching a hotkey and having the ship performing a special move that would be impossible with the mouse, dodging the missile or whatever in the process

- Using commodities for strategic and tactical purposes. An example would be releasing some units of scrap metal or something to act as chaff for missiles (although countermeasures are already used, the scrap metal idea would be cool) Another idea would be releasing a gas cloud (terraforming gases, H-Fuel, etc.), then igniting it in space to create a deadly explosion that would damage nearby ships.

- Maybe some new ship classes? Stealth ships and cloaking devices would be cool. Imagine being undetectable to most enemies for a short period of time by invoking a cloaking device on your ship. This would drain your power/afterburner fuel, so the player couldn't do it infinitely.

- More diverse missions. It would be cool to:
- Escort rich businessmen by taking them in your ship
- Offer protection to trade transports
- Transport important goods from one place to another, while having pirates or whoever chase you along the way, and receiving a commission for getting the goods safely to destination
- Guarding remote bases from enemy attacks for a short period of time

Story for Xpak
- I rather enjoyed the story for Freelancer, but it was missing something. ( perhaps a little more action between Trent and Juni ). If DA does decide to release an xpak, it would be cool to have 2 seperate stories concerning a character from different factions in the universe. ( Leading a storyline with a bounty hunter or pirate as the main character or as a pilot in the navy, for instance. ) Of course, you would be able to select which story you get to play as, offering some replay value.

- Interactive decisions, in conversations. For example, the player could be offered with a list of choices with the NPC they are interacting with. Depending on how they reply, the result would be different.

- Definitely being able to skin your own ship. That would be totally sweet. Perhaps a ship editor is a possibility?

Multiplayer
- Everyone seems to want to be able to command a battleship or base. Here is an idea:
1. A player would be able to purchase either a base or battleship, which would act as their own private "base" on the server. Here they could rest while their ship regenerates from damage. Perhaps some opportunity for clans to own stations + battleships? Would they be able to be destroyed?

Just food for thought. Keep up with the great ideas in this thread.

On the Cloaking Device issue, here's what I'd like to see.

1.While Cloaked You're sheilds are deactivated or at half power while the cloak is in effect. You can not fire any type of energy based weapon. (Missiles or mines would be O.K.) Cruise engine should be unavailable. Use of the thruster should be visible. Certain EMP missile types (Wasp, Hornet, Neutralizer) should disrupt a cloak. Some major play balancing and testing would need to be implemented before this item could be available.

"His last thought is wry. Not bad for a dead man." Moon Knight Vol.1 #1 (1980)

I am one of those people who is massivly dissapointed in FL, because it is so two dimensional in the character interation dept.

I would love to see additional character interaction. I am still astounded at the limited number of voices, conversations and comments that the game uses. Surely it couldn't be too hard to widen these out a bit? Why not use a voice altering program to at least make some of the comment sound like they are from different people.

Following on from this, I would like to see a real single player option available, that didn't railroad you into the "optional" missions.

I was also dissappointed by the trade possibilities. I would love to see more trader craft. I imagined them as being more like the bombers of WWII, that steer like pigs, tend to be slow, but can take massive damage and still keep on going. As it is they get shot out of the sky without a chance.

In regards to the PvP thing, I reckon the best solution is to allow individual players to determine the sorts of player levels and ships that can attack them.

Other things have been already said, but I'll repeat

Different speeds and performance for different ships,
More and different missions,
Dynamic trade options,
Customisable ships,

Heck, maybe just what they promised us on the box would be good...

i don't have that much of a problem with anything in FL, the only addition I would like to see are

1.Destroyable respawing house fleets/capships to waste in MP with your mates

2.Being able to upgrade a ship along its current lines, ie upgrading weapons class and shields class maybe a little armour but not making a patriot into a titan and not giving a LF 10 weapons mounts

3.More variety of missions (good examples have already been stated)

4.A constantly larger growing universe, with official universe expansion patches including community submissions

thats it, I don't want pilotable capships, buyable bases etc as it defeats the purpose of the game which is being a freelancer. All I feel the game needs is new elements introduced over time to increase its life, and slightly more ability customise your ship.

One more thing Xaanix.

Wouldn't it be cool if a convoy actually "thanked you" for sticking your neck out and helping them when they're under attack? You've just taken off from a station when you see this helpless transport on fire in front of you. Rouges surround her moving in for the kill, when you and your level (?) guns shredd the attacking wing to pieces. You take some damage but you've survived. Then as if nothing happens, the fat wounded transport jumps on the trade lane and is never seen again. WHAT? NO THANK YOU?

In the game, Independence War 2: Edge of Chaos(a surprisingly good and overlooked game...with absolutely THE best Babylon 5 Mods in history...rambling I know) ships would send out distress signals when they were attacked by pirates/aliens/etc. Anyways, you'd go help them and they thanked you for it.

Sounds simple and all, but why not expand on this idea? How bout have the distressed transport/fighter/station dump a few thousand credits in your account? Offer you information? Transfer to you weapons/comodities etc, in appreciation?

oh and....GET SOME STINKIN' contraband in this game!!! Whoever said this game was Privateer lite hit the bullseye. This is EXACTLY like a watered down version of Privateer...but it still is a good one. And with some tweaks, mods and imagination...this game would easily be THE best space sim/space arcade game/point and click shooter-etc. out there.

If any of this is something someone has already talked about I appoligize for sounding like a n00b. (wait...I AM a n00b!! Doh!!)

See my suggestions at the bottom of this page here, sorry, I already posted them in another update thread.

BASIC CONCEPTS for MP improvements:

- We need fluctuating prices on trades
- There needs to be more threats on the trade lanes
- pirates need to work together, like any organization does

But see the post for further details.

Edited by - defaultuser on 28-03-2003 07:15:38

My #1 problem with FL is lack of player interation. I don't go online to fight with the AI by myself, but this seems to be the most common event on any server. Half the reason is the universe is so expansive that few players are ever in the same system, never mind being in a local in which they might interact. I haven't spent a lot of time hopping servers, but the highest player load I've seen is around 30. If you quadruple that, it's less than three players per system. I don't think it feasable (or desirable) to have hundreds of players per server to populate Sirius, nor to reduce the number of systems. The easy answer is "You ought to look at more servers." or "You need to go back to school and learn to count," and I might. If, however, my impressions are correct:
1) Establish blocs of factions. The only real conflict right now is pirate(terrorist, outlaw)/everyone else. That's ok, but they're not very consolidated blocs.
2) Missions ought to be directed into particular areas of conflict, so players who are taking missions from oposite blocs might come in contact. Leeds, for instance, might be one point between mollies and police, and in particular areas around jumpholes or something might be the target areas for a number of missions for both sides.
- Eliminate that thing which, when you're on a mission, makes everyone you're not being paid to kill neutral. If I see any factions I don't like I usually kill 'em all anyway.

Just a note on the theroy behind these requests we're directing to Microsoft or DA or whoever. If we can mod it, why should DA pay a programmer to do it?

~Cynicism Inc.

""Just a note on the theroy behind these requests we're directing to Microsoft or DA or whoever. If we can mod it, why should DA pay a programmer to do it?""

I paid 60 bucks for this, why should i waste my time trying to fix it, when there are people who get paid to FIX it? If i got it for free and they made it for us for free, yah then i wont complain.

Just wanted to throw in some more ideas:

Commodities
- More drugs + more contraband! Yes, it would be totally cool to have more drugs to smuggle, besides just the boring cardamine. It would be cool if only one or two planets could control the market for a specific drug, then you could smuggle it to different parts of the system. Other contraband might include genetic enhancements or organs which would fetch a large price on the black market.

- Perhaps the player could "create" their own commodities by taking different raw materials (commodities) and depending on their skill level they could combine these base commodities to create a more expensive commodity.

Misc
- Don't know if anyone here has played Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, it had a storyline similar to Freelancer, Earth sending people to populate a different universe. Anyway, in the expansion for Alpha Centauri, it had aliens coming into the Centauri system. Do you feel that if DA were to create an xpak, they should include aliens with cool, strange ships and new technology? Maybe a little more diversity in the universe?

Everyone has great ideas, the destroyable bases + battleships and dynamic economy is a must.

And Xannix, I totally agree that if I pay the money I shouldn't have to mod to get what I want. Too many mods can spoil a game.