**Tutorial** - Speed and Handling

Tue May 13, 2003 11:12 pm by Phantomwolf

Thought I would drop this nugget in here for you guys

Here is how I see these figures working in game.

Steering Torque is the amount of force applied to the centerline of the craft to make it turn; Angular Drag is the resistance to that force. Rotational Inertia, simply put, is the amount of initial resistance to moving the centerline on both the start and end of a turn. Kind of like why a car plows down at the nose when you brake hard. The Inertia controls how snappy or mushy the craft handles in flight.

High Torque = better
Low Drag = better
Low Inertia = better

The three sets of numbers apply to what I like to call "zones". Draw a bull’s-eye on the screen; the inner zone is the first set of figures from each row, etc. The larger the number (Torque-Drag) the more force is applied to the movement in the corresponding zone.

I would hazzard a guess that these figures are thousandths of a degree per second. If you take one of the first numbers shown: 50,000, and divide it by 1000, you get 50 degrees per second. Then subtract the 40 dps your left with a turn rate of 10 dps, which looks and feels about right in game to me.

I have listed the heavy and very heavy fighter stats here from the shiparch.ini file for reference.

(The Defender would have a 10 dps first and second zone with an 89 dps final outer zone if my guess is correct.)

Defender
steering_torque = 50000.000000, 50000.000000, 230000.000000
angular_drag = 40000.000000, 40000.000000, 141000.000000
rotation_inertia = 8400.000000, 8400.000000, 8400.000000

Anubis
steering_torque = 43000.000000, 43000.000000, 230000.000000
angular_drag = 41000.000000, 41000.000000, 141000.000000
rotation_inertia = 8400.000000, 8400.000000, 8400.000000

Stiletto
steering_torque = 43000.000000, 43000.000000, 230000.000000
angular_drag = 41000.000000, 41000.000000, 141000.000000
rotation_inertia = 8400.000000, 8400.000000, 8400.000000

Sabre
steering_torque = 43000.000000, 43000.000000, 63000.000000
angular_drag = 41000.000000, 41000.000000, 41000.000000
rotation_inertia = 8400.000000, 8400.000000, 2400.000000

Falcon
steering_torque = 55000.000000, 55000.000000, 48000.000000
angular_drag = 41000.000000, 41000.000000, 35000.000000
rotation_inertia = 8400.000000, 8400.000000, 1000.000000

Eagle
steering_torque = 55000.000000, 55000.000000, 48000.000000
angular_drag = 41000.000000, 41000.000000, 35000.000000
rotation_inertia = 8400.000000, 8400.000000, 1000.000000

Centurion
steering_torque = 43000.000000, 43000.000000, 230000.000000
angular_drag = 41000.000000, 41000.000000, 141000.000000
rotation_inertia = 8400.000000, 8400.000000, 8400.000000

Titan
steering_torque = 43000.000000, 43000.000000, 143000.000000
angular_drag = 41000.000000, 41000.000000, 141000.000000
rotation_inertia = 8400.000000, 8400.000000, 8400.000000

Wolfhound
steering_torque = 43000.000000, 43000.000000, 230000.000000
angular_drag = 41000.000000, 41000.000000, 141000.000000
rotation_inertia = 8400.000000, 8400.000000, 8400.000000

Barracuda
steering_torque = 55000.000000, 55000.000000, 230000.000000
angular_drag = 41000.000000, 41000.000000, 141000.000000
rotation_inertia = 8400.000000, 8400.000000, 8400.000000

Hammerhead
steering_torque = 55000.000000, 55000.000000, 143000.000000
angular_drag = 41000.000000, 41000.000000, 141000.000000
rotation_inertia = 8400.000000, 8400.000000, 8400.000000

Valkyrie
steering_torque = 43000.000000, 43000.000000, 230000.000000
angular_drag = 41000.000000, 41000.000000, 141000.000000
rotation_inertia = 8400.000000, 8400.000000, 8400.000000

Dragon I
steering_torque = 43000.000000, 43000.000000, 230000.000000
angular_drag = 41000.000000, 41000.000000, 141000.000000
rotation_inertia = 8400.000000, 8400.000000, 8400.000000

Crusader
steering_torque = 43000.000000, 43000.000000, 230000.000000
angular_drag = 41000.000000, 41000.000000, 141000.000000
rotation_inertia = 8400.000000, 8400.000000, 8400.000000

Edited by - Phantomwolf on 14-05-2003 00:23:02

Tue May 13, 2003 11:36 pm by Phantomwolf

just thought of this, it is also possible the zones I describe above could be blended into a curve effect in game. You need three points of reference to plot a curve if my math is sound here. So the 89 dps would be screen edge, and the max rate at which the defender could turn its centerline on its z axis. That would make it pretty easy to compare all the craft if you figured out the min and max turning circle for each ship as a figure of speed.

Wed May 14, 2003 11:50 am by Craith

Are you sure about the zones?
I messed around with my ships today, and as far as I can tell the numbers indicate rotation speed around each of the ships axis

UP/DOWN, LEFT/RIGHT, ROLL

I'm pretty sure about steering_torque, haven't tried the other values very much.

Craith

--------------------------
Cheating is for losers
Modding is for fun

Wed May 14, 2003 1:26 pm by Phantomwolf

hmmmm, I was thinking of only one plane, it very well could be three, since the first two match in every case this could be pitch and yaw. That makes a bit more sense.

Mon May 26, 2003 8:20 pm by LimeCordial

i'm a total noob at editing freelancer so excuse me if this is really thick of me, but how do i actually change the .cmp file and exctly what do i need to do to change these manuverability factors? the thing is, i installed the reynen mod but i want to change the manuverability of the ships back to how they were originally - i dont really like how the ships feel laggy. how can i do this?

i would also like to make the gunboats a bit more useable instead of simply being flying iron blocks.

any help would be appreciated.

Mon Jun 16, 2003 1:22 pm by Gung_Ho

I've been playing around with capital ships, and tweaking the handling stats a tad.

One thing I haven't been able to figure out is the effect you get when you are hit by a ship ramming yours. Simply put, you spin like a top. This occurs with even default values, which is odd, considering the NPC ships using the same stats don't budge an inch when you ram them. Has anyone figured out anything regarding this?

I initially figured that if I cranked my torque way up and then compensated with a higher rotational inertia, it should make the cap ship harder to spin, while at the same time making it able to overcome it's own inertia, but it doesn't seem to have the desired effect, especially considering the stats for those values are sky-high in the first place.

Mon Jun 16, 2003 7:14 pm by Victor

Hey, for capships you can jack up the drag to help a bit with the spinning, but it still spins. The weird thing is that if you are stopped and they hit you you don't even budge in most cases.

A few important notes for all engines...

1. The true steering performance is dependent on the engine's force, if the engine force is significantly lower than your inertia ratings the thing slides all over when you try to turn or stop. This is why you can edit the force and linear drag for the engines. All you need to do is make sure the force is enough to make it steer the way you want, then divide the engine force by the desired speed to figure the linear drag. For example, if you're editing the engine on a battleship and you need 400000 force to steer properly and you want it to have a top speed of 80 m/s you just take 400000/80 to find your linear drag needs to be 5000.

2. The engine's linear drag also effects how much speed is gained by useing thrusters. So, if you have a small fighter than you want to move 80m/s but go twice as fast with the thrusters you can cut it's linear drag in half, to 300, figure out the new force needed with linear drag * desired speed (300 * 80) and you need 24000 force. But, you'll also notice thet the ship won't handle as well as before when you're turning, accelerating and stopping. The opposite effect can be acheived by increasing the force and linear drag resulting in thrusters that are less effective for the ship. This will also have the effect of improved steering.

Basically, just remember that if you change one aspect, such as the engine speed, you'll probably also need to make adjustments to other areas, namely steering inertia.

Kind of hard for me to explain, but once you mess around with it a bit it all starts to make sense.

Edited by - Victor on 17-06-2003 09:38:33

Tue Jun 17, 2003 4:02 am by Gung_Ho

Ok, here we go. I did a little testing with these three values, and these are my results:

Steering Torque definately effects both left-right and up-down. The two are not independent, and I can confirm the bulls-eye effect spoken of. Setting a massive value for the third entry will cause your ship to turn very fast when your mouse is near the edge of the screen.

The other two, Angular drag, and rotational inertia left me a little confused at first. Why would they code in a value that reduces the steering torque value? What is the point of that? Well, I think I have figured that out. Please bear in mind that this is all supposition from a little data sheet I made.

The three values work in concert. Increasing all 3 values by a multiple of 10000 has virtually no noticable effect I can discern. I'm sure there must be a result, but I didn't notice it as far as handling is concerned. The proportion of the three values seems to be most important, and they seem to operate by proportion, perhaps magnitude, not by subtraction or addition. eg, having a steering torque value of 3000 and an angular drag of 2500 will be far less responsive than a ST value of 510 and an AD of 10. In the first case the ST value is proportionately close to the value of AD, but in the second case it is 51 times greater.

Steering torque seems to be just that: The ability of the vehicle to steer, both pitch and yaw. The three values seem to be on a curve as was suggested earlier. The higher the value, the more steering power the ship has. We already knew this part.

Rotational Inertia is the tendancy of the ship to continue rotating (in all 3 different axis). Setting a very low value proportionately to the Angular Drag value will cause the ship to become as solid as a rock, moving very little in response to weapons fire or impact. It also causes the steering to be more precise and less spongy; turns feel more snappy than smooth. A very high value will cause your ship to be inclined to spin like a top with every slight impact. The difference in the three following values accounts for how long (or how far?) the spin will continue before being checked. Setting the first value high, but the second two low will cause your ship to rock with every impact, but check it's motion quickly after deviating 10 degrees or so. Setting the last value high but the first two low will cause the ship to be stable, but an extremely large impact will cause it to spin chaotically. I am wondering if perhaps this is related to the Surface_hit_effects values in Shiparch.ini? In any case, playing with the RI value will certianly make steering more effective as well. Lowering this value seems to be about 1/2 as effective at increasing steering ability as raising the ST value itself.

Angular drag seems to be the ruler for the other two. In general, changing this setting will change the proportion of both of the others. Raise this value, and you get a lower proportional Steering torque and rotational inertia. I believe I have also noticed, however, a tendancy for a ship with low angular drag to continue drifting (when in engine kill mode) for a lengthy time.

Now don't get me wrong. I am sure that the three (ST, AD and RI) are not simply a proportion, as there would be no need for that. The overall magnitude of the three MUST be related to something else as well. I'm just not sure what from my tests. Anyone have any comments?

Tue Jun 17, 2003 4:53 pm by Victor

I don't see this bullseye you are referring to, if I set the toque like this:

steering_torque = 1000, 48000, 48000

I can turn left and right just fine but I have almost no pitch control. Leading me to believe that it is in fact Pitch, Yaw and Roll. Similar, appropriate effects can bee seen on each axis.

I think you're on the right track with the magnitude though, just remember to include the engine force when you're trying to make the adjustments. A low relative engine force will result in "slip" during flight, most noticable at cruise speeds, and an increase in the time it takes to accelerate and deaccelerate. From my own testing the engine force is most important when compared to the inertia settings. And since inertia and drag can both be used to make ship feel and act "big" this explains why the AI capital ships and transports have massive values in here and massive engine force settings even though they all also have high linear drag and low top speeds.

The two settings that appear to not use any other values but still have a big impact on performance are Mass and nudge_force. From what I can tell, nudge_force is used when you collide with a movable object to determine who moves who, mass seems to be used in the same calculation. The collision effects are screwey though and sometimes yield unexpected results, such as a small transport making a battleship spin wildly, if even only for a short time. It's almost as if the developers missed something in figuring collisions bewteen two moving objects.

Edited by - Victor on 17-06-2003 18:04:13

Thu Jun 19, 2003 10:39 am by Kenshin Himura

Hmmm so what about individual cruise speeds ie one engine has 300 for Cruise max other has 700 max, and so on

If you want to taste the ground feel free to attack me.

Thu Jul 24, 2003 6:33 pm by Gung_Ho

Is there another thread or tutorial of some kind with information on this? I feel like we have our finger on how the system works, but have yet to clearly describe each value. I think most of us could get a ship to handle just like we wanted, but for my part at least, it takes a little fooling around, and some wasted time.

And also:
(I'm sorry Victor, I didn't understand your original interpitation. Yes, I see now what you are saying, that the three values are yaw pitch and roll. I had originally thought you meant rotational intertia, steering torque etc were yaw, pitch and roll. :p I really should have read it twice)

Thu Jul 24, 2003 7:48 pm by Caid

MightyMidget, to change cruising speed, edit constants.ini in main data folder. In EngineEquipConsts section add on the end CRUISING_SPEED = 600 (maximum is 999, I think) statement. It will show you always only 300, but you will go faster, that's for sure.

Für Rheinland!

Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:59 pm by archades

i cannot seem to edit much of this game
i've set my crusader to 3500 hold size and that works good and all, but my attempts on cruise speed are useless

constants.ini as follows

[EngineEquipConsts
CRUISING_SPEED = 800
CRUISE_DISRUPT_TIME = 5
MAX_DELTA_FX_THROTTLE = 0.250000
THROTTLE_STEADY_TIME = 0.500000
THROTTLE_ATTEN_MOD_RANGE = 8.000000
DELTA_THROTTLE_ATTEN_MOD_CHANGING = 8.000000
DELTA_THROTTLE_ATTEN_MOD_STEADY = -1.000000
CRUISE_STEADY_TIME = 1.000000
DELTA_CRUISE_ATTEN_MOD_STEADY = -1.000000
CRUISE_ATTEN_MOD_RANGE = 8.000000

[PhySysConsts
MATERIAL_FRICTION = 0.100000
MATERIAL_ELASTICITY = 0.900000
DEFAULT_LINEAR_DAMPING = 0.500000
DEFAULT_ANGULAR_DAMPING = 0.200000, 0.200000, 0.200000 ANOM_LIMITS_MAX_VELOCITY =
ANOM_LIMITS_MAX_VELOCITY = 30000

yet there is no speed difference when i alter either anom limits, or cruising_speed

i know that it wont shw over 300 but i feel no difference, the targets take just as long to get to in whatever setting
any idea's?

Mon Jul 28, 2003 11:11 pm by archades

forget it i found the problem

i was using the constants.ini in data/ships

dont i feel the fool

this rocks thanks dudes

Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:52 pm by bennivb

Adding a CRUISING_SPEED = 800 line below [EngineEquipConsts doesn't seem to make any difference to CRUISING_SPEED = 200. Anything else I have to change to change the cruise speed?
Well, THX in any case

Maybe it has sth to do with the tng-mod i'm using?

Edited by - bennivb on 02-09-2003 23:03:38

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